You’re going to cut and grind the edge?
Gunite should have been left a little low and it gets built up to level with mortar.
Gunite should have been left a little low and it gets built up to level with mortar.
30 May 2024 Big Day Today - Bigger Day Tomorrow! Plaster Time!!
- Thread starter setsailsoon
- Start date
- Oct 25, 2015
- 5,319
- Pool Size
- 25000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool RJ-60 Plus
Yes, right now it's level all around. I can build up with mortar or if we need to slope a lot we can cut it. But I have to control the entire pool as close as possible to be the same. On this pool we want the look that there is no drop into the pool. Water is flat and all the way to the top. To get this look without flooding the paver deck we have a small gutter around (2"wide X3"deep). There will be a small flow all around into the gutters. To "encourage" the flow over the infinity wall we have floor returns pointed straight up inside the pool along the infinity edge.
The edge construct is the biggest challenge and I don't think we could have done it without the pool fill test before plaster and tile suggestion from Alan and you.
Chris
- Oct 25, 2015
- 5,319
- Pool Size
- 25000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool RJ-60 Plus
09 March Update - Temp sprinkler system
Folks,
Finally close to a break and a little lucky with sprinklers to get full coverage. Zone 6 is just behind the pool on the lake side and it's in tact. I though for sure it would be destroyed in the dig. 3 of the heads cover the west side so all I need is a little bit on the east side. I did that with a temp zone hooked up to a line that was cut during the dig. It only took one monster Orbit head that covers 52' to get the other side. I've got some final adjustments to make on the heads then I'll be good to soak the concrete twice daily for at least a week. That should improve the strength dramatically.
Chris
One of my old Zone 6 heads getting the far end. Other two need to be adjusted. New temp line hooked up to my old zone 8. That's a monster head that does 52' by itself.
I got pretty lucky with the tie in location for the new temp run
Folks,
Finally close to a break and a little lucky with sprinklers to get full coverage. Zone 6 is just behind the pool on the lake side and it's in tact. I though for sure it would be destroyed in the dig. 3 of the heads cover the west side so all I need is a little bit on the east side. I did that with a temp zone hooked up to a line that was cut during the dig. It only took one monster Orbit head that covers 52' to get the other side. I've got some final adjustments to make on the heads then I'll be good to soak the concrete twice daily for at least a week. That should improve the strength dramatically.
Chris
One of my old Zone 6 heads getting the far end. Other two need to be adjusted. New temp line hooked up to my old zone 8. That's a monster head that does 52' by itself.
I got pretty lucky with the tie in location for the new temp run
I dug one of my cut ends a couple feet back into the untouched yard, then buried it with a paver stone near the surface so it would be easy to find at fill time.
The area got raised a bit with backfill and a ground rod found the paver on the 3rd or 4th stab.
Were these questions ever answered? I have the exact same questions, can't find the answers anywhere! Thanks
Plaster crews typically use a “ hot batch “ of plaster mix with a very low water content so it dries faster.
See post #480
Material across the infinity edge should be tile, this tile is not intended to be ground down but removed and the sub surface ground down to achieve the proper level.
The back side of the infinity edge could be staggered with a rock surface and that would create the most white noise but has its own unique shape of the catch basin.
Level control in the catch basin has a lot of contributing factors that must be considered in order to achieve the desired level of water (water in transit, free board, bather surge, and evaporation) along with an overflow system.
See post #480
Material across the infinity edge should be tile, this tile is not intended to be ground down but removed and the sub surface ground down to achieve the proper level.
The back side of the infinity edge could be staggered with a rock surface and that would create the most white noise but has its own unique shape of the catch basin.
Level control in the catch basin has a lot of contributing factors that must be considered in order to achieve the desired level of water (water in transit, free board, bather surge, and evaporation) along with an overflow system.
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- Oct 25, 2015
- 5,319
- Pool Size
- 25000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool RJ-60 Plus
Yes, here you go:
- 've read a lot about different materials for sealing pipe penetrations in the wall and floor. Do you have a favorite or things to avoid? No specific brand but most crews dig out around the pipe and than fill with cement adhesive. They dug out around all of my penetrations inside the pool
- What techniques are best to assure level across the infinity edge? Best info I have found was provided by a PB on here. Fill with water before you begin the plaster job to give final elevations across the top. This way you make fine adjustments with tile mortar not a grinder.
- What materials work best for tile across the infinity edge? I'd like to use a material that has color consistency through the tile so if there is any minor grinding it does not remove the glaze. I'd much prefer to get it perfect and not need any grinding but it seems all pool builds I've watched in progress end up doing some grinding to perfect the over-flow especially in the corners for square edges? Best information I found on this is don't use glass or the small size tiles that have flexible backing. I plan to use standard 6" tile or plaster.
- The back side of my infinity wall is planned to have a rough cedar shingle layered style using porcelain tile to break up flow. Half of what my wife likes about the edge is the white noise it makes. Do you have a better way that you like? Same as above.
- What level control for the basin to you have the best performance from? I'm planning to have two large pumps that use a simple level control that starts one pump first then if level still rises it kicks the other on. They will have flow capacity of 80 gpm each. Pool size is ~25000 gal. I got a lot of help on this. Detailed hydraulics calcs indicated my design didn't really have enough flow. So I increased flow to ~260 gpm max so I increased the pump size to 5 hp. Control will be with micro switches placed in a stand pipe to adjust pump speed from low to med to high. I'll also have an independent shut down at high/high level.
I hope this is helpful.
Chris
- Oct 25, 2015
- 5,319
- Pool Size
- 25000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool RJ-60 Plus
Not much to do at the pool today. Completed some fill and compaction around the outside edges. Took advantage of this down time to get my tfp 100 refill kit on order while they're on sale at TF test kits. Hopefully it won't be too many weeks before all needed again! I'm hoping about 5 weeks..
Chris
Chris
- Oct 25, 2015
- 5,319
- Pool Size
- 25000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool RJ-60 Plus
22 Mar 2024 Fill and Compact Complete
Folks,
We made some good progress with fill, compact and preliminary grading last week. Concrete has been kept damp-wet the whole time with my temp sprinkler and the concrete looks to be in good shape. I do have a small issue I'd like your input on. There are a couple of places where temp rods and nails were in place to support walls that were constructed after the initial gunite shoot. These were supposed to be removed but were not. So now they're protruding. The rods are grade 30 #3 rebar and I'm planning to have them cut, ground below surface and painted with rust proof paint. The others are galvanized 6" timber nails used to support the double mat rebar to hold it off the plywood wall framing when the gunite was shot. Might be able to twist and pull them out and if not will just cut and grind/paint as the rebar. Any thoughts/suggestions? Photo's below show the protruding rods/nails. Remainder are the shell after fill and compaction... Pretty neat that my sub listened and added the rebar protectors for the fence support. I didn't even have to remind him.
Chris
Stand off nail on infinity wall
Rebar temp support for spa separator wall
Pool Overview Photos post fill and compact
Folks,
We made some good progress with fill, compact and preliminary grading last week. Concrete has been kept damp-wet the whole time with my temp sprinkler and the concrete looks to be in good shape. I do have a small issue I'd like your input on. There are a couple of places where temp rods and nails were in place to support walls that were constructed after the initial gunite shoot. These were supposed to be removed but were not. So now they're protruding. The rods are grade 30 #3 rebar and I'm planning to have them cut, ground below surface and painted with rust proof paint. The others are galvanized 6" timber nails used to support the double mat rebar to hold it off the plywood wall framing when the gunite was shot. Might be able to twist and pull them out and if not will just cut and grind/paint as the rebar. Any thoughts/suggestions? Photo's below show the protruding rods/nails. Remainder are the shell after fill and compaction... Pretty neat that my sub listened and added the rebar protectors for the fence support. I didn't even have to remind him.
Chris
Stand off nail on infinity wall
Rebar temp support for spa separator wall
Pool Overview Photos post fill and compact
Is the stand off nail on the inside wall(pool side) or the spillway side?
The rebar appears to be on the top of the bond beam, this poses a less likely problem once cut and treated as you explained.
The rebar appears to be on the top of the bond beam, this poses a less likely problem once cut and treated as you explained.
- Oct 25, 2015
- 5,319
- Pool Size
- 25000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool RJ-60 Plus
The stand off nail is outside on the wall facing the basin not inside the pool. Thanks on the rebar. Yes it's on the bond beam but was not connected to the rebar mat, only added to provide support for the temp framing used to shoot the spa/pool separation wall.
Thanks for the quick reply!
Chris
- Oct 25, 2015
- 5,319
- Pool Size
- 25000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool RJ-60 Plus
Folks,
There's another OB in Martin County FL that I've been PMing with about my pool build. He thought the info I provided for one of his questions was very helpful so we agreed I can post it here in a more public venue. Here's the question:
"We do not have NG so LP is the only choice for fuel. Changing gears for a minute...I just spent the afternoon with 2 sales people from 2 different companies that install Generac generators, and they both told me different things regarding setbacks for the tanks and Genny. If you don't mind, where did you install the 1,000 gal tank and Generator? Being in Palm City, you go to Martin County for permits etc., so I'm very curious on the specs and setbacks. Also, what company did you use? I'm trying to coordinate both digs or installs to minimize all the mess, etc."
Here's the answer:
"Sure, I'd be happy to share my experience. And boy this is a can of worms. Here's what I learned doing the house, generator (twice including my previous house in Stuart):
I always feel like I get more help from experts here than I provide to others. So this is a way I can "pay it forward" a little and I hope it's helpful.
Chris
There's another OB in Martin County FL that I've been PMing with about my pool build. He thought the info I provided for one of his questions was very helpful so we agreed I can post it here in a more public venue. Here's the question:
"We do not have NG so LP is the only choice for fuel. Changing gears for a minute...I just spent the afternoon with 2 sales people from 2 different companies that install Generac generators, and they both told me different things regarding setbacks for the tanks and Genny. If you don't mind, where did you install the 1,000 gal tank and Generator? Being in Palm City, you go to Martin County for permits etc., so I'm very curious on the specs and setbacks. Also, what company did you use? I'm trying to coordinate both digs or installs to minimize all the mess, etc."
Here's the answer:
"Sure, I'd be happy to share my experience. And boy this is a can of worms. Here's what I learned doing the house, generator (twice including my previous house in Stuart):
- Much like pool margins, generator installers are making a bundle! Worth it if you don't know how to select and manage subs since we think a genset is mandatory in Florida. But if you are planning to do a pool or house build you can save up to 40% doing the genset OB.
- Setbacks are very misunderstood by generator installers. Martin County requires 10' setback on sides of the house but specifically excludes generators from this requirement. I looked into this in detail because I was very close on one side. Only had 2" to spare. In some cases your HOA or property has covenants that are more restrictive so check them as well.
- In general you'll save money the closer you can locate to the power meter.
- There are two ways to get your propane tank. One is to buy it yourself and the other way is to "rent" from a propane company like Como. I chose the former and bought the tank (including installation) from Florida Gas. If you rent the tank you are locked into their supply. Como has a great reputation and great prices most of the time as best I can tell. My concern was locking in to one supplier and then let's say the owner sells out eventually. This happens with small businesses and the cost was pretty reasonable (I think less than $2K but let me check on that). There are other suppliers but I was at the tail end of the supply chain BS from Covid and they were the only ones that had a 1000 gal tank plus their price was still reasonable. FG was my best deal but they are also very busy and very small so you'll have to really bird dog them to get your job done on schedule.
- I found that a 22KW Generac cost $13.5K-$15.5K from an installer. OB cost was $9K. All you have to do is buy the genset at one of the discount online places or HD when they have a sale and hire a gas contractor and an electrical installer. This saves you $4K plus! I only had 2 inspections. You can save a little more by doing the permit yourself. I did this and the hardest part was the load list calculation which is really trivial. I can send you my spreadsheet for the calc that Alan (ajw22) helped me with.
- Installers will tout the "extended warranty" they offer as a great reason to go with them. I think this must help them sell a lot of business but for the $4K difference you can buy a complete replacement genset! And probably several engines or generator ends. Not worth it to me.
- OB approach does take more time to bug subs to make sure they schedule you and show up on time but it's just not that hard. If you have them do their own permits this creates an additional interface and you end up spending more time. I would just do the permit myself. Great training for your pool OB permit. You can go online to the Building Department and use their portal to do all your submissions. MC is one of the best permitting organizations I've worked with and I've worked with a LOT of them across MS, LA, and TX. Just remember you do need to take some time to learn how to use their system. If you go this route I can let you know what I learned. Start by setting up an account here. They have some training material on their website.
- On tank location Martin County doesn't have any rules and I don't believe setbacks even matter. But it was easy for me to avoid the issue in Cobblestone. This community is a little weird where wells are mostly in the back and septic is in the front. So on one side of the house I have my septic system and on the other I have my tank. You will need to comply with American Gas Association (AGA) code which isn't all that hard. Your gas contractor will take care of this.
- I wouldn't worry about coordinating the digs. The pool excavation will be a mess for quite a while. The tank was 2 hr and a day for an inspection then burried. You can get them to cut your sod and put it back when you're done. If you put the tank and the pool in the back close by each other you'll need to coordinate closely. But I didn't want to get between the tank seller and his excavation sub. In Florida Gas' situation they install themselves anyway.
- You're going to need a surveyor. Check on prices, tell them what your project entails and they will know the permit requirements. Don't think any surveying was needed for the tank but there was a formboard survey for the pool. I used Betsy Lindsey. They're not the cheapest but I had some property corner issues and I'm glad I used them.
- You're also going to need a silt fence. Rent a small trencher and hire a handyman. Buy the fencing for $45/100' at HD. It will take 2 hours or less. There are plenty of video's.
- Last but not least, get your excavation contractor and tank supplier to call their 800-dig service before you dig anything. It's easier for them to do this since they have an account established. Have them send you a text proving the lot was marked by them.
- Get GL, workman's comp for all contractors with you listed as "named insured". All licensed contractors can provide this free and quick with a request to their agent."
I always feel like I get more help from experts here than I provide to others. So this is a way I can "pay it forward" a little and I hope it's helpful.
Chris
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It sure was weird repeatedly being on the receiving end for the build.
It was really nice also, to have that help from the folks I already trusted greatly.
Davegnh
Well-known member
- Jul 31, 2021
- 200
- Pool Size
- 11000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
Wow and thought my year+ pool build in 2021 was an ordeal. Never thought I'd have to pick up pool equipment in the bad side of town at 6 am and pay in cash ...... Can't wait to see the money shot.
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- Oct 25, 2015
- 5,319
- Pool Size
- 25000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool RJ-60 Plus
29 March 2024 Update: The Big Plaster Question: What is the current thinking on Best?
Folks,
I've got a couple weeks remaining for piping, electrical/automation, equipment, tile, and some final footers for the enclosure. Now is the time to make final decision on plaster so I can have them here just at the right time. Seems like my choice is still gonna be gem-type like Florida Stucco Hawaiian Blue or Pebbletec version of a similar color. Haven't gotten pricing from Pebbletec yet. Previous posts seem to be split between Pebbletec is clearly better to not really worth it. Can you all please let me know if there's been any recent updates on this?
Chris
Folks,
I've got a couple weeks remaining for piping, electrical/automation, equipment, tile, and some final footers for the enclosure. Now is the time to make final decision on plaster so I can have them here just at the right time. Seems like my choice is still gonna be gem-type like Florida Stucco Hawaiian Blue or Pebbletec version of a similar color. Haven't gotten pricing from Pebbletec yet. Previous posts seem to be split between Pebbletec is clearly better to not really worth it. Can you all please let me know if there's been any recent updates on this?
Chris
- Oct 25, 2015
- 5,319
- Pool Size
- 25000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool RJ-60 Plus
Folks,
One other little tid-bit I learned with the steel and forming... There were several areas inside the form that got a little over-excavated from cave-ins in my very sandy soil. It's hard to avoid this but you can get some labor to fill porous sand bags (HD had them for me) and fill in most of this area. If you don't you'll be filling in with gunite and this is costly. Gunite contractors allow for this in their estimate but you can get a refund if you use less than the estimate. Of course you need to leave room for the design thickness all around but in my case it saved me several yards so I got a little over $1000 back. Not often you get money back these days so well worth the effort!
Chris
One other little tid-bit I learned with the steel and forming... There were several areas inside the form that got a little over-excavated from cave-ins in my very sandy soil. It's hard to avoid this but you can get some labor to fill porous sand bags (HD had them for me) and fill in most of this area. If you don't you'll be filling in with gunite and this is costly. Gunite contractors allow for this in their estimate but you can get a refund if you use less than the estimate. Of course you need to leave room for the design thickness all around but in my case it saved me several yards so I got a little over $1000 back. Not often you get money back these days so well worth the effort!
Chris
- Oct 25, 2015
- 5,319
- Pool Size
- 25000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool RJ-60 Plus
I've got a list of tips from you that have been extremely helpful. Thank you!!