Inadvertent SLAM

[Peteparker]

Hello to all.

Long story short, after the pool store and the pool guy both failed me, I turned to the internet and found you.

At this point, we had tried green to clean a week ago and a copper based algaecide early this week and saw absolutely no change in the color and intensity of the green. So I started anger-shocking. First with Calcium Hypochlorite, and the with potassium monopersulfate. Seemed to 'break up' the CC line the store said, but the change was barely noticeable.

Then I found this place and started converting. I am about half a day into a SLAM and here are my current results:

ALK 120
PH 7.5
FC between 10 and 15
CC either 0 or 0.5 (No difference between FC and TC)
HRD 300
CYA 20 (but I added to 30 using pool math)


My FC hasn't really changed so far and the green is still there. I'm worried that the previous Calcium Hypochlorite additions may have added to the CYA before I did, and now my true CYA is much higher than I think it is, which would be why FC of even 15 wouldn't be doing much, I believe.

Should I soldier on staying between 12 and 15 FC or should I push higher?

I have a 81-330 Leslie's Complete Poolcare DPD test kit with a TF-100 ordered.

Thanks for the help!



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[zea3]

Hi, welcome to TFP! Calcium hypochlorite will not raise your CYA, however it will raise your calcium level. You should stop using the cal-hypo or your calcium will become unmanageable. Right now I am more concerned about the copper algaecide. Is this the first time you have used it? Have the pool store check the copper level in your water.

Is the water clear green, like normal pool water except it is green, or is it a cloudy green where you can't see the floor of the pool?

 

[Peteparker]

Thanks!

Duh, I should have keyed into that when I typed it, lol. Sorry.

It is the first time I've used it. The pool guy told me to use a LOT, and I used exactly what he said despite what the label said. It is cloudy green, like mint. I thought that was a mix of the algae dying and turning white, while some still lived...

Oh and it was very foamy for several hours.


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[zea3]

I would go tomorrow and have the copper level checked. If it is high then you would need to drain and replace some water to get rid of it. Otherwise you will have to deal with the high copper levels on top of the algae problem.

When you have high copper levels you have to be careful to maintain a low pH (7.0-7.2), a sequestrant level, and low FC (2ppm or less) to prevent the copper from dropping out of solution. When copper drops out of solution the water turns green (clear green if no algae is present). It will stain light colored hair and pool surfaces. You will have to add sequestrant on a regular basis to keep it at the appropriate levels. It is much easier to drain the water and refill with copper free water if that choice is available to you.

 

[Peteparker]

Not sure draining is really an option since we're in a vinyl liner. I could certainly work to replace water adding and removing a little at a time.

I'll definitely go to the store tomorrow and have them test the copper level.

Sounds like the pool guy really steered me wrong.

Thanks again for the advice!


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[zea3]

If you do need to drain it would be a series of partial drain/refill cycles. As long as there is not a high water table you should be safe to drain down to 1' of water in the shallow end. You are correct that you never want to drain a vinyl pool completely.

 

[Peteparker]

I didn't realize the store tests copper for you in their standard group. I had a full test done this morning, 48 hours after adding the algaecide, and it showed 0 ppm.

Should I still have it done again?

FC holding steady. No change since the first post.


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[Peteparker]

I believe I am close to passing the OCLT test, with the only thing left being that the pool is still cloudy green.

No change in FC or CC, still about 12 and about 0.5 (my test kit only sees by 5's).

Here's a picture for good measure.

Again, my main question is, if nothing seems to be changing, can I up my FC level to see if something different happens?

 

[Mr Bruce]

If your CYA is really 30, more than 12 FC is not going to "help" more.

 

[Peteparker]

I'm only guessing it's 30. The pool store said it was 20 and I added enough CYA to get to 30 yesterday. My own test kit only shows down to 30 and it looks a lot like 0 to me.

 

[domct203]

This is where you apply a good dose of POP (Pool Owner Patience).

You are well on your way to clear water..... Stay at it. Keep that FC at shock level and brush, brush, brush!

Dom

 

[Jezza]

You need to trust your own testing- this is a case of where you will get tangled up mixing pool store testing results with your own. CYA testing is definitely one they tend to get wrong. If you can still see the dot when you fill the tube it can be considered quite low. Perhaps try and bring CYA up in increments of 10. Wait 24 hours before retesting to confirm.

 

[DKT113]

Yep, brushing right now will really help you turn the corner.

Once that test kit arrives you will get your "official" numbers and then be able to really dial things in.

Keep on keeping on. At this point just monitor FC as if your CYA is 30 and top off accordingly.

I really do think brushing helps and then too a bit of patience as sometimes a sand filter can take a bit longer to clear the "fines" Make sure you are watching your gauge on that filter, backwash when it increases I believe it's 20 or 25%. Now you just added additional CYA so if you can avoid that backwash for a bit of time that will allow it to properly disperse in the waters.

You are going to be amazed once you get the TF100 in hand and start tightening the screws on this.

Also please try and refrain from using Algaecide; your main weaponry in this fight is the test kit & liquid chlorine, anything additional you add only prolongs everything.

Best of Luck!

 

[Pool Tool]

An OCLT is really just done to verify the existence of algae or not. The test is moot since your pool is green. I think you need to brush, a lot, and keep the FC up. I agree your CYA could be higher - if you added enough to get to 30 yesterday and there was probably "some" in it before. I would Slam as if it were 40 and target FC of 16 until you can retest CYA in several days and what you added shows up. I am assuming you added granular CYA and hopefully you hung it in a sock and didn't dump it in the skimmer?

 

[Peteparker]

Exactly right. A sock on the end of a coat hanger to stay in the return flow, squeezing routinely.

I mentioned the copper concern to the store this morning and they double checked, finding 1 ppm.

If there is copper in there, do I stop everything else and concentrate on that, returning to a SLAM after its gone? I understand the risks to ignoring it and charging forward being likely staining and green hair on blondes. Is 1 ppm as big of a problem as it seems?


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[Peteparker]

Here's the pool store results, verifying mine for the most part: (They have my volume wrong).

There are a few store recommended treatments mentioned, Metal Free for one, and I've only read drain and replace here. Are the store option for this just as bad as the other store treatments?


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[zea3]

Sequestrants can work to keep the metal in solution. The problem is if you let the sequestrant level get to low and/or pH get to high (over 7.5) the metal will fall out of solution and that's when it becomes a headache. You also have to be careful adding chlorine and keep it on the low end of the acceptable range. The problem with that is that it would be easy to let the FC drop too low for a couple of days and have an algae bloom to deal with. As far as I know there is no test for sequestrant levels so you have to stay on top of it and dose the pool regularly.

This is why I would do a series of drain and refill cycles to get rid of the copper. People with well water that has a lot of iron really don't have much choice, they have to deal with metals if they want to swim in clear water. 99% of the time when a pool has high copper levels it was added to the water by a product. They can drain and refill and not worry about dealing with metals. Since you are doing a slam now, you need to consider if dealing with the copper is going to be worth your time and money, or if it would be better to drain and refill now and be able to maintain the pool without sequestrants and keeping a close watch on FC and pH. I would hate for you to complete a slam and then decide a month later that keeping the copper in solution is more than you want to deal with and you end up draining the pool anyway.

Which ever way you decide to go we will help you get there. I just want you to have enough information so you know what you may be dealing with in the future.

 

[Peteparker]

That's some really great information. I really appreciate it and the options you're giving me.

What we really want is to swim in it 24 hours from now during the kids' birthday party. Is there any chance of that?

I can see both leaving the water as is and watching pH and adding sequestration for 24 to 48 hours if that would sustain things or starting to drain and refill now in the hopes of getting copper, algae, and chlorine back down to safe levels before tomorrow. Which option gives me a better shot at our goal?


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[zea3]

Sorry I didn't get to your question yesterday. If you cannot see the bottom well enough to see your feet then I would not have anyone swim in that water. You won't be able to see if someone is in distress and goes under.

 

[Peteparker]

No problem.

What we have now is a blue cloudy pool with definite copper in it. (My daughter's highlights turned green).

It is my understanding that keeping the SLAM going until the cloudiness goes away is the last part of that process, but I also need to start draining and refilling to dilute the copper as much as possible.

Is it okay to be doing both at the same time? I saw one line in pool school that said pH testing isn't reliable during a SLAM, and if that's true, I won't have an accurate measurement of what's happening from the water additions.


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