Become a TFP Supporter Pool Math Forum Rules Pool School
Results 1 to 13 of 13

Thread: In-ground, long-running green & cloudy problem

  1. Back To Top    #1

    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    OTTAWA
    Posts
    6

    In-ground, long-running green & cloudy problem

    Context: bought a house in Ontario, took possession in April. Have been battling the pool since early May, although the first couple of weeks were mostly focused on getting all the hardware working (which it now does). Pool went green (as it tends to when you don't have testing equipment and let the chlorine dip) with the big spike in temperatures in May, and hasn't been restored yet. Notes: new O-ring in the multivalve, new sand in the filter (completely emptied and replaced sand, as it was pretty cruddy). Cleaned out impeller, checked all couplings. I only get ~ 7 PSI when running all 3 outtake returns, and ~ 14 PSI when running only 1 of the 3. I expect the low numbers are because of the low-HP pump.

    Equipment: 20x40 pool, 10' deep end (don't know exact volume, need to finish measuring some deep end pieces). 3/4HP Hayward pump, sand filter (unfortunately).

    I've been reading lots of threads on this forum, learning and focusing. Before I discovered the forums, I had tried pool supply stores, all of which told me different things, and all of which sold me lovely products which may or may not have helped/harmed (one store was ok-ish, and suggested a decent flocculant to get the sediment out, which sorta-kinda helps/helped).

    Things that went into the pool over the last 4 weeks: lots and lots and lots of chlorine. Some pH+/- once I started testing, just to stabilize levels. Flocculant. Stabilizer.

    Last week I really got into reading these forums, and bit the bullet and ordered a proper test kit. I'm in Ontario, so it's a giant PITA. I ended up with a Taylor 2005C rather than a 2006, unfortunately, and I'm not sure I want to spend another $120+shipping just to get the FAS-DPD. While I was waiting for the kit to arrive, I did a "guess and pray" SLAM for five days. I balanced the pH to 7.3, raised the FC to >10, and kept it there while the filter and my robot went 24/7. After the kit arrived I tested CYA, and found it to be basically 0, but the SLAM should still have worked because I topped up the chlorine every 2 hours (except at night), testing the FC every time to make sure it stayed high. Overnight during these 5 days the FC would stay above 10 -- it was likely dropping somewhat, but it never dropped below 10 overnight. At the end of this process, when I turn off the filter & pump, and leave it alone for a few hours, the water goes clear with brown cloudy sludge at the bottom (probably from residual flocculant precipitating stuff out). You can see pictures of what this looks like below, from last night. However, if I vacuum at the sludge, half the cloud goes back into the water, and then the pool is non-blue and cloudy again. Rinse, repeat, over and over. It's gone down significantly over time (the total volume of brown sludge), but overnight some always reappears.

    Pictures of the pool from last night:

    IMG_20160615_191851.jpgIMG_20160616_082742.jpgAttachment 50289IMG_20160616_082756.jpg

    My readings last night (when the kit arrived):

    FC: 5
    TC: 5
    Br: 10
    pH: 7.4
    TA: 190
    CH: 180
    CYA: ~ 0

    Since the CYA was low, I took 200g of stablizer and put it in a sock and left it in front of the return jet with the pump on overnight. This morning I squeezed it and finished putting the CYA into the water. I'll test it tonight to see what levels it's started rising to, and keep testing for the next 72 hours until I know whether or not I've gotten it up to >30.

    I've been keeping the FC high through yesterday and today, with the filter running, and it might be a little bit clearer now than it was two days ago, but still somewhat green.

    Pictures from an hour ago:

    IMG_20160616_123922.jpgIMG_20160616_123933.jpg

    So ... advice? Is the cloudy green-shaded particulant just dead algae and crud and I just need to filter and filter and filter until it finally clears up, while keeping FC > 5 and CYA ~= 30? Or is there somehow still algae surviving? I have a decent (Polaris P945) pool robot that scrubs the bottom and sides for me, and I've been manually scrubbing the sides as well. As mentioned, I've been vacuuming quite often, but it's not terribly effective at picking up the brown cloudy stuff from the bottom, because a significant portion just disperses into the water and it all goes cloudy again.

    Further note: can't add D.E. to the sand filter, unfortunately, because ... Canada. It appears to be basically impossible to get pool-grade D.E. up here. Along with Taylor kits and all kinds of stuff. Sigh.

    My wife is pushing me to "just get a pool company to come", but I can't really see what they'll do, unless they literally bring a giant filter and vacuum the entire pool through a fine-micron filter.

  2. Back To Top    #2
    Texas Splash's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    South-Central Texas, Marion/San Antonio
    Posts
    12,966

    Re: In-ground, long-running green & cloudy problem

    Wburr, hello and welcome to TFP! I'm afraid it will be difficult to execute that "SLAM" (link below) without the FAS-DPD portion. I know you don't want to spend the $$, but there's no way of knowing if your FC is correct or high enough based on your current CYA. Also, you'll see on the SLAM page that during a SLAM, the pump should be left running 24/7. But also understand that's not to kill algae, only collect the dead stuff. The correct FC/CYA ratio is what will sanitize your water and kill the algae, hence clear the water. No need to worry about DE right now. The only time we recommend the DE to a sand filter is towards the very end of a SLAM.

    Also, please add your pool info to your signature by going to the top of the TFP web page (just under the Pool School button) and select "SETTINGS". On the next page look to the left for a menu bar that says, “MY SETTINGS” and go to "EDIT SIGNATURE" to enter your pool and equipment info there. Or you can click EDIT YOUR SIGNATURE. It will help us later. This link may also help you: Pool School - Read This BEFORE You Post.

    Nice to have you with us!
    Pat (a.k.a. Texas Splash) ~ My Pool: Viking Fiberglass; 17,888 Gal; Waterway Supreme 2-sp/2-hp pump; Hayward Ctg filter; TF-100 w/ Speed Stir
    Vital Links: POOL SCHOOL, RECOMMENDED LEVELS, RECOMMENDED CHEMICALS, Poolmath Calculator, SLAM, Chlorine/CYA CHART.
    If you enjoyed your TFP experience, please consider donating to Support TFP!

  3. Back To Top    #3

    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    OTTAWA
    Posts
    6

    Re: In-ground, long-running green & cloudy problem

    If you can suggest a way for me to get a FAS-DPD without spending another $130+, I'm all ears. Otherwise, it's stupidly annoying to get from Canada. Is there a source for just that test? I could possibly get a friend in the US to pick one up and send it to me ...

    During my "fake SLAM", where I maintained the FC > 10 at all times (the max my old strips could show), the pump & filter ran 24/7 for 5 days, and I ran the P945 a couple of times a day as well to try to pick up crud off the bottom.

    Signature updated.
    16x30' 20,000 gallon IG vinyl pool, 3/4HP Hayward pump (not 2-speed), Ranger sand filter. Polaris P945 robot. Taylor 2005C testing kit & separate FAS-DPS Test. Well water.

  4. Back To Top    #4

    TFP Guide
    Mr Bruce's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Greenville, SC
    Posts
    1,798

    Re: In-ground, long-running green & cloudy problem

    TFTestkits.net

    Sorry you have the shipping hassle.
    32K gallon Plaster - 1hp Hayward 2 speed Super Pump - Hayward S200 Sand Filter - TF100XL
    Test Kits - Pool Math - Chlorine/CYA/Target/Slam Chart

  5. Back To Top    #5

    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    OTTAWA
    Posts
    6

    Re: In-ground, long-running green & cloudy problem

    TFTestkits doesn't ship to Canada. As dozens of threads on this site have noted. Again ... Canada. Nothing is available up here.
    16x30' 20,000 gallon IG vinyl pool, 3/4HP Hayward pump (not 2-speed), Ranger sand filter. Polaris P945 robot. Taylor 2005C testing kit & separate FAS-DPS Test. Well water.

  6. Back To Top    #6

    TFP Guide
    Mr Bruce's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Greenville, SC
    Posts
    1,798

    Re: In-ground, long-running green & cloudy problem

    I know. You mentioned
    I could possibly get a friend in the US to pick one up and send it to me ...
    32K gallon Plaster - 1hp Hayward 2 speed Super Pump - Hayward S200 Sand Filter - TF100XL
    Test Kits - Pool Math - Chlorine/CYA/Target/Slam Chart

  7. Back To Top    #7


    TFP Guide

    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Quaker Hill, CT
    Posts
    1,255

    Re: In-ground, long-running green & cloudy problem

    http://www.poolcenter.com/p/taylor-f...ation-test-kit

    They ship international I don't know what they would charge you for shipping to Canada.

    - - - Updated - - -

    sorry read the fine print the test is consider hazardous material and can only be shipped in the US
    Chuck-
    15x30 Above ground, Pentair Superflo VS, 19" sand filter, TF-100 test kit
    Aqua Comfort ACT750 heat pump / 6x20 ground mount solar panel / DIY automation

    Photos of 2016 Build, Inside Your Breaker Panel, Free Copy of 2017 NEC code
    TFP is funded by member support click here to help

  8. Back To Top    #8

    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    OTTAWA
    Posts
    6

    Re: In-ground, long-running green & cloudy problem

    I'll probably do as you guys suggested, and get one of these cheaper kits delivered to a friend. It's just a huge time delay, by the time it ships to them, and they ship it to me.

    Given that I don't have one available, can I still do most of the process? I understand that the FAS-DPS allows me to see when the FC stops dropping overnight, so I know when the SLAM is done, but is there any visual indicator? As in, if SLAM works, should all the green also disappear? (see pictures, first post, to see level of green)
    16x30' 20,000 gallon IG vinyl pool, 3/4HP Hayward pump (not 2-speed), Ranger sand filter. Polaris P945 robot. Taylor 2005C testing kit & separate FAS-DPS Test. Well water.

  9. Back To Top    #9

    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Hudson, wi
    Posts
    81

    Re: In-ground, long-running green & cloudy problem

    Stock up on bleach and keep dumping it in. I found that it is much easier and faster to slam when the CYA is low (and cheaper). Previously I had kept my CYA to around 20 which was great during the slam. I also have a lot of shade and keep my pool covered when not in use so the sun wasn't eating much FC. With the current condition of your pool and the approx. size I wouldn't be surprised if you would be using 10+ gallons of 12.5% bleach per day. How much were you using when you performed your "mini slam"? I have a sand filter as well and have no problems getting everything clean by the end of the slam, don't worry about DE now, you will be doing to much backflushing during the slam.
    21,000 gallon IG with vinyl liner, Pentair sand filter, TF100 test kit, pool is about 15 years old.
    new in 2016 - Hayward SWCG with T15 cell

  10. Back To Top    #10

    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    OTTAWA
    Posts
    6

    Re: In-ground, long-running green & cloudy problem

    I used about ~5-6 gallons per day, on average? Went through six 5-gallon containers plus one 10-litre BYO containers across 5 days. Unfortunately, I have almost zero shade on the pool: by 10am it's fully in sun, and it stays that way until 6 or 7pm.

    I'll go stock up tonight and then just SLAM away. I just checked my FC levels, and they're above 40ppm at the moment, with TC around 35ppm. This is guesstimating, because I'm using the "scale by 5" method because no FAS-DPD. Still, it's high enough to be killing algae, given that my CYA levels are still low.

    Edit: the levels were off. I tested too close to the surface, and had added more liquid chlorine (12.5%) recently, so must have gotten an unmixed bit. Retesting showed levels between 15 and 20ppm. Still a bit high given the very low levels of CYA, but the CYA should be creeping up since I added a lot of stabilizer over the last couple of days to try to get it up to 30 or so.
    16x30' 20,000 gallon IG vinyl pool, 3/4HP Hayward pump (not 2-speed), Ranger sand filter. Polaris P945 robot. Taylor 2005C testing kit & separate FAS-DPS Test. Well water.

  11. Back To Top    #11

    TFP Guide
    Mr Bruce's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Greenville, SC
    Posts
    1,798

    Re: In-ground, long-running green & cloudy problem

    If your CYA is low <20 and you are actually in the 30-40 FC range, you are in SERIOUS danger of bleaching out your liner and doing damage to your equipment.
    32K gallon Plaster - 1hp Hayward 2 speed Super Pump - Hayward S200 Sand Filter - TF100XL
    Test Kits - Pool Math - Chlorine/CYA/Target/Slam Chart

  12. Back To Top    #12
    Texas Splash's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    South-Central Texas, Marion/San Antonio
    Posts
    12,966

    Re: In-ground, long-running green & cloudy problem

    Have you already tried these?
    A place that sells Taylor test kits and reagents in Canada is “Water & Ice North America Inc” in Cambridge ON.
    Commercial Swimming Pool Supply. They also have a branch in Nova Scotia. (902) 883-9120
    Also try: Aquatech Logistics at Aquatech Logistics Inc. 1-888-624-0919
    Pat (a.k.a. Texas Splash) ~ My Pool: Viking Fiberglass; 17,888 Gal; Waterway Supreme 2-sp/2-hp pump; Hayward Ctg filter; TF-100 w/ Speed Stir
    Vital Links: POOL SCHOOL, RECOMMENDED LEVELS, RECOMMENDED CHEMICALS, Poolmath Calculator, SLAM, Chlorine/CYA CHART.
    If you enjoyed your TFP experience, please consider donating to Support TFP!

  13. Back To Top    #13

    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    OTTAWA
    Posts
    6

    Re: In-ground, long-running green & cloudy problem

    I just emailed Water & Ice to see if they're willing to sell to a consumer (vs. a commercial use). A couple of places in town where I live know what FAS-DPD is, but they won't sell the powder to me: they just have it in-store for doing their own tests.

    @Bruce: I'll re-check levels in a few minutes to see if it's actually that high. I might have just grabbed some water near an unmixed chlorine patch, as I topped up the pool in mid-afternoon and the little 3/4HP pump doesn't move the water around all that quickly.

    @Bruce, update: did the test again, deep end, 18" below the surface. Using the 5:1 dilution, get a result between 15 and 20ppm. So, not 40. Thankfully. Thanks for the quick heads up and making me check up on it.
    16x30' 20,000 gallon IG vinyl pool, 3/4HP Hayward pump (not 2-speed), Ranger sand filter. Polaris P945 robot. Taylor 2005C testing kit & separate FAS-DPS Test. Well water.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •