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Thread: building the most efficient aerator

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    building the most efficient aerator

    I have built myself two PVC aeration devices that I attached to a 1/4 HP submersible pump I got from Home Depot a while back. It has a 1 1/4" male thread, on which I put a piece of female threaded pvc and then stuck a straight piece of 1 1/4" PVC up into the air. The first style is simply capped off with holes drilled into it to make a shower head style sprayer. It shoots water very far in the air and splashes everywhere. It worked to raise my pH, but I was losing too much water for my taste through evap and splashing. So I built a T on top of the PVC that spreads the water out 12" on each side and has 1/4" holes drilled in it to shoot the water directly down. In my opinion, I'm disturbing the water much more this way, but I'm not seeing the pH rise that I did with the previous setup.

    So, what's the best way to get a fast pH rise? I'm working my TA down from 175 to hopefully 60 or so. I've been working on it since Sunday and I'm only down to about 125 as of 7am this morning. I'm anxious to get home from work and test it. I'm worried it won't be much beyond 7.4 from the 7.0 I left it at, but we'll see.

    Also, if the goal is to put air into the water, would it be crazy to use a shop vac in reverse for this job instead?

    17,500 gallon IG Vinyl
    Pentair Tagelus TA60D Sand filter
    Pentair Challenger 1.5HP pump CFII N1 1.5A
    Taylor K-2006-A, Stenner 45MPHP10 auto chlorine feed

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    Texas Splash's Avatar
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    Re: building the most efficient aerator

    Why must you tease us like this about your new invention with no pics? We need pics. We don't like to read. Standing by .....
    Pat (a.k.a. Texas Splash) ~ My Pool: Viking Fiberglass; 17,888 Gal; Waterway Supreme 2-sp/2-hp pump; Hayward Ctg filter; TF-100 w/ Speed Stir
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    Re: building the most efficient aerator

    Sorry, my upload quota was exceeded and I was not anxious to set up photobucket for whatever reason, but I went ahead because a picture is worth a thousand words. The T version is blurry, but I think you get the idea. If not, I'll get a better photo when I get home.



    17,500 gallon IG Vinyl
    Pentair Tagelus TA60D Sand filter
    Pentair Challenger 1.5HP pump CFII N1 1.5A
    Taylor K-2006-A, Stenner 45MPHP10 auto chlorine feed

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    Texas Splash's Avatar
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    Re: building the most efficient aerator

    Nice



    Pat (a.k.a. Texas Splash) ~ My Pool: Viking Fiberglass; 17,888 Gal; Waterway Supreme 2-sp/2-hp pump; Hayward Ctg filter; TF-100 w/ Speed Stir
    Vital Links: POOL SCHOOL, RECOMMENDED LEVELS, RECOMMENDED CHEMICALS, Poolmath Calculator, SLAM, Chlorine/CYA CHART.
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    mikemass's Avatar
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    Re: building the most efficient aerator

    I'm surprised the T-version doesn't work better as it is much more violent of a splash. I guess the larger surface area in version A is the key.

    I must say, I like the shop vac idea too!
    25 + year pool owner. Current pool (going on 11th year) - 38K gallon in ground Gunite/White Plaster, Spillover Spa, Hayward Cartridge Filter, Hayward 450k BTU NG Heater, Hayward Goldline Aqua Logic control with T-Cell-15 Salt Water Cell, Dolphin Explorer.
    You Need: Bleach, a A Test Kit & a Bookmark to "Pool School". Now what's your question?

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    Re: building the most efficient aerator

    Mine looks more like your T-bar but i angle my spray about 45 degrees down, and added a second row of holes. I had varying success. When i had only one row of holes, it seemed to work well one night, then didn't do much, so i added the second row. It took me several days of aerating to get ph from 7.2 to 7.6 ish. I have trouble reading the pH test; my kit has gradations from 7.2 to 7.5, sometimes guessing, never certain. My aerator uses one of my return jets, not a separate pump.
    30000 gal inground vinyl liner;sand filter w/glass media, nuvo uv, TF-100 test kit; 25 years on Baquacil, converted to TFP chlorine in 2016

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    Re: building the most efficient aerator

    Quote Originally Posted by mikemass View Post
    I'm surprised the T-version doesn't work better as it is much more violent of a splash. I guess the larger surface area in version A is the key.

    I must say, I like the shop vac idea too!
    I may have been quick to judge, I should find out soon though when I get home from work. It could just be my impatience. I was thinking that the more violent splash should give me better results as well. The spray in the air looks fun, but doesn't splash as much.

    I'm going to run the shop vac in it this evening as well. I don't want to let that go over night, as that might irritate the neighbors, but it'll be interesting to see if it helps with an hour or two of running.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by pookiesunshine View Post
    Mine looks more like your T-bar but i angle my spray about 45 degrees down, and added a second row of holes. I had varying success. When i had only one row of holes, it seemed to work well one night, then didn't do much, so i added the second row. It took me several days of aerating to get ph from 7.2 to 7.6 ish. I have trouble reading the pH test; my kit has gradations from 7.2 to 7.5, sometimes guessing, never certain. My aerator uses one of my return jets, not a separate pump.
    I was thinking about adding more holes as well. Maybe I'll add another row of holes that spray a little further out. I do think the T design is better than the spraying in the air.

    I don't find pH testing as enjoyable as FC or TA. I just got me a speedstir and the measuring tool to help with those two tests, and it makes getting the proper sample size so easy I don't know how I ever did without it. The speedstir is a bonus.

    17,500 gallon IG Vinyl
    Pentair Tagelus TA60D Sand filter
    Pentair Challenger 1.5HP pump CFII N1 1.5A
    Taylor K-2006-A, Stenner 45MPHP10 auto chlorine feed

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    Re: building the most efficient aerator

    Well I got home and my pH had only risen from 7.2 to 7.4 from 8am to 5pm. So I took the T contraption down and put back my straight pipe. I think it does a better job for me due to the way I have it set up just below the surface of the water. I got water disturbance on the way out, and as it falls back down, and actually covers a bigger area.

    Here's a better picture of the T in action before I took it down.



    And I tried the shop vac idea. The challenge with that method is keeping the air hose in the water. I took my T contraption off the submersible and turned it upside down in the water, and stuck my vacuum hose in the bottom pipe. I drilled a hole through the two and ran a bolt through them to hold it all together, and then I tied a brick to the head of the T with fishing line. Shockingly, it held for as long as I was comfortable running my vacuum. I was afraid I might wear out it's motor, but also it was too loud to let run too long. It worked pretty dang well though. With this and my submersible running, I got my pH up from 7.4 at 5pm to 7.6 at 8pm. Much better than the 9 hours it took to raise the same amount with the T alone. My TA is now between 100 and 125 and I'm starting to feel like there's and end in sight. Hopefully tomorrow I'll be below 100ppm TA and can start using a larger water sample for a more accurate reading.


    17,500 gallon IG Vinyl
    Pentair Tagelus TA60D Sand filter
    Pentair Challenger 1.5HP pump CFII N1 1.5A
    Taylor K-2006-A, Stenner 45MPHP10 auto chlorine feed

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    Re: building the most efficient aerator

    The shop vac method never crossed my mind but is a great idea. There is always a way.

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    Re: building the most efficient aerator

    Quote Originally Posted by DaneCE View Post
    The shop vac method never crossed my mind but is a great idea. There is always a way.
    It was like sitting in a hot tub with an over active bubble pump. I really think it helps, but the noise compared to my submersible is definitely a problem. It kind of makes me want to find a quiet shop vac.

    Using just the straight pipe aerator, I got my pH from a flat 7 to 7.4 overnight, so I added more MA and went off to work.

    17,500 gallon IG Vinyl
    Pentair Tagelus TA60D Sand filter
    Pentair Challenger 1.5HP pump CFII N1 1.5A
    Taylor K-2006-A, Stenner 45MPHP10 auto chlorine feed

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    Re: building the most efficient aerator

    You are doing great! I like your T-spray....very well done.

    If I got the pH to 7.6, I would lower it again to 7.0. It will really speed the process.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
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    Re: building the most efficient aerator

    Quote Originally Posted by duraleigh View Post
    You are doing great! I like your T-spray....very well done.

    If I got the pH to 7.6, I would lower it again to 7.0. It will really speed the process.
    Thank you! I've got several options now, so if I have to aerate again I'll be all set!

    Thus far, that's pretty much when i've been doing. Add MA to get down to 7 flat, then aerate until it is either up to 7.6, or it's time for me to go to bed/work. An hour or so before bed time, I check the pH and adjust it down to 7. I get up in the morning, do the same, then go to work. I get home from work, test, add MA, and start the cycle all over again. I'd be lying if I said I wasn't anxious to be done, but it's not so bad.

    17,500 gallon IG Vinyl
    Pentair Tagelus TA60D Sand filter
    Pentair Challenger 1.5HP pump CFII N1 1.5A
    Taylor K-2006-A, Stenner 45MPHP10 auto chlorine feed

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    Re: building the most efficient aerator

    Could someone explain what the aeration does? How?

    Diamond Pool 20'x40' Lazy L, approx 33,000 gal vinyl liner, Hayward s244T filter, Pentair Intellichlor Ic 40( new May 2016) replaced computer pool cpsc35, inter mastic T40404R, A.O.Smith UST1152 super pump 1.5 hp, Hayward heater, not working or by-passed, Polaris 360

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    Re: building the most efficient aerator

    Quote Originally Posted by camueller View Post
    It was like sitting in a hot tub with an over active bubble pump. I really think it helps, but the noise compared to my submersible is definitely a problem. It kind of makes me want to find a quiet shop vac.

    Using just the straight pipe aerator, I got my pH from a flat 7 to 7.4 overnight, so I added more MA and went off to work.

    Adding a hose to the shop vacuum inlet port will help somewhat with the noise. Another option would be to adapt to inexpensive vinyl dryer vent hose so you could leave the vacuum much farther away or in your garage for instance.
    8.5k gallon IG pebble sheen play pool with Intellitouch control, Intellifo VF, IC 20, Rainbow tab feeder (not currently in use), Pentaire mystery cartridge filter with labels faded to the point I have no idea on the model, Intellibrite 5g LED light, Hayward Navigator. Adding IntelliPh and Crestron control next.

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    Re: building the most efficient aerator

    Quote Originally Posted by dtlight View Post
    Adding a hose to the shop vacuum inlet port will help somewhat with the noise. Another option would be to adapt to inexpensive vinyl dryer vent hose so you could leave the vacuum much farther away or in your garage for instance.
    Not a bad idea. I don't have another hose for this vac, but I may be able to rig something up.

    But the good news is I tested just a bit ago and my TA is down to 70 now...which probably explains why my pH hasn't risen much all day even with my aerator going.

    17,500 gallon IG Vinyl
    Pentair Tagelus TA60D Sand filter
    Pentair Challenger 1.5HP pump CFII N1 1.5A
    Taylor K-2006-A, Stenner 45MPHP10 auto chlorine feed

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    Re: building the most efficient aerator

    Quote Originally Posted by themadangler View Post
    Could someone explain what the aeration does? How?

    Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
    Aeration raise the pH without adding any total alkalinity.

    17,500 gallon IG Vinyl
    Pentair Tagelus TA60D Sand filter
    Pentair Challenger 1.5HP pump CFII N1 1.5A
    Taylor K-2006-A, Stenner 45MPHP10 auto chlorine feed

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    Re: building the most efficient aerator

    So aeration has less to do with 'disturbing' the water than it does with increasing the amount of air - water contact. The more surface area the water has, the more carbonic acid can be exchanged with the air. Your shop vac was blowing air into the water, so that increased the water to air contact (albeit under the surface).

    Your fountain model was shooting the water very high, so it had all that contact with air on the way up, AND the way down. Your T setup was only shooting the water straight down a short distance which although turbulent, didn't have nearly as much contact with the air. That is why it was less effective.

    If you don't want to shoot straight up because if the spray zone, consider using your T setup, but shooting it horizontally across the pool (parallel with the water's surface). That would give it more air time (but not as much as your vertical pipe). Even better if you could do a small arch with the water. Basically keep it in the air the most amount of time that you can.

    Remember, it's air contact that's important, not turbulence.

    Hopefully that makes sense. If not let me know.

    18x36 extended octogon IG Vinyl, ~ 110,000L (~29,000 gal)
    Jacuzzi FM24 Sand Filter, Hayward SuperPumpII 1hp
    Pentair Intellichlor SWG - IC-40
    TF-100 Test Kit


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    Re: building the most efficient aerator

    Quote Originally Posted by BestJoeyEver View Post
    So aeration has less to do with 'disturbing' the water than it does with increasing the amount of air - water contact. The more surface area the water has, the more carbonic acid can be exchanged with the air. Your shop vac was blowing air into the water, so that increased the water to air contact (albeit under the surface).

    Your fountain model was shooting the water very high, so it had all that contact with air on the way up, AND the way down. Your T setup was only shooting the water straight down a short distance which although turbulent, didn't have nearly as much contact with the air. That is why it was less effective.

    If you don't want to shoot straight up because if the spray zone, consider using your T setup, but shooting it horizontally across the pool (parallel with the water's surface). That would give it more air time (but not as much as your vertical pipe). Even better if you could do a small arch with the water. Basically keep it in the air the most amount of time that you can.

    Remember, it's air contact that's important, not turbulence.

    Hopefully that makes sense. If not let me know.

    Sent from my SM-G900W8 using Tapatalk
    That makes sense, and after 3 days of this, I think I've learned it pretty well My biggest problem with spraying out with my pvc setups was that my submersible pump would fall over from the pressure it generated. I need to figure out a way to keep that from happening. But for now I'm using the setup that sprays way up in the air. I'll worry about water loss later.

    I added 2 cups of MA to the pool tonight, that should knock my TA down to 60ish or less. I'm curious, once I get to my goal TA, can I just use a little borax to get the pH back up? I know I don't want to add borates to the pool just yet, but I assume it wouldn't take too terribly much to bump my ph up. I only ask because aerating is taking longer at this lower TA. Which is probably a good sign for my future, in terms of pH stability.

    17,500 gallon IG Vinyl
    Pentair Tagelus TA60D Sand filter
    Pentair Challenger 1.5HP pump CFII N1 1.5A
    Taylor K-2006-A, Stenner 45MPHP10 auto chlorine feed

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    Re: building the most efficient aerator

    Yeah I figured you would say it would fall. Over, but also knew you'd be able to figure that one out. Maybe use a piece of flex out of the pool, and build, basically, a water cannon that sits on the edge of your deck.

    Can't help you on the second part, having an swg, I've litterally NEVER had to worry about raising the Ph (yet).

    18x36 extended octogon IG Vinyl, ~ 110,000L (~29,000 gal)
    Jacuzzi FM24 Sand Filter, Hayward SuperPumpII 1hp
    Pentair Intellichlor SWG - IC-40
    TF-100 Test Kit


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