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Thread: Very happy with new TFP methodology, but using a lot of bleach

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    Very happy with new TFP methodology, but using a lot of bleach

    Just did my first test with the TF-100 kit last week and everything was pretty good but needed a little more FC according to experts on this forum and the pool calculator. (see numbers below). Based on my numbers, the experts on here told me to keep FC around 3-5ppm. For a week now, I am having to add 1.5 to 2 gallons of bleach each evening to replenish the chlorine that is lost during the day. Our pool gets used everyday with an average swimload of 10-15 people. At $3.00 a gallon for 7.84% available chlorine bleach, it seems to be more expensive than using traditional methods. I'm just wondering if there is something I'm doing wrong or if this will diminish over time. Any advice is appreciated.

    Total Chlorine = 1.5
    FC = 1ppm
    CC = .5
    PH = 7.2
    CYA = 50
    Calcium Hardness = 250
    Alkalinity = 170
    Constructed in Spring 2016, 20x40 inground vinyl liner pool; depths from 3.5 to 6.5 feet; 26,000 gallons, Pentair sand filter, Pentair two-speed Whisperflo pump, In-line chlorinator (don't use it though), 125,000 BTU Pentair Heat Pump, Coverstar Automatic Cover, TF-100 Test kit, fill pool with city water.

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    ckk81's Avatar
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    Re: Very happy with new TFP methodology, but using a lot of bleach

    If you're getting good sun and having 10+ people a day you are going to use quite a bit of chlorine. Have you run an OCLT? Pool School - Perform the Overnight FC Loss Test (OCLT)
    30K? gal (20x40, 3ft shallow to 8-9ft hopper), Vinyl IG, single speed 1HP pump, Hayward Micro Clear DE-3600 filter, Hayward Aqua Rite SWG T15 Cell, Rheem/Raypack M206A heater

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    Texas Splash's Avatar
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    Re: Very happy with new TFP methodology, but using a lot of bleach

    Just remember that chlorine is chlorine. Whether it's called bleach, liquid pool shock, or some powdered product, it has a type of sanitizer in it. Our pools need to be fed each day, whether manually via bleach or with a SWG. How much FC is required is based on the size of your pool, amount of FC loss each day, and your current CYA protecting it. Based on your tests above I see that for your CYA, your FC target should be around 6 ppm. Ideally, we like to never lose more than about 2-4 ppm of FC per day in a well-managed pool. If you are losing more than 4 ppm of FC, it may be time to run an overnight (OCLT) test. For a 26K pool, it takes about 154 ounces (1 Gal and 3 cups) of regular 8.25% bleach to raise your FC by 4 ppm. By comparison, my pool at just under 18K uses about 2.5 ppm of FC each day - about 1/2 gallon. Your pool is bigger, so a 2.5 FC loss would equate to about 3 quarts (3/4 gallon). Now the more swimmers you have, the more bacteria being eliminated. That additional stress on the water means more FC consumption - just like pushing the gas pedal down harder means more gas.

    In short, a CYA of 50 requires a, FC target or 6 (say 5-7 range) and never below 4. Anything below 4 and you allow algae to grow. When you expect a swim party, it's always good to increase FC by an additional 2 ppm or so to account for the additional stress. For your size pool, using just under a gallon each day (or a gallon with lots of swimmers) is about right. If you are sure your water is algae-free, you can increase CYA to about 60 or perhaps even 70 in the summer to help protect the FC more from the sun. But before you do that, make absolutely sure you have no algae to avoid a SLAM at a higher CYA. Does all of this make sense for you?
    Pat (a.k.a. Texas Splash) ~ My Pool: Viking Fiberglass; 17,888 Gal; Waterway Supreme 2-sp/2-hp pump; Hayward Ctg filter; TF-100 w/ Speed Stir
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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Very happy with new TFP methodology, but using a lot of bleach

    Your FC level has dropped too low for your CYA level, so it is likely that something is now growing in the pool.

    It is normal to have to add 2-4ppm of FC daily. Sounds like you are having to add 5-6ppm.

    It is possible that all the use could account for that, but given that you keep letting the FC get too low. You really should raise the FC up a good ways (10-15ppm) and do the OCLT.

    If you are expecting high use, then you should be raising the FC well above your minimum and maybe dose more afterward.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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    Re: Very happy with new TFP methodology, but using a lot of bleach

    All of this definitely makes sense and I am now a little concerned that I may have something growing in the pool. Because I am all new to this, how do I know if I have an algae issue? Is there a way to test for it?
    Constructed in Spring 2016, 20x40 inground vinyl liner pool; depths from 3.5 to 6.5 feet; 26,000 gallons, Pentair sand filter, Pentair two-speed Whisperflo pump, In-line chlorinator (don't use it though), 125,000 BTU Pentair Heat Pump, Coverstar Automatic Cover, TF-100 Test kit, fill pool with city water.

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Very happy with new TFP methodology, but using a lot of bleach

    Well, 3 different people suggested you Perform the Overnight Chlorine Loss Test, so that is probably a good place to start
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
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    Re: Very happy with new TFP methodology, but using a lot of bleach

    Quote Originally Posted by jblizzle View Post
    Well, 3 different people suggested you Perform the Overnight Chlorine Loss Test, so that is probably a good place to start
    30K? gal (20x40, 3ft shallow to 8-9ft hopper), Vinyl IG, single speed 1HP pump, Hayward Micro Clear DE-3600 filter, Hayward Aqua Rite SWG T15 Cell, Rheem/Raypack M206A heater

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    Re: Very happy with new TFP methodology, but using a lot of bleach

    Certainly, perform the OCLT. Those results are pretty definitive.

    I have a feeling you may pass the OCLT. the swimmer load you get is probably 4-5 times the average swimmer load so an FC loss of maybe 5-6 ppm daily might be very reasonable.

    You will continue to lose that much chlorine regardless of what you use to chlorinate....chlorine is chlorine.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
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    Re: Very happy with new TFP methodology, but using a lot of bleach

    Well I conducted the OCLT and found that I am not losing any chlorine over night. Basically, it sounds like our aggressive swimload, along with 95 degree days is truly eating about 5-6ppm of chlorine per day. As mentioned earlier, it seemed like I was having to use a lot of bleach to keep up (about 2 gallons a day) and so I assume this will continue unless I reduce the swimload. It is a new pool so of course the neighbors are there all the time but maybe it will slow down.

    Before using the TFP method, we were using the 3 inch chlorine pucks and it was not able to keep the chlorine to acceptable levels as well, even with the chlorinator turned all the way up. I was having to basically do a "mini-shock" each night to keep the chlorine in line. From a cost perspective, I still believe the TFP method is probably cheaper as I was using a significant amount of trichlor pucks and "shock" chlorine.

    Thanks to each of you for your advice and feedback. I will continue to monitor it and may have to ask for donations since it's about $6 a day for bleach.
    Constructed in Spring 2016, 20x40 inground vinyl liner pool; depths from 3.5 to 6.5 feet; 26,000 gallons, Pentair sand filter, Pentair two-speed Whisperflo pump, In-line chlorinator (don't use it though), 125,000 BTU Pentair Heat Pump, Coverstar Automatic Cover, TF-100 Test kit, fill pool with city water.

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    Re: Very happy with new TFP methodology, but using a lot of bleach

    You can close your cover for a bit during high sun. That will help some.
    30K? gal (20x40, 3ft shallow to 8-9ft hopper), Vinyl IG, single speed 1HP pump, Hayward Micro Clear DE-3600 filter, Hayward Aqua Rite SWG T15 Cell, Rheem/Raypack M206A heater

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    Re: Very happy with new TFP methodology, but using a lot of bleach

    Do you have a Walmart nearby? They sell 10% liquid chlorine for $2.50 a gallon. Save a little money there per gallon plus it's a higher concentration.
    Pool finished in March 2016, 25k gal, white plaster IG pool, Pentair Clean and Clear Plus Cartridge Filter, Pentair Intelliflo 2 VST Variable Speed Pump, Polaris 280 Pressure Cleaner with Pentair Booster Pump, Natural rock waterfall with Pentair Waterfall specialty pump, Spa: Mastertemp 400 High Performance Heater, TF-100 Test Kit

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    Re: Very happy with new TFP methodology, but using a lot of bleach

    watch for the higher concentrations though, thickeners are added to many to reduce splash when pouring... you don't want any with thickener

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    Mod Squad kimkats's Avatar
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    Re: Very happy with new TFP methodology, but using a lot of bleach

    Quote Originally Posted by austxsun View Post
    watch for the higher concentrations though, thickeners are added to many to reduce splash when pouring... you don't want any with thickener
    Just plain bleach..........no pretty smells or splashless like he said. It will be marked as such. The Pool Shock (liquid chlorine) is a good deal for many people.

    IF you have a pool store that sells liquid chlorine using the rented jugs check out their pricing.

    Kim
    TFP Moderator 33x52 round AG 25,600 gals Sand Filter 1.5hp Pump - 2 Speed, SLAM, Pool School, Recommended Levels, Recommended Chemicals, Pool Math, Chlorine/CYA Chart, TF-100 Test Kit

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    Re: Very happy with new TFP methodology, but using a lot of bleach

    Thanks for the heads up on the liquid chlorine. What brand is it? Do you know if there are other ingredients in it that may cause problems down the road? I wasn't sure if it includes harmful ingredients such as those in chlorine pucks.
    Constructed in Spring 2016, 20x40 inground vinyl liner pool; depths from 3.5 to 6.5 feet; 26,000 gallons, Pentair sand filter, Pentair two-speed Whisperflo pump, In-line chlorinator (don't use it though), 125,000 BTU Pentair Heat Pump, Coverstar Automatic Cover, TF-100 Test kit, fill pool with city water.

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    Re: Very happy with new TFP methodology, but using a lot of bleach

    Quote Originally Posted by dkite22 View Post
    Thanks for the heads up on the liquid chlorine. What brand is it? Do you know if there are other ingredients in it that may cause problems down the road? I wasn't sure if it includes harmful ingredients such as those in chlorine pucks.
    I don't remember the brand, but you will find it in the pool section at walmart. It will say liquid pool chlorine on the label.
    Pool finished in March 2016, 25k gal, white plaster IG pool, Pentair Clean and Clear Plus Cartridge Filter, Pentair Intelliflo 2 VST Variable Speed Pump, Polaris 280 Pressure Cleaner with Pentair Booster Pump, Natural rock waterfall with Pentair Waterfall specialty pump, Spa: Mastertemp 400 High Performance Heater, TF-100 Test Kit

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    Re: Very happy with new TFP methodology, but using a lot of bleach

    Namco sells the liquid chlorine in carboys. I use that exclusively.
    25,000 Gallons Inground, Gunite
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    Re: Very happy with new TFP methodology, but using a lot of bleach

    15,000 gallon free form Viking fiberglass pool. Hayward Star-Clear Plus C12002 cartridge filter. Hayward Swim Pure Plus T-15 SWG. Testing with TF-100 Kit. 2 speed 1.5HP Supreme pump. Dolphin Nautilus robotic cleaner

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