Didn't believe until I got pool Stored.

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S

sersee

0
May 23, 2014
192
South Jersey
Ok, so I admit. I didn't believe in you guys/gals. I am so sorry. I came here awhile back and asked some questions. I got the right answers but was very nervous about not using the chemicals that the pool stores tell me too. I went through pool school but didn't really absorb it . So I had no idea what anyone was talking about. Im not saying I didn't listen to you guys/gals at all. I found a ton of information on this site and found you all very knowledgeable . I think I just felt it was easier to go to a pool store and have them tell me what to do. I felt safer since they were the experts.... Does that make sense?


I am here to say...You were right and I was wrong. I am ready to take control of my own pool. I am buying the recommended test kit. So this year we opened our pool( my husband and I always do it ourselves). We have a swg that we just didn't understand. Our boost option never seemed to work so we just manually "shocked it" if we had a lot of people over, a storm or looked like it needed it. We opened it early this year so the algae wasn't bad. Lots of debris and worms. We cleaned it up. Was told that we needed to add a bag of salt and the chemical to make sure things don't rust. Had my levels checked and they were always somewhat good .

So we started having a problem . First we had a lot of sand come out during backwash. A lot. It happened a second time. But none of it has been going into the pool. I already posted about my adventures with that. At this time we are going to have a sand change. Then they can see if anything is broken. Im at a loss with this issue and am hoping this is the best course of action.

Then I had my water tested and was told my alkalinity was off and had to add a chemical for that. Also I wasn't showing any chlorine in my pool. We run it four hours in the morning and four at night. They told me to add another bag of salt. Came back and my chlorine still a problem so they told me I needed another bag of salt. Then I had an issue with this pool company which was in my other post (basically they never came out to do the filter ) so I moved to another company. Mainly because we don't close the pool because we are afraid to winterize it and break something .

Had my water tested and was told my chlorine was non existent and my salt levels were very low. They had us add 7 bags of salt . Was also told my ph was sky high and alkalinity is low. So the only way to fix that was to bring the ph to 0 and start over. So we had to add ph down(I think), run the system overnight to get a good filter. Then in the morning we were to add alkalinity up and run it for four hours. This was $250 later. I went back to get it tested. My salt levels were I believe 3200 so they told me I was ok there. The ph and alkalinity were now perfect but I still had zero chlorine. So they told me to buy the conditioner and put that in. So we did that. We also were told to add 4 lbs of shock. I brought back in my water yesterday and they said my chlorine was there but barely. We shocked the night before so this was concerning. So they checked for phosphates. They told me I had some but wasn't in danger yet. But that is why my chlorine is low and that I will need to add the phos free.


At this point I started looking stuff up and read that phosphates are normal and it's hard not to have any. They can come from stuff people have in there hair when they swim or anything like that. Now I do have the chlorine issue but I told my husband we need to take control and learn about this. We went online and read about our swg. Apparently you're supposed to clean the cell once in awhile. Didn't know that. Our cell had white stuff on it , so we are wondering if that is the issue. We used the wood scraper but it didn't work great. I have been reading on here about muriatic acid and/or vinegar to try. My manual says not to use acid ...so not sure about that.

But my swg manual says that we should have 4000 ppm . So maybe that is the issue? Maybe my swg requires more salt.


I came back here and went back to pool school. I printed out what I could and have learned. I learned it might be good for us to be running our system in the middle of the day instead of the morning . We have no trees so it's all day sun on our pool. I have learned what all the terms mean and understand I need to be testing my chlorine and ph level everyday. Im determined to take my pool back with your help!!


So thank you for this forum and all the experts on here. I finally realized if I just do what you say, then I will have a sparkling pool!

The one thing I am confused on is CYA. If my chlorine is burning off....then that bottle of conditioner is something that I will have to buy? i printed out the chlorine/cya chart...

Also I have a lot of white stuff floating in my pool . I had it last year and thought it was pollen. It still could be but I also heard it could be killed off algae? I think i might perform the overnight fc loss once I figure out what is going on in my pool. The chlorine concerns me. We have had our system running at 100% and I don't understand why the chlorine isn't there.
 
Don't worry we can help, but the first thing we need are good solid numbers from one of the suggested test kits, I use the TF-100, you can find the link in my signature. Also it would help if you narrow down your location to state and city, or at least region in a state it helps us know what your local climate and conditions are like and lets us give better advice. As pool advice we give can be a bit different for Florida vs Vermont, or even Arizona due to length of pool season, typical rain patterns, and even typical calcium levels in the water (the south western US tends to have VERY hard water)
 
First off, where are you located. Knowing your state helps us know your climate and many answers vary based on that.

You sure have been pool stored! Has it always been so much effort and cost to keep your pool up to snuff? And yet its not even that yet, right?
Just for comparison, I probably spend at most $50-$100 a YEAR caring for my pool. And most of that cost is testing reagent refills. So unless you're in the mood to fund the pool store owners boat you need to take charge of the responsibility for your pool's health.

Until you get a proper test kit (and I'd recommend the TF-100 XL, with a speed stir device) from TFTestkits.net, Amazon or PoolSupplyWorld.com (-if you're in the California side of the country) because you have a big pool and it needs proper testing, and at first that will be much more frequently.

We need to know:
FC
CC
pH
TA
CH
CYA

Go ahead and seek out the cheapest source for fresh high quality bleach or liquid chlorine (check the dates, often written in Julian date) and don't buy it if its older than 3 months or sitting outside in a garden center. Get it someplace that has high turnover sales. You won't be using your SWG at first until the pool is clean and sparkly. And apparently you'll need to clean that SWG up anyway. I'd go for the MA myself if its that coated with calcium scale.

Be prepared to buy some CYA (cyanuric acid, the stabilizer) if your test results show you need it. Or consider that you may need to exchange some water if yours is already too high. We won't know until you get that TF-100.

Hurry!! Summers outside and its waiting to be enjoyed!!!:splash:
 
Oops. Ok I will add that into my signature. For the record I am in NJ. I didn't have many problems when we first got it. That summer we had some algae but with chlorine and vacuuming it seemed to be ok. Last summer we opened at the end of May and it was hot! It was very very green. We were going to the first pool store and she had us put zipchlor in it , vacuum and filter . It did end up working out. When I would get the water tested, it was always perfect. So that's part of the reason I thought...Hey maybe I have a good pool store. But they got new people and with the service call needed to figure out why my filter is dumping sand during backwash...they were awful . So I switched companies and now I feel like this guy is a slick talker and has sold us more chemicals than I have ever bought. My pool is actually very sparkly. I do have some chlorine in it and we are running our filter more just to keep up with it until my test kit comes. I haven't seen it on Amazon and at pool supply I believe it says I won't get it until the 30th. So I am going too tftestkits and seeing if I can get it sooner.

Thats my only issue.. My husband is so nervous about using actual bleach. I know it's the same but I think it's hard to wrap your brain around. Especially when you spend so much money for the pool, it makes you nervous. Right now he uses the bags of shock that he mixes. My head is spinning.

Ok so CYA is just that bottle of conditioner. The pool guy had us put it in Saturday night with the 4 lbs of shock. He said its the glue . Thats why I was surprised that my chlorine levels were low(according the store). But I won't know anything until I get my kit.

My sand filter is also an issue and hoping to get that taken care of . I think at this point my only option is to try a sand change and see what that yields.
 
Even with CYA, your Chlorine levels will fall daily just not at fast. Without it, depending on how much sun, most, if not all of the chlorine can dissipate away in a matter of hours, not days. CYA slows that down. For me, I lose 2-4ppm a day (in FL) and keep it at 4-5. That means that it will be at zero in less than 2 days and that is with a CYA of about 50.

Use bleach. Follow everything here. If it does not work, go back to the old way.

"Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result is the definition of insanity"

- - - Updated - - -

Once your SWG is working, you can use that for the Chlorine but I would suggest that you take that out of the mix until you have everything down for at least a few weeks. By then you will know your pool better and can work the SWG back in. I have had my SWG running for almost 2 weeks now and am still testing daily until I feel that I have it dialed in and "stabilized" and then I may be able to cut that back a little.

- - - Updated - - -

Get the test kit and take control. Once you do that, everything will start to change for the better.
 
Great to have you on board! Hopefully for good this time!

With the "getting your head around it" aspect...Ask your husband to think about how diluted a 1/2 gallon of bleach is in a 27,000 gallon pool. The answer is - quite diluted. Just strong enough to kill algae and be absolutely harmless to humans and canines.
 
Watch out about those dry chlorine products they are either likely Dichlor which adds CYA which can build up to unmaintainable levels and can only be effectively removed through water replacement, or Cal-Hypo which adds Calcium which also can only effectively be removed through water replacement.
 
Im trying to convince him!! Haha... I think if I know what i am talking about, it will help tremendously. The CYA confuses me a bit. I understand I have to find out my numbers first. Once I find out what numbers I am supposed to be at, do you keep adding the cya? IS that the trick? Maintain the right cya number and chlorine ? So basically the only thing I may have to buy again is the cya ? (well and bleach). I have to read over everything once I get my numbers on here. It will be tough for me to understand everything at first, so I will ask mucho questions .

I definitely want to embrace my swg since I paid for it.... but I understand maybe get my pool right first. But definitely want to learn how best to run it. We were told to run out pool in the morning and at night because the chlorine will be eaten by the sun.. But I read here it may make more sense to run it in the middle of the day. Even if the sun ate all the chlorine ..it would still run at night and hopefully have it stay there until the sun shines down again??


By the way.... this girl just ordered her first Tf100 test kit...Is it sad that I am kind of excited to use it? I also ordered the magnetic stirrer from amazon...which I am even more excited to use. So then we really will get to the bottom of it.
 
Your kit will arrive you will do the tests and post the numbers.
Folks will assist you as you start the process and anytime throughout.
None of it will make sense at first, just have a little blind faith.
As you continue on all of a sudden everything will just click.
This will become second nature.
You will be able to tell by how the water feels what you need, that's how in tune you will get.
Husband will see the water and eventually celebrate the method.
You'll never see a pool with water as sparklie and healthy as yours, unless you have a TFP Neighbor.
Those "other pools" will give you the heebie-jeebies
:)

I have zero desire to swim anywhere but here and the ocean. My oldest boys use this pool and this pool only.


As a side note:
We have the best well water in the world ~ delicious.
I have 3 cats & 2 dogs
Their bowls are washed, rinsed thoroughly and dried and filled twice a day with fresh cool water.
2 of the 3 cats prefer the pool water. The 3rd one doesn't leave the back patio so her getting to the pool will never happen.
Dogs have no access to the pool so they drink the well.
The cats have been drinking the pool water for 4 or 5 years. They are happy & healthy.
I spoke to the vet because one of them drinks so much and she is so petite I wanted to make sure it was "ok" ~ it's absolutely ok and she said the pool water is probably healthier than the water that goes into the city right down the road from us.


Good Luck ~ you are going to be thrilled you made the switch!
 

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I am SO proud of you! :hug: You will be in control of you pool AND wallet once again!

Just tell your husband you are using chlorine in the pool. For some reason people accept the word chlorine instead of bleach. Even though we know it is the same. What ever works.

While you are waiting I am going to give you what I give to new pool owners.

Print these out:
Pool School - Basic Pool Care Schedule

Pool School - Recommended Levels

Bookmark these:
Pool School - Recommended Pool Chemicals

http://www.troublefreepool.com/calc.html

Pool School - ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry

Make sure to ask any and all questions you might have no matter how small! We have all been where you are at one point.

I ruined my first pool listening to the pool store :( Before we got the new one I ordered the test kit to make sure I could do it! I could and now LOVE my pool.

There are videos on how to do the tests on the site you bought it from.

I have a couple of "tricks" for the tests:

-PH-have something white to hold the PH tube in front of to help you match the colors.

-CYA-pour the mixture to the first line (100) and GLANCE in, if you can still see the the dot pour the mixture to the next line and GLANCE in, repeat until you cannot see the dot any more. We will have you round up to the next number so might as well go line to line.

This will make sense when you get the test kit LOL :testkit:

Kim:cat:
 
kimkats said:
-CYA-pour the mixture to the first line (100) and GLANCE in, if you can still see the the dot pour the mixture to the next line and GLANCE in, repeat until you cannot see the dot any more. We will have you round up to the next number so might as well go line to line.

This will make sense when you get the test kit LOL :testkit:

Kim:cat:
Click to expand...

OMG. that makes sooooo much sense why have I never thought of that?!? You're right, it has to be one full number or the next so why not just fill it by 10s each step?? 100, 90, 80, 70.... heheheheheheh
 
YIP! I KNOW! I came up with this because I was driving myself batty trying to stop right where I stopped seeing the dot.....then when I put the finding in Pool Math I would put the number rounded up...........DUH so why not just go line to line???????? Took the stress of this test away! Now it is not big deal!

Kim:cat:
 
Hi, we will be able to give more specific advice when your test kit arrives. Shipping is usually pretty quick from TF Testkits. I'm going to explain a little about the CYA/Chlorine relationship. That is the main thing you need to understand to care for your pool.

Pool stores only look at chemical values in their individual ranges, such as FC (chlorine) must be between 1-3ppm, without taking into account how other chemical values interact with each other. This is why they will say a CYA of 90 and FC of 2 are "perfect", because they both fall within the acceptable range for each value. However, CYA and Chlorine must be maintained in a proper ratio to each other. If you look at the [FC/CYA][/FC/CYA] you will see that if CYA is 90 in a manually chlorinated pool, FC of 2 is far too low and algae will form under those conditions.

Most pool store employees are not familiar with the CYA/Chlorine relationship. Pool store employees get the majority of their training from vendors and sales representatives. Vendors' and sales representatives' primary goal is to sell product, so their training is skewed to that end. Instead of explaining the CYA/Chlorine relationship, the chemical companies develop product to "fix" the problems that inevitably occur when the CYA/Chlorine relationship is ignored. They will use terms like "old" water and "chlorine lock" to describe the problem. So they sell Green to Clean, mineral systems, cal-hypo, and other concoctions that lead to problems of their own that need additional chemicals to correct. This can have you chasing your tail in no time! When you have exhausted the chemical remedies they have to offer, the advice moves to changing "old" sand (sand is thousands of years old before it ever gets to your filter) and eventually they will tell you the water is too "old" and must be exchanged to be "refreshed".

CYA and chlorine must be kept in the correct ratio. Looking at each value without thought to the other leads to problems. We try to avoid having our members drain their pools whenever possible, but sometimes it is the only solution. CYA, Calcium (CH), and metals can only be removed by draining and refilling with fresh water. Often these only require a partial drain to correct the issue.

http://www.troublefreepool.com/calc.html will show how chemicals interact with each other, and how changing some values affects other values. Look at a few threads and enter their test results into PoolMath to practice using it. Play around with it and see how the different chemicals affect each other and you will be ready to use it once your test kit arrives.

I hope this explanation helps. We do have scientific papers linked on the website that explain this is much more technical language that show our methods are based on scientific study and not just a bunch of folks with crazy ideas!
 
sersee said:
By the way.... this girl just ordered her first Tf100 test kit...Is it sad that I am kind of excited to use it? I also ordered the magnetic stirrer from amazon...which I am even more excited to use. So then we really will get to the bottom of it.
Click to expand...

The magnetic stir thing is the best!!! I found these guys last year when I moved into a house with a un kept pool, and I have never owned a pool before. They got me on track and perfect all year and opening this year was perfect!. The Magnetic stirrer is a must for me, I am not coordinated enough to spin and drop, lol. Plus I taught my wife how to test and with the stirrer she was much more "at ease" with the tests. Welcome and hope you stay for good, I know I did!
 
kimkats said:
I am SO proud of you! :hug: You will be in control of you pool AND wallet once again!

Just tell your husband you are using chlorine in the pool. For some reason people accept the word chlorine instead of bleach. Even though we know it is the same. What ever works.

While you are waiting I am going to give you what I give to new pool owners.

Print these out:
Pool School - Basic Pool Care Schedule

Pool School - Recommended Levels

Bookmark these:
Pool School - Recommended Pool Chemicals

http://www.troublefreepool.com/calc.html

Pool School - ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry

Make sure to ask any and all questions you might have no matter how small! We have all been where you are at one point.

I ruined my first pool listening to the pool store :( Before we got the new one I ordered the test kit to make sure I could do it! I could and now LOVE my pool.

There are videos on how to do the tests on the site you bought it from.

I have a couple of "tricks" for the tests:

-PH-have something white to hold the PH tube in front of to help you match the colors.

-CYA-pour the mixture to the first line (100) and GLANCE in, if you can still see the the dot pour the mixture to the next line and GLANCE in, repeat until you cannot see the dot any more. We will have you round up to the next number so might as well go line to line.

This will make sense when you get the test kit LOL :testkit:

Kim:cat:
Click to expand...


Thank so much! I had already printed out lots of the info..haha. I have my schedule , my cya/chlorine chart and all the terms because it gets confusing. I didn't have the pool calculator! That looks overwhelming...but Im sure it will make sense soon. I may ask stupid questions. Here is one...Calculating my pool gallons... I have a 20 X 40 rectangular pool. When it asks about how deep..what do you put? The deepest part? I have a 3 foot end and a six foot end. I used another calculator and told me I had 27000 gallons, but I think it's more.

I have no idea what you mean regarding the tests...but I am copying your tricks because I am sure I eventually will!!
 

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