Losing sleep over pool...

[Aquamar555]

Just purchased a home with an in-ground vinyl pool, mostly in sun all day, pool temp in the 80s, air temp in the 90s. Didn't do inspection of pool prior to purchase (1st mistake). Pool looked clean when purchased (5 /23), but within a week of owning this house, green water, no clue what I'm doing. Second mistake, hiring a pool company to maintain the pool (1x week). Thought pool company was going to do this for my $200/mo... sadly mistaken. Since then, I've been reading everything I could online, primarily on this forum but also other sites. It seems that pool people have a lot of differing opinions (e.g. replace sand? Not replace sand).

Here are the issues:
1. Pool company says I need a new multiport, sand change, and salt-cell, as well as electronic thingee (panel?) which runs filter and salt cell (don't know the name). Pool built supposedly in 2003. Salt cell (T-15) from 2003. Apparently new pump (I don't have make/model handy), according to listing agent. There is no salt in the pool. I ordered a salt cell, it is arriving in 1 week. Goal is to get the pool sanitized and balanced before putting in the salt and salt cell.

2. Relied on pool stores (2 different ones in my area) to tell me readings. Now know to buy my own test kit; got a good one today and have a few numbers from my kit and some from pool company.

3. Today:
FC in AM (7am): 2
FC in PM (7pm): 0.5
Total Chlorine pm: 1
CC pm=.5
pH am: 7
pH pm: barely 6.9 (lowest on test kit)
Alkalinity: 70

Tonight (6:30pm) I: backwashed till water ran clear. I added 1 lb of soda ash. I added 2 inches of water. The filter is running 24/7 to increase aeration.
(All numbers below from the pool store, yesterday):

Calcium Hardness 220
CYA: 40
Copper 0, Iron 0
Nitrates: 30, phosphates 500. Note: No one has used the pool, so likely from other wastes? This is something I see differing opinions on: whether to treat or not treat for nitrates or phosphates.

3. History: I have been throwing in 2 packages of di-chlor a day, because it was recommended. Have been doing this for 2 weeks till I wised up and FC was virtually nothing the day after I would add it after testing with a very simple testing kit. Alkalinity was very very low as of earlier this week, per pool company, 30, they added baking soda (6lbs) to raise it 3 days ago. Then did more investigation and saw that soda ash is better for the specific issues (low alkalinity and low ph). Added about 4-5 lbs of soda ash over past 48 hours. The alkalinity is getting better! I have not been able to move the ph levels AT ALL. Pool company said it was b/c of nitrates, said I need to drain 3" of water, refill, do this 2 more times. Not sure?

4. Algae problem-- remains, is better than it was, pool water is clear for a few days after vacuuming but the algae shows up again. Not sure the type of algae, it seems to be greenish, clumps at bottom, when I brush it it poofs.

5. Need help figuring out specific steps and PRIORITIES for my $. I have tried:
-- Raising alkalinity with baking soda, now soda ash. Almost there. Thought this would also help pH.
--Not sure how to raise pH. Stuck??!
-- Think i need to shock the pool bc I can't get FC to the level it needs to be. Calculated I need to add 4 jugs of 121 fl oz of Clorox to do this, but am nervous about doing this without being home. I work 7:30am-6pm. It seems I need to be home to check the levels... so that means waiting till next weekend? But am needing some help now.
--Need to replace salt cell (already ordered). Fear-- if we add salt cell, once balanced, and the electronic panel doesn't work upon installation, then I will need to immediately hire someone to replace panel at a tune of 3,000 (?).
--Need a sand change and multiport (?).... when backwashing the multiport leaks, and there is a big rust stain on one side, so clearly has been going on a long time. Not sure.

6. Vacuuming. Okay, so I think I said that I work a lot, so I haven't (to be honest) figured out the vacuum situation. I have relied on the pool company till now, but want to do stuff on my own. The pool looks like it has the hook up for a fancy pump vacuum, but those are crazy expensive. Right now, we have the type of vacuum done through the skimmer. I would like to get the Dolphin Nautilus robot to plug in ($500) to suck stuff up, and then I can clean the filters. Thoughts?

Thank you, and I'm sorry if I left out any important info!

 

[tim5055]

Welcome to TFP!!

What specific "good" test kit did you get?

Please stop fussing with TA. The pool stores want it much higher than we generally recommend. 70 is fine.

Ignore phosphates and nitrates, they are scare tactics, misdirection, and marketing hype which are designed ot sell you expensive products for a non-problem. We don't drain/refill to lower nitrates.

Stop with pool store testing. We trust your numbers from a quality test kit (see my first question) than we do testing performed by someone who is looking for issues to sell you solutions for.

You raise pH with 20 Mule Team Borax right off the shelf of your local grocery store (I like Publix, but probably because I own stock) or MegaMart.

You have a good plan, get the pool clear and balanced before you worry about replacing the salt system.

Read the directions on SLAMing your pool in the How To section of Pool School . This is the process you are going to follow once we are assured you are prepared with the correct test kit for the job.

 

[DKT113]

Very simply stated if you adopt this method you will have a sparklie pool and a fatter wallet.

You'll only lose sleep because you have to go into the office instead if staying home to admire the water.

 

[zea3]

Hi, welcome to TFP! I'm going to answer your questions inside the quote. My answers will be in green.

Just purchased a home with an in-ground vinyl pool, mostly in sun all day, pool temp in the 80s, air temp in the 90s. Didn't do inspection of pool prior to purchase (1st mistake). Pool looked clean when purchased (5 /23), but within a week of owning this house, green water, no clue what I'm doing. Second mistake, hiring a pool company to maintain the pool (1x week). Thought pool company was going to do this for my $200/mo... sadly mistaken. Since then, I've been reading everything I could online, primarily on this forum but also other sites. It seems that pool people have a lot of differing opinions (e.g. replace sand? Not replace sand).

Here are the issues:
1. Pool company says I need a new multiport, sand change, and salt-cell, as well as electronic thingee (panel?) which runs filter and salt cell (don't know the name). Pool built supposedly in 2003. Salt cell (T-15) from 2003. Apparently new pump (I don't have make/model handy), according to listing agent. There is no salt in the pool. I ordered a salt cell, it is arriving in 1 week. Goal is to get the pool sanitized and balanced before putting in the salt and salt cell.

What type of sand filter do you have? You may not need to replace the multiport valve. It might just need an o-ring, a spider gasket, or the key assembly may need to be replaced. If you can post a picture of the problem that will help us troubleshoot the multiport valve. Reading farther down I know your pump is working, so I don't know if you need a new control panel either. You may need to deep clean the sand, but I really doubt it needs to be changed. Sand is millions of years old. Spending a few years in your filter does not destroy it. We have instructions for deep cleaning the sand on our site.

2. Relied on pool stores (2 different ones in my area) to tell me readings. Now know to buy my own test kit; got a good one today and have a few numbers from my kit and some from pool company.

3. Today:
FC in AM (7am): 2
FC in PM (7pm): 0.5
Total Chlorine pm: 1
CC pm=.5
pH am: 7
pH pm: barely 6.9 (lowest on test kit)
Alkalinity: 70

Tonight (6:30pm) I: backwashed till water ran clear. I added 1 lb of soda ash. I added 2 inches of water. The filter is running 24/7 to increase aeration.
(All numbers below from the pool store, yesterday):

Calcium Hardness 220
CYA: 40
Copper 0, Iron 0
Nitrates: 30, phosphates 500. Note: No one has used the pool, so likely from other wastes? This is something I see differing opinions on: whether to treat or not treat for nitrates or phosphates.

Make sure the returns are pointed up so they churn the surface of the water. This will help to raise the pH.

3. History: I have been throwing in 2 packages of di-chlor a day, because it was recommended. Have been doing this for 2 weeks till I wised up and FC was virtually nothing the day after I would add it after testing with a very simple testing kit. Alkalinity was very very low as of earlier this week, per pool company, 30, they added baking soda (6lbs) to raise it 3 days ago. Then did more investigation and saw that soda ash is better for the specific issues (low alkalinity and low ph). Added about 4-5 lbs of soda ash over past 48 hours. The alkalinity is getting better! I have not been able to move the ph levels AT ALL. Pool company said it was b/c of nitrates, said I need to drain 3" of water, refill, do this 2 more times. Not sure?

Don't listen to the Pool company. Your pH was probably lower than the test could detect. Continue to aerate and your pH will come up. You can also continue to add soda ash or baking soda to raise pH and TA. Do not drain water. Also do not add any more dichlor to your pool. Switch over to liquid chlorine until your pool is clear and the SWG is ready start producing chlorine.

4. Algae problem-- remains, is better than it was, pool water is clear for a few days after vacuuming but the algae shows up again. Not sure the type of algae, it seems to be greenish, clumps at bottom, when I brush it it poofs.

Once your pH is in the 7.0-7.5 range you can begin the slam process . The slam process will clear the algae from your pool.

5. Need help figuring out specific steps and PRIORITIES for my $. I have tried:
-- Raising alkalinity with baking soda, now soda ash. Almost there. Thought this would also help pH.
--Not sure how to raise pH. Stuck??!

Keep aerating. It was probably so low it will take some time to come back up, even with chemical help.

-- Think i need to shock the pool bc I can't get FC to the level it needs to be. Calculated I need to add 4 jugs of 121 fl oz of Clorox to do this, but am nervous about doing this without being home. I work 7:30am-6pm. It seems I need to be home to check the levels... so that means waiting till next weekend? But am needing some help now.

This is not a one-time application of bleach but an ongoing process. You can add bleach before work and start up again after you get home. Test every two hours on days off from work until the slam is completed.

--Need to replace salt cell (already ordered). Fear-- if we add salt cell, once balanced, and the electronic panel doesn't work upon installation, then I will need to immediately hire someone to replace panel at a tune of 3,000 (?).

If the cost to get the SWG up an running is prohibitive, it can wait until you are able to take care of it. You can treat the pool manually with liquid chlorine or bleach.

--Need a sand change and multiport (?).... when backwashing the multiport leaks, and there is a big rust stain on one side, so clearly has been going on a long time. Not sure.

You probably don't need to do either of these things.

6. Vacuuming. Okay, so I think I said that I work a lot, so I haven't (to be honest) figured out the vacuum situation. I have relied on the pool company till now, but want to do stuff on my own. The pool looks like it has the hook up for a fancy pump vacuum, but those are crazy expensive. Right now, we have the type of vacuum done through the skimmer. I would like to get the Dolphin Nautilus robot to plug in ($500) to suck stuff up, and then I can clean the filters. Thoughts?

Thank you, and I'm sorry if I left out any important info!

If you can edit your signature to tell us what kind of pool and equipment you have it will be easier for us to help you.

 

[Aquamar555]

To Tim:Thank you for your response! I have a Total Poolcare DPD Test kit with Taylor products manufactured for Leslie. I can't find the number, but it allows me to test for Free, Combined, Total Chlorine, Ph, Acid demand test, Base demand test, TA test, Calcium Hardness test, CYA test. Besides waiting to order online, it was the best I could find (I realize the 'best best' ones are online).

I read the directions on how to SLAM the pool, my pool is clear now, doesn't look as bad as the one in the picture, but from what I read the pool would benefit from superchlorination because there is something consuming the chlorine. I'm worried about the repeated testing esp since I likely can't do that until next Sat unless I can add chlorine tomorrow AM and then recheck and add when I get home? I did the pool calculator and calculated to raise FC to 16 I need to add 4.1 jugs of 121oz Clorox. I have 5 jugs that I bought. I just put in 1/2 jug now to get the FC up and hopefully keep the lurking algae at bay.
I have the Borax. Should I work on raising the pH and then figure out the chlorination? Or do both simultaneously?

To Zea: Thank you! I was replying as you were posting, so I edited my post. As for the filter, it is very dark and I don't have a good way of taking a picture, I will post a picture again tomorrow... it would be good to not have to replace it!

There are 2 returns, they are pointed up, I can see the pool water moving. No more di-chlor! Easy to do, now that I bought a ton of bleach. Will focus on raising pH and then once that is up I will begin to slam the pool, I thought that the bleach all had to be added at once? It sounds like not. I guess the goal is to continue to add bleach until the FC level is 16. At that point, I would stop, and then...? Appreciate the late-night responses, helpful since I can't sleep

 

[Casey]

Welcome.

Most of us have jobs and work and we also maintain our pools. You'll just have to test and dose in the morning before work and do the vacuuming, testing and dosing after work. You'll get the most out of your chlorine by dosing it after the sun has gone down.

Please stay away from the pool store and read the ABC's of Pool Water Chemistry in Pool School. We'll get you on the right poo athletes to enjoying a trouble free pool.

Also, you do not have to change your sand. It's a money making scheme the pool store likes to tell people. The sand does not degrade in any way unless it's destroyed by a chemical conversion from the use of Baquicil. This does not apply to you.

 

[tim5055]

To Tim:Thank you for your response! I have a Total Poolcare DPD Test kit with Taylor products manufactured for Leslie. I can't find the number, but it allows me to test for Free, Combined, Total Chlorine, Ph, Acid demand test, Base demand test, TA test, Calcium Hardness test, CYA test. Besides waiting to order online, it was the best I could find (I realize the 'best best' ones are online).

Actually, you did very well in your purchase, but the price was probably fairly steep. You ended up with the Leslie's equivalent of a Taylor K-2005. It is only missing one test we feel you have to have. To effectively practice the TFPC methods, the FAS/DPD chlorine test is essential and that is what you are missing. This test allows the testing of chlorine up to 50 in .2 increments. You need that to properly conduct the SLAM.

You can purchase that individual test here: FAS/DPD Chlorine & CC's test

Plus, you will need extra reagents for that test as you will go through a lot conducting the SLAM Here is what you want: FAS/DPD XL Option

If you really want to get fancy, I also have the SpeedStir and Sample Sizer. They speed testing and accuracy.

 

[Isaac-1]

Welcome, it sounds like you have the Leslies version of the K-2005, you just need to add the FAS-DPD stand alone test to this to get the equivalent of our suggested K-2006 (DPD and FAS-DPD are 2 different things) here is a link where you can order it from TF-Teskkits TFTestkits.net

Once you get that ordered take a breath, and calm down, don't worry about anything other than getting pH, FC using liquid chlorine / bleach only for now using the FC/CYA chart Pool School - Chlorine / CYA Chart

Once you get the FAS-DPD test in hand you can start the SLAM process Pool School - SLAM - Shock Level And Maintain

Now for some good news, chances are you really did need a new T-15 cell if yours was 10 years old, so that is not wasted money, you may also need a new multiport valve, some are serviceable some are not. Some claim not to be serviceable, but really are.

Everything else assume for now the pool service / pool store are just trying to rip you off (even if the guy at the counter does not know it), this includes their chemical suggestions.

Ike

p.s. stop with the dichlor unless you want to drain your pool to lower CYA levels soon

 

[zea3]

When you are performing the slam process, you raise the pool to slam level and keep it at slam level as often as possible during the process. For example based on the test results you reported your slam level is 16ppm of chlorine. Use http://www.troublefreepool.com/calc.html to determine how much chlorine you need to add to reach 16ppm and add it to the pool. Keep the pump running and re-test the FC level 2 hours later. Add enough chlorine to get back to 16ppm. Continue the testing/dosing cycle as much as you can. It is good to do this when you have a couple of days off, but you can dose the pool once before work, and then again after work and once or twice before bed if time permits. Vacuum the pool once a day if possible. Keep the filter running through the slam process and backwash when you see a 20% rise in pressure or when the return flow feels weak.

 

[Aquamar555]

Ok, I apparently have a Flotec centrifugal pump with integral trap (AT251001). There are two returns, one in shallow and one in deep end. There is one in the middle of the pool which doesn't seem to either sucking water in or pushing water out. The panel is an AquaLogic (AQ-Logic-P-4). The pump, which was the main thing that people asked about, I could not find documentation of in the previous owners file. I attach a picture of it here. It seems to be a Tagleus (sp?). The pressure valve looks new, but water leaks around the multiport. The pressure seems to ALWAYS be between 18-20psi, even when I backwash and let the water run to clear. I am backwashing, rinsing, putting back to filter, and the pressure never changes. I have no clear indication from the pressure change as to when to backwash, so I have done it every week since getting the pool. So, to ModSquad, I won't be able to use pressure changes to help me know if I need to backwash. But, will I expect to see a lot of junk during slam?

Today's test values were:
(AM-6am) FC: 1.0
(AM) TC: 2.0
(AM) pH: 7.2
Base demand test: 4
(AM) TA: 70

*Added about 2 lbs of borax after testing in AM, ran pump all day*

(PM-8:30pm)
FC: 0*
TC: 0.5
pH: 7.2
Base demand test 2
TA: 80
**Just added 60 oz liquid bleach, vacuumed*
Water looks clear, some algae at the bottom but water and lining look good.
Ordered the other tests, I really can't start this without them?

 

[tim5055]

Ordered the other tests, I really can't start this without them?

Not really. To perform the SLAM you need to bring your pool up,to shock level and hold it there. Holding it there means you test FC and keep adding chlorine to get back to shock level. The problem you have is with CYA 40 ( that was the last one I saw) you need to be able to test up,to your shock level of 16, which your current chlorine test will not do.

The only thing you could do is use the max of your test, 10 I believe and bring it up to there and hold it. You will be killing algae, just not as much as at 16. Once you get the new tests then bring the level up to 16 where it should be. But, please understand 10 is not the cure, 16 is. 10 would just be a higher holding pattern, but it may shorten the final SLAM a little.

 

[Isaac-1]

Ok, it sounds like you may have a bad / stuck pressure gauge, you can get a replacement for about $15 from tftest-kits (cheaper and much better quality than they typical pool equipment bottom of the barrel high markup gauge. This plus a few cents worth of teflon tape on the threads when you screw it in and hopefully you will be good to go (teflon thread tape is available at any hardware store, small spool cost about $1)

Now down to business, assuming you still have a CYA level of 40 ppm, you need to add a LOT more bleach / liquid chlorine. Using the FC/CYA chart Pool School - Chlorine / CYA Chart you can see that your FC Minimum should be no lower than 3 ppm, your normal operating target should be 5 ppm, but your SLAM target when you are trying to clear up a pool with CC or visible algae is 16 ppm. This means you need to keep your FC at 16 ppm or higher until the pool is clear and you have no CC, right not it seems like you have almost no chlorine of any type in your pool, so you need to add bleach. Get the FC up to 16 ppm and keep it there, this may mean adding bleach every hour or two, once you get things cleared up you need to ALWAYS keep your FC above 3 ppm, and should aim daily for 5 ppm. Any time your FC drops below 3 ppm there is the potential for algae to take hold and the pool to turn green again.


Ike

p.s. How much water is leaking around the multiport valve, if just dripping you can fix / replace it later

 

[Aquamar555]

Thank you Ike and Tim, will wait for test kits to be able to see if FC gets to 16.

Unfortunately the tesy kit from Leslie is missing the tube with the dot to check CYA so until then I am flying blind. Will go after work to ask why kit was missing that part and get replacement.

Yes, FC is very very low, havent been able to budge it even with addition of bleach. But, I think I am making progress...pool is now balanced from todays readings, just not sanitized.

Current levels from 6am
FC 0.75
TC 1.0
CC 0.25 (less than previous days)
Ph 7.5 (finally acceptable)
TA 80

Added 1 jug of 121oz 8,25% bleach at 6am. Will retest tonight. And will keep adding bleach until i have ability to slam....
Thank you all for support, it is so wonderful to have support for managing what seemed like an overwhelming task. Its getting better, thank you thank you

 

[triptyx]

+1 on a TFTestKits gauge. I ordered one to replace the fogged out cruddy one that came with the filter when I bought the house and now I can get a decent read on that thing from the master bedroom. They're very nice and really inexpensive!

 

[Aquamar555]

Main questions:
-- Now that pool is balanced, and has been for 2 days, I can't see algae coming back. BUT I dump a 121oz thing of bleach in during AM (FC at 0), it raises it to about 4 during day, but then drops off to nothing at night... however, I have no alternative source of chlorine in the pool b/c the salt cell isn't working. Now that the salt cell arrived, should I just see if that works? Or, because I had the algae problem, it is worth doing the SLAM?

-- Assuming I get the test kit tomorrow, can anyone tell me how long I have to maintain the SLAM FC level of 16?

I keep testing every day, vacuuming every day, at this point, all levels are balanced and have remained at these levels since 2 days ago....
FC 0
TC 0.5
CC 0.5

ph 7.5
CYA 35
TA 80

 

[tim5055]

Main questions:
-- Now that pool is balanced, and has been for 2 days, I can't see algae coming back. BUT I dump a 121oz thing of bleach in during AM (FC at 0), it raises it to about 4 during day, but then drops off to nothing at night... however, I have no alternative source of chlorine in the pool b/c the salt cell isn't working. Now that the salt cell arrived, should I just see if that works? Or, because I had the algae problem, it is worth doing the SLAM?

-- Assuming I get the test kit tomorrow, can anyone tell me how long I have to maintain the SLAM FC level of 16?

I keep testing every day, vacuuming every day, at this point, all levels are balanced and have remained at these levels since 2 days ago....
FC 0
TC 0.5
CC 0.5

ph 7.5
CYA 35
TA 80

Read the directions on SLAMing your pool in the How To section of Pool School and follow that procedure completely to the end. The end is when you pass all three of these tests:

• CC is 0.5 or lower;
  
• You pass an OCLT (ie overnight FC loss test shows a loss of 1.0 ppm or less);
  
• The water is clear.

When all three are true, you are done SLAMing and can allow the FC to drift down to normal levels.