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Thread: pool warranty void with this method?

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    pool warranty void with this method?

    I'm trying to decide if I'm going to jump on board or not. I hear that people are saying the correct amount of chlorine is used but I am also thinking that I am hearing that more chlorine is used in this method. I hate the idea of chemicals and try to avoid them at all costs. Hence, I looked into trying to get a natural pool but that seemed really hard to do in Phoenix not to mention not wanting to be a guinea pig in the area. I felt as though UV and salt was the next best thing and I'm seeing the UV was probably a waist and the salt water is still chlorine, but maybe it's psychological although speaking of "fillers/additives" I always assumed there were additives to tabs/chlorine and none for a salt pool. Let's leave needs, CLs, levels aside. what would the chemical comparison look like if I were to stick with my salt water pool and traditional methods versus this method? for example, I have algae right now and the chlorine cell after running 22 hrs was still only reading 2.0 chlorine. maybe my cell isn't producing well and I'll get a new cell and be back on track or if the cell is good, it's going to be a long summer seeing the water is not even warm yet and I guess traditionally I'd shock it? Seems easy but I don't like the idea of the chemicals. With this method it seems as though there are lots of steps and more chlorine although less extra chemicals that the pool store would likely be trying to sell me? We r bringing a sample of the water tomorrow so we'll see what they try to say. It's late and I"m falling asleep so I hope this made sense and sorry for hijacking the thread. Thanks!
    40' x 12' IG shotcrete (3 1/2' 5, 4'), Hayward variable spd pumpSP3400VSP, Paramount PV3 in-floor, venturi skimmer, 14,400 glns, Hayward Turbo salt cell T Cell-15, UV, Hayward DE filter, model DE4820, 2 Hayward Color Logic 320 LED color lights, Hayward P4 w puck. 2" line to in-floor valve (46'), deck mount canister parascoping fountain, leaf canister, Marbella, pebble. new build 6-24-15

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    pool warranty void with this method?

    Has anyone had any problems with pbs voiding warrantees for pool owners? Am I getting that they wouldn't probably be advocates for this method? We've already not been good at bringing the water to the pool store and seeing we're having algae now and pb is coming to show us how to clean the DE filter for the first time we want to make sure it at least makes us look as if we r trying. With this method and the correct kit do u no longer make trips to the pool store to have them test your water? do some of them hesitate or void a warranty if they r told liquid bleach is added..? thanku!
    40' x 12' IG shotcrete (3 1/2' 5, 4'), Hayward variable spd pumpSP3400VSP, Paramount PV3 in-floor, venturi skimmer, 14,400 glns, Hayward Turbo salt cell T Cell-15, UV, Hayward DE filter, model DE4820, 2 Hayward Color Logic 320 LED color lights, Hayward P4 w puck. 2" line to in-floor valve (46'), deck mount canister parascoping fountain, leaf canister, Marbella, pebble. new build 6-24-15

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    Mod Squad YippeeSkippy's Avatar
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    Re: pool warranty void with this method?

    We don't need to go to pool stores for routine tests- we test our own and its far more accurate.

    Pool builders know building... not so much pool chemistry. So some get nervous when you say "bleach". Better to say "liquid chlorine" and leave it at that. Same chemical, right?? Pool stores *sell* liquid chlorine. I just know I can get cheaper liquid chlorine in the laundry aisle (among other places) so I do.

    If my warranty was at stake I could sure make the test levels look like they suggest if it came to that if they were coming to check, but I'd fix it myself later.

    If you have algae you need to get your own TF-100 test kit (the one with more of the tests you actually need, for a big pool like yours especially) and stock up on bleach. You can order the test kit from PoolSupplyWorld.com or TFTestkits.net or Amazon. Worth every penny of the aprox $70 cost. Throw a speed stir device in the order too for faster testing. No one ever regrets that extra splurge, honest.

    Test your water and bring us back your results and we'll help you.
    My Amazon Smile for November12K Fiberglass IG, Infinity 4000 automatic cover, SWCG, Hayward Sand Filter, Hayward 1.5 Pump, Doheny Discovery Robot, Savi Melody LED pool lights, outdoor speakers and other assorted doo-dads. Sundance Altamar Hot Tub.
    Our pool build--> Our Pool Solved Our Sloping Yard Skippy's Cheap Pool Cooler -->Skippy's New Fountain

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    Mod Squad YippeeSkippy's Avatar
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    Re: Why does this method work?

    Outdoorsgal- I just answered your other thread, so I'll make this one briefer:

    You're right, the UV was a waste. Don't you get plenty of UV from the sun already out your way?

    If you've got algae your SWG can not overcome it.. it works too slowly. But that's how they're supposed to work. Slow and Steady. So to kill your algae you're going to need some liquid chlorine bullets. To spike your FC up quickly, not sloowwly.

    You need to SLAM your pool and learn how to take care of it better. Self testing would be primary defense, and you've said you aren't even managing to get water to the pool store for their testing, so who knows whats in your water or how long its been going on.

    We need test results from a reliable test kit to know how to advise you. Your chemistry may be so out of whack that it requires some water replacement as well as a SLAM, but who knows at this point?

    Please get a test kit and pronto! Summer is awaitin'!
    My Amazon Smile for November12K Fiberglass IG, Infinity 4000 automatic cover, SWCG, Hayward Sand Filter, Hayward 1.5 Pump, Doheny Discovery Robot, Savi Melody LED pool lights, outdoor speakers and other assorted doo-dads. Sundance Altamar Hot Tub.
    Our pool build--> Our Pool Solved Our Sloping Yard Skippy's Cheap Pool Cooler -->Skippy's New Fountain

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    Re: pool warranty void with this method?

    YipeeSkippy, There is something about the word "bleach" and chlorine that is psychological. I think of bleach discoloring my pool but not chlorine. I remember when I was trying to decide between salt and chlorine pool looking at ingredients at the pool store to try to see if there were fillers and other ingredients besides chlorine and I don't recall ever being able to find a list of ingredients but it does seem silly to think bleach is not chlorine, but I still get nervous, maybe because they instilled that in me. This method seems hard for a vacation. if u leave your pool for a couple of weeks what do u do since u can't check it daily? maybe i'm supposed to check my pool daily now but i don't so that causes an initial hesitation with the method thinking it'll be more work although in the end if the pool isn't green i can see how it'd be less work.

    I thought I recall when i signed up for TFP.com lifetime members like myself would get a discount on the testkit. Do they not sell the kid anymore? didn't see it on amazon but i'll check the other sites. thanku!
    40' x 12' IG shotcrete (3 1/2' 5, 4'), Hayward variable spd pumpSP3400VSP, Paramount PV3 in-floor, venturi skimmer, 14,400 glns, Hayward Turbo salt cell T Cell-15, UV, Hayward DE filter, model DE4820, 2 Hayward Color Logic 320 LED color lights, Hayward P4 w puck. 2" line to in-floor valve (46'), deck mount canister parascoping fountain, leaf canister, Marbella, pebble. new build 6-24-15

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    Mod Squad YippeeSkippy's Avatar
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    Re: pool warranty void with this method?

    Quote Originally Posted by outdoorsgal View Post
    YipeeSkippy, There is something about the word "bleach" and chlorine that is psychological. It may be an emotional belief but not a logical one. Chorine comes in many forms-- granular, solid, liquid, gas. Its all chlorine but the granular and solid contain other ingredients. Ones that we prefer to add or not add as our pools require, so we like to use products that only provide one chemical at a time usually.

    I think of bleach discoloring my pool but not chlorine. Why would bleach discolor your pool? You have a plaster pool, and its pretty hard to discolor in the first place. If you used a pool service they'd be jacking up your chlorine levels far above what you'd do if you did it yourself because they only come once a week and it has to last until the next visit. You can add lower doses throughout the week. Right??

    I remember when I was trying to decide between salt and chlorine pool looking at ingredients at the pool store to try to see if there were fillers and other ingredients besides chlorine and I don't recall ever being able to find a list of ingredients but it does seem silly to think bleach is not chlorine, but I still get nervous, maybe because they instilled that in me. Ya ever see the movie "Moonstuck" which Cher? Great scene where Nick Cage says he loves her and she slaps him a couple of times and yells "Snap outta it!" .... you gotta snap outta it. Your pool's health depends on it.

    This method seems hard for a vacation. if u leave your pool for a couple of weeks what do u do since u can't check it daily? Using our methods you know your pool, you know its needs and how to plan for vacations. Many folks keep their cya level slightly lower than normal so when they do go away on vacation they can use the slow releasing pucks in a floater to hold them till they return. Pucks add CYA along with the chlorine, so knowing that they plan ahead. Others raise their FC levels up and cover the pool and it works for them. A SWG is ideal for short vacations-I know I've left mine for up to 10 days (covered) and its just fine.

    maybe i'm supposed to check my pool daily now but i don't so that causes an initial hesitation with the method thinking it'll be more work although in the end if the pool isn't green i can see how it'd be less work. Until you know your pool you should test daily at least the FC/CC/pH. Then most of us can stretch that another day or two as we can just look at our pools and "read" them. Avoiding testing for fear of having to test more often is just asking for trouble. As Richard the Expert says: "A pool is like a pet, you have to feed them every day even if you don't want to play with them that day."

    I thought I recall when i signed up for TFP.com lifetime members like myself would get a discount on the testkit. Do they not sell the kid anymore? didn't see it on amazon but i'll check the other sites. thanku!
    Yup, the kit is available directly through TFTestkits.net for about $70.
    My Amazon Smile for November12K Fiberglass IG, Infinity 4000 automatic cover, SWCG, Hayward Sand Filter, Hayward 1.5 Pump, Doheny Discovery Robot, Savi Melody LED pool lights, outdoor speakers and other assorted doo-dads. Sundance Altamar Hot Tub.
    Our pool build--> Our Pool Solved Our Sloping Yard Skippy's Cheap Pool Cooler -->Skippy's New Fountain

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    Re: pool warranty void with this method?

    I notice you have a saltwater chlorinator, so you're likely not going to need much chlorinating liquid. I agree with everything Yippee mentioned, and I just thought I'd mention you'll be buying so little chlorinating liquid that there's nothing wrong with finding the best price on chlorine that says "pool" on it if that's worrying you - then worry is gone.

    As far as warranty, I need to collect some poo store results, so I adjust my chemistry so it fits the traditional targets, take the sample in and get my "official" numbers. Right after I collect the sample, I change back to my TFP numbers. (i.e. do it when my pH is around 7.7/7.8; let my FC drop to "traditional" maximum; get my sample; then raise my FC back up with chlorinating liquid and turn the SWC back on). I usually have to get the pool store to test more than once, especially calcium, so they get the LSI number right. (we don't use LSI at TFP, but my warranty says 'professional' testing which has LSI on it)

    Dosing can be automated further if it works for you. I don't have acid dosing, so I did a 3-week vacation with pre-measured jugs of acid to be dumped in on particular days, and all was well when I came back. Lower CYA before vacation with floater and tabs for the absence could have looked after pH as well. When I came back, I needed to brush and run the pool cleaner, and it sparkled again. We wouldn't leave the house entirely unattended any longer than a week anyway, so to me, it all seems to work out.

    Even if it hadn't worked out, (pump failed, SWG failed, bad storm, bad luck, or whatever) I'd SLAM, get help from TFP experts, etc. and be back in business pretty fast anyway. I'm thinking seriously about acid-dosing so I could eliminate the acid additions and be more sure of no scaling.

    At the end of the day, I think the absence risks are less than the risk of letting the average 'professional' pool person look after the chemistry. These risks include scaling and metal stains which are both things I really want to avoid. So for me, with TFP, I'm well out in front.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I meant to say I wrestled with the very same questions when deciding about TFPC.
    12k IG salt; glass beads in plaster; K-2006C, K-1766, CCL, and Aussie 4in1 (HTH); Pentair Eco800 1.2HP VS; Zodiac SWC 1.3 lb/day (25 g/hr); 25" filter recycled glass; OKU solar panels; 1/2 HP solar pump; Rebel (Warrior) pool cleaner; FlowViz; prior pool AG 10k | Read Before Posting to get the best possible advice | ... and this helped me a lot!: TFPC for Beginners

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    needsajet's Avatar
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    Re: pool warranty void with this method?

    My post was already a bit long! But I forgot to mention it's your option to run your pool at traditional levels and still use TFPC, by using lower than optimum CYA (say 30 ppm for non-SWC and 50 ppm for SWC). I'm not recommending anything, it's just a comment. You don't get all the advantages, but it works. I forget this part because Australian traditional levels allow for the FC/CYA ratio, at least indirectly via the label on pool chlorine jugs, which recommend higher routine FC and shock levels for stabilized pools.
    12k IG salt; glass beads in plaster; K-2006C, K-1766, CCL, and Aussie 4in1 (HTH); Pentair Eco800 1.2HP VS; Zodiac SWC 1.3 lb/day (25 g/hr); 25" filter recycled glass; OKU solar panels; 1/2 HP solar pump; Rebel (Warrior) pool cleaner; FlowViz; prior pool AG 10k | Read Before Posting to get the best possible advice | ... and this helped me a lot!: TFPC for Beginners

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    needsajet's Avatar
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    Re: pool warranty void with this method?

    I think it's also important to mention the safety risks of maintaining the pool improperly. Sanitation is done to eliminate disease risks and prevent skin and eye issues, so it's important not to lose sight of that. Those risks are significant and my grandkids are happiest when they're healthy. I always keep in the back of my mind that the presence of algae also means that the risk of bacteria is much, much higher.

    It takes a fair bit of reading to understand how low the active chlorine is in a properly run pool. There's a page I read early on, which helped me to want to understand everything better. Included is an explanation of why there's so much misunderstanding about pools. This was helpful to me because sometimes I need to learn a thing from different perspectives.
    http://poolsolutions.com/gd/best-gue...ine-chart.html

    Here's to a warm, safe and sparkly pool always
    12k IG salt; glass beads in plaster; K-2006C, K-1766, CCL, and Aussie 4in1 (HTH); Pentair Eco800 1.2HP VS; Zodiac SWC 1.3 lb/day (25 g/hr); 25" filter recycled glass; OKU solar panels; 1/2 HP solar pump; Rebel (Warrior) pool cleaner; FlowViz; prior pool AG 10k | Read Before Posting to get the best possible advice | ... and this helped me a lot!: TFPC for Beginners

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    Re: pool warranty void with this method?

    Hello, outdoor gal. I just want to further clarify something so that you have a better understanding going forward, because you don't seem to be aware that SWG is ALSO a TFP method.

    I remember when I was trying to decide between salt and chlorine pool
    Your saltwater pool IS a chlorine pool. You are just using chlorine that is produced from the salt and cell instead of adding it out of a bottle.

    Your swg will produce "x" amount of chlorine in a day, slow and steady. If your cell is clean, there is no unusual organic demand, and you have your cya at the TFP recommended level of 70-80 ppm, then your pool will be "trouble free."

    There is a good chance with a T-15 that you have life left in that cell -- the reason you're only getting 2 ppm reading right now is most likely because you have organics consuming the FC...not likely a failure in cell. In my 25k gallon pool, for example, running the T-15 at 100% for 24 hours would produc a maximum of 7.8 FC.

    That's simply not enough if you have algae, so whether you do it the TFP way or the pool store way, (which is far less reliable) you absolutely have to stop and kill the algae before you'll be able to witness normal FC production from the cell.

    The TFP way involves testing with your own kit, and then dosing to the FC/CYA Chart ratio for a SLAM.

    The pool store way is to essentially fly blind and add often stabilized products that create even higher FC levels than intended, or alternately, too low and never work. Either way, flying blind generally is NO BETTER chemically speaking, and usually WAY WORSE than dosing effectively via use of the test kit

    As a chemically sensitive person myself, I personally far prefer testing and controlling my own parameters. The TFP way has you using these chemicals at the correct level, and therefore, ultimately, LESS.

    By maintaining the chemistry the TFP way and testing accurately, the end result is avoiding algae and unsanitary water, plus avoiding the high ccs (combine chlorine or chloramines) that are the true health hazzard of chlorine use in improperly maintained pools where they're not oxidized.

    So in your shoes, I'd get a Testkit (TFTestkits.net) , I'd perform the slam to get rid of the algae, then dial in your swg to maintain TFP recommended SWG levels. This will give you the best and most effective use of the chemicals and going forward will give you a trouble free pool

    Hope that helps clarify a bit. Cheers to clear.
    In ground extended Grecian, 22,000 gal, Hayward 220t sand filter, vinyl liner, dolphin m4 supreme.
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