Become a TFP Supporter Pool Math Forum Rules Pool School
Results 1 to 16 of 16

Thread: questions about aerating

  1. Back To Top    #1

    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    Troy IL
    Posts
    465

    questions about aerating

    Hello all. My TA is high (175) and I would like to add borates. I know I need to lower the pH with MA and aerate to bring the pH back up, and repeat until the TA falls to where I want it. I lowered my pH a little to 7.4 and thought I'd bring it up to 7.8 or so before knocking it back down. We want to swim tomorrow, so I don't want to stray too far from norm.

    I have a submersible pump I got from Home Depot that has a 1 1/4 threaded output. I rigged up a piece of 1 1/4 inch pvc so that I could sit the pump on the pool floor in the shallow end, and the PVC pipe sits about 3 inches above the water line, and shoots water out the top.

    But I can't get the pH to rise. It's been running for a couple of hours, and I haven't seen it budge from 7.4. I'm tempted to let it aerate overnight, but slightly afraid it may be way too high if I do that when I wake up. What's going on here? Am I just not waiting long enough? Is my aeration method not working?

    17,500 gallon IG Vinyl
    Pentair Tagelus TA60D Sand filter
    Pentair Challenger 1.5HP pump CFII N1 1.5A
    Taylor K-2006-A, Stenner 45MPHP10 auto chlorine feed

  2. Back To Top    #2
    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    DFW, TX
    Posts
    23,999

    Re: questions about aerating

    That is a little odd. It won't hurt for PH to be high overnight, you can lower it in the morning. Also, lowering it to 7.2 instead of 7.4 will speed the process.
    TFP Moderator
    If TFP helped you or saved you money - Become a TFP Supporter! <--Click here
    2012 build and pics, 20k gal gunite, black onyx pebblesheen, OK flagstone, IntellifoVS, cart filter w/Pleatco, IC40 SWG, Solartouch, 5 12'x4' solar panels, HP50HA heat pump, 8mil solar cover, borates, TF-100 test kit, SONOS, Doheny's Discovery Robot, hot tub on bleach

  3. Back To Top    #3

    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    Troy IL
    Posts
    465

    Re: questions about aerating

    Cool. Thanks for the info. I was just re-reading the aeration thread in pool school and on one of the links to a DIY aerators, the poster talked about how it took about 48 hours for them to raise the pH from 7.2 to 7.8. So that makes me feel like I can let it go overnight. Tomorrow I'll more aggressively lower the pH and get back to aerating. I'm aiming to get my TA down to around 50 if possible, which is the low number on my scale for my pool. Then I'll get to work on the borate thing. But I've got a long road ahead of me first I think.

    17,500 gallon IG Vinyl
    Pentair Tagelus TA60D Sand filter
    Pentair Challenger 1.5HP pump CFII N1 1.5A
    Taylor K-2006-A, Stenner 45MPHP10 auto chlorine feed

  4. Back To Top    #4

    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Northern IL
    Posts
    4,615

    Re: questions about aerating

    Yes. Please don't add borates until you are way stable (like a month or two) with pH/TA. Borates are terrific when you are balanced but can be very difficult if you start too early as pH/TA are harder to adjust with borates.

    Also, borates are like CYA and CH. You can't lower them easily.

  5. Back To Top    #5
    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    DFW, TX
    Posts
    23,999

    Re: questions about aerating

    Try lowering it to 60 first, it might be good there since you don't have SWG. Try it for a week or two and if your PH still rises then drop to 50. Sometimes 50 is too low for some pools and PH becomes erratic. Although 50 works great in my pool and many others.
    TFP Moderator
    If TFP helped you or saved you money - Become a TFP Supporter! <--Click here
    2012 build and pics, 20k gal gunite, black onyx pebblesheen, OK flagstone, IntellifoVS, cart filter w/Pleatco, IC40 SWG, Solartouch, 5 12'x4' solar panels, HP50HA heat pump, 8mil solar cover, borates, TF-100 test kit, SONOS, Doheny's Discovery Robot, hot tub on bleach

  6. Back To Top    #6

    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    Troy IL
    Posts
    465

    Re: questions about aerating

    Thanks for the tips, all. I already bought borax, but it can sit in my storage room until I need it. It is apparent that this is going to be a long process anyway. I let my rig run over night, and my pH is up to about 7.6 now. After we swim today I'll drop it to 7.2 and aerate overnight. Keep doing so until my TA gets where I want it.

    And just so I'm clear, I'm definitely aware of how the borates don't come out of the water...just like the salt I got talked into adding to my pool to keep my eyes from burning, and the CYA that was already sky high in there from the previous owner of my house, and the calcium from the awful water our city distributes. I've come to terms with many things

    Much appreciated, all! I'll get there eventually.

    17,500 gallon IG Vinyl
    Pentair Tagelus TA60D Sand filter
    Pentair Challenger 1.5HP pump CFII N1 1.5A
    Taylor K-2006-A, Stenner 45MPHP10 auto chlorine feed

  7. Back To Top    #7
    Richard320's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    San Dimas, CA (LA County)
    Posts
    18,768

    Re: questions about aerating

    Is that pipe open ended, so it's a geyser? If so, try capping it with something more like a sprinkler or showerhead so you get greater velocity and more surface disturbance.

    I'm lucky in that I have a spillover spa. When I run all the return flow through it, the surface almost looks like it;s boiling. I was able to drive pH back up in a couple hours. It's the frothing that really gets things going.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

  8. Back To Top    #8

    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    Troy IL
    Posts
    465

    Re: questions about aerating

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard320 View Post
    Is that pipe open ended, so it's a geyser? If so, try capping it with something more like a sprinkler or showerhead so you get greater velocity and more surface disturbance.

    I'm lucky in that I have a spillover spa. When I run all the return flow through it, the surface almost looks like it;s boiling. I was able to drive pH back up in a couple hours. It's the frothing that really gets things going.
    Thanks for asking. It is uncapped and just spills out like a geyser. Perhaps I'll run to the hardware store today and get a cap and drill some holes in it to make a shower head sprayer. It'll look cooler that way too! I meant to ask about that before, and forgot.

    One other question: should I be running my pump 24x7 while aerating, or should I just let it run at the normal schedule? Since I'm not relying on it to push the water, I'm not sure if it matters. Though keeping the water stirred up makes frequent testing easier.

    17,500 gallon IG Vinyl
    Pentair Tagelus TA60D Sand filter
    Pentair Challenger 1.5HP pump CFII N1 1.5A
    Taylor K-2006-A, Stenner 45MPHP10 auto chlorine feed

  9. Back To Top    #9
    Richard320's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    San Dimas, CA (LA County)
    Posts
    18,768

    Re: questions about aerating

    Quote Originally Posted by camueller View Post
    Thanks for asking. It is uncapped and just spills out like a geyser. Perhaps I'll run to the hardware store today and get a cap and drill some holes in it to make a shower head sprayer. It'll look cooler that way too! I meant to ask about that before, and forgot.

    One other question: should I be running my pump 24x7 while aerating, or should I just let it run at the normal schedule? Since I'm not relying on it to push the water, I'm not sure if it matters. Though keeping the water stirred up makes frequent testing easier.
    I wouldn't waste the electricity.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

  10. Back To Top    #10
    Sidecarist's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Dayton, TN
    Posts
    76

    Re: questions about aerating

    When I went through the same process I was surprised at how much better it worked to lower my pH to 7.0 then raise it to 7.4 and repeat that process. I did it during the week so 0 swimmer load, but aeration raised the pH from 7 to 7.4 in about half the time it took to go from 7.4 to 7.8. I was using a spa jet in one of the returns. It worked great.

    God luck. It's worth it. My pH has remained rock solid at 7.5 for the last month even with the SWG.
    12,000gal Fiberglass In Ground, Pentair 1hp single speed pump, and Pentair 100sq/ft single cartridge filter. Intellichlor IC-40 SWG, Roof mounted 400ft solar heat loop, Zodiac MX8 Elite cleaner w/leaf canister
    Taylor K-2006-C, Speed Stir, Taylor K-1766 salt test

  11. Back To Top    #11

    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    Troy IL
    Posts
    465

    Re: questions about aerating

    That's interesting Sidecarist. It is hot and we swim quite a bit lately, so I'm not sure I want to go that low. But I took it down to 7.2 earlier this evening and after modifying my aerator setup to have a cap on the end of my pvc with several smallish holes drilled into it, my pH is rising raster I think. I checked it a while after adding MA to knock me down to 7.2 from 7.8 after a large swimmer load earlier today. I guess all the splashing from the kids aerated for me a bit. Anyway I was already up to 7.4 after an hour or two, which is much faster than I saw last time. We'll see. I look forward to turning this thing off. I keep thinking it's raining outside.

    17,500 gallon IG Vinyl
    Pentair Tagelus TA60D Sand filter
    Pentair Challenger 1.5HP pump CFII N1 1.5A
    Taylor K-2006-A, Stenner 45MPHP10 auto chlorine feed

  12. Back To Top    #12

    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    Troy IL
    Posts
    465

    Re: questions about aerating

    I have another question, more towards the borates. If my fill water is high in TA, am I going to regret adding borates if I'm having to add water from my hose all the time due to evaporation? I don't know that I'm going to have to add a lot, but I suspect that I may. And I know adding borates makes adjusting the pH and TA harder. Right now I'm planning on taking the TA to 60 and seeing how things work there. But if I find I'm constantly having to fight my TA, is adding borates a bad idea?

    17,500 gallon IG Vinyl
    Pentair Tagelus TA60D Sand filter
    Pentair Challenger 1.5HP pump CFII N1 1.5A
    Taylor K-2006-A, Stenner 45MPHP10 auto chlorine feed

  13. Back To Top    #13
    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    DFW, TX
    Posts
    23,999

    Re: questions about aerating

    No, my fill TA is fairly high and it isn't a problem.

    The reason it is faster to raise PH from 7.0 to 7.4 than from 7.4 to 7.8 is because the PH scale is logarithmic and the farther you get from center (7.0) the bigger the jump is. 7 to 8 is a 10x jump, 8 to 9 is a 100x jump, 9 to 10 is 1000 and so on.

    It is fine to lower your PH to 7.0 briefly during this exercise. 7.0 is the rock bottom that PH should ever be allowed to be and not for long (not days, hours is OK).
    TFP Moderator
    If TFP helped you or saved you money - Become a TFP Supporter! <--Click here
    2012 build and pics, 20k gal gunite, black onyx pebblesheen, OK flagstone, IntellifoVS, cart filter w/Pleatco, IC40 SWG, Solartouch, 5 12'x4' solar panels, HP50HA heat pump, 8mil solar cover, borates, TF-100 test kit, SONOS, Doheny's Discovery Robot, hot tub on bleach

  14. Back To Top    #14

    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    Troy IL
    Posts
    465

    Re: questions about aerating

    Many thanks! That makes me feel better about the path I'm on. I've got my TA down to somewhere between 125 and 150 ppm now. My aerator is working much better at raising the pH back up now that I capped it and drilled the holes. I'm tempted to redo it though, and make it so that it is shooting the water down at the surface of the water, rather than up into the air. That way I'll lose less water. Will I be going backwards though in terms of productivity in raising my pH?

    Knowing that a good hard rain will raise my pH by aeration, I'm guessing that the more drops of water I can get to land across the pool surface and create a splash, the faster this is going to go for me. The direction I spray the water shouldn't change things, right?

    17,500 gallon IG Vinyl
    Pentair Tagelus TA60D Sand filter
    Pentair Challenger 1.5HP pump CFII N1 1.5A
    Taylor K-2006-A, Stenner 45MPHP10 auto chlorine feed

  15. Back To Top    #15

    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    Cincinnati, OH
    Posts
    381

    Re: questions about aerating

    spraying up will also cool the water somewhat.
    30000 gal inground vinyl liner;sand filter w/glass media, nuvo uv, TF-100 test kit; 25 years on Baquacil, converted to TFP chlorine in 2016

  16. Back To Top    #16

    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    Troy IL
    Posts
    465

    Re: questions about aerating

    yeah, that too. I went ahead and changed my setup to just be a 1 1/4" PVC pipe straight up from my submersible pump into a T with 12" arms off the T and 1/4" holes drilled into the bottoms every other inch. It sits about 8 to 10 inches above the water surface and sprays water mostly straight down. I can't tell if it's working better, because my pH didn't rise much overnight. I'll see what it's at when I get home from work, but I'm worried it won't be much different than when I left. If that's the case, I may go back to the up in the air sprayer, even if it wastes water and makes me lose heat.

    17,500 gallon IG Vinyl
    Pentair Tagelus TA60D Sand filter
    Pentair Challenger 1.5HP pump CFII N1 1.5A
    Taylor K-2006-A, Stenner 45MPHP10 auto chlorine feed

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •