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Thread: Constant pH adjustment?

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    Constant pH adjustment?

    This morning's test numbers:

    FC 7
    CC 0
    pH 7.8
    CH 275
    TA 140
    CYA 75

    How do these numbers look? Is it normal for pH to need adjusting pretty often? I find myself adding a little MA every day as the pH tends to keep creeping up. What would cause that? We do have a waterfall, kids have been jumping in pretty much every day, temps have been in the 100s, but cooling down some to the 90s the last couple of days. CYA is high, pretty sure I can thank the first pool store I went to that had us add 3lbs of powdered chlorine(GLB granular) when our FC was at 0 after a week of no pool service. Or, could be user error when testing. I've only been playing around with the test kit since Monday.

    Thanks!
    Pool finished in March 2016, 25k gal, white plaster IG pool, Pentair Clean and Clear Plus Cartridge Filter, Pentair Intelliflo 2 VST Variable Speed Pump, Polaris 280 Pressure Cleaner with Pentair Booster Pump, Natural rock waterfall with Pentair Waterfall specialty pump, Spa: Mastertemp 400 High Performance Heater, TF-100 Test Kit

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    borjis's Avatar
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    Re: Constant pH adjustment?

    Most likely your TA level. It is high.

    You should work on lowering down to at least 80 then see how the ph holds.

    If you still need to add MA often, get the TA down to 50. It could hold steady there.
    16x32 IG Vinyl, 13,000 Gals. Hayward S-244T sand filter, SP2810X15 pump
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    Re: Constant pH adjustment?

    I wouldn't disagree whatsoever with the high Alkalinity post above. Get that down.

    But also, you have a brand new plaster pool (opened March 2016). PB should have informed you that the first season (at minimum) you will naturally be dealing with rising pH as the plaster cures. Stay on top of that during this sensitive time for the surface of your pool.
    25 + year pool owner. Current pool (going on 11th year) - 38K gallon in ground Gunite/White Plaster, Spillover Spa, Hayward Cartridge Filter, Hayward 450k BTU NG Heater, Hayward Goldline Aqua Logic control with T-Cell-15 Salt Water Cell, Dolphin Explorer.
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    Re: Constant pH adjustment?

    Ok, so I need to lower pH down to between 7.0 to 7.2 and then aerate. I figure just run my waterfall and the spillway to aerate? How long should I aerate? Few hours a day? Just a little bit at a time? You say to stay on top of it...does that mean just once daily checks or should I check it more than that? PB didn't say anything about the plaster other than make sure we brush it daily for the first two weeks after plastering, but after doing some reading around here I see that new plaster can be a contributor. Is water with pH of 7.0 to 7.2 still comfortable to swim in? I added enough MA to bring down to about 7.5 this morning, I'm guessing it's ok to add some more in now to bring it down some more?
    Pool finished in March 2016, 25k gal, white plaster IG pool, Pentair Clean and Clear Plus Cartridge Filter, Pentair Intelliflo 2 VST Variable Speed Pump, Polaris 280 Pressure Cleaner with Pentair Booster Pump, Natural rock waterfall with Pentair Waterfall specialty pump, Spa: Mastertemp 400 High Performance Heater, TF-100 Test Kit

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    Re: Constant pH adjustment?

    Another question...do I lower pH, let it sit for awhile and then aerate? Or should I start aerating asap?
    Pool finished in March 2016, 25k gal, white plaster IG pool, Pentair Clean and Clear Plus Cartridge Filter, Pentair Intelliflo 2 VST Variable Speed Pump, Polaris 280 Pressure Cleaner with Pentair Booster Pump, Natural rock waterfall with Pentair Waterfall specialty pump, Spa: Mastertemp 400 High Performance Heater, TF-100 Test Kit

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    Re: Constant pH adjustment?

    oops didn't see this is a new plaster build....that explains a lot.

    I think you need to aerate at the same time.
    16x32 IG Vinyl, 13,000 Gals. Hayward S-244T sand filter, SP2810X15 pump
    (1.5 HP motor) Raypak PR266AEN (266k btu) gas heater. TF-100 Test Kit.
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    Re: Constant pH adjustment?

    My first pool I went through 2 re plasters (the original and one ~ 12 years into it's life). My current pool is going on it's 11th year and the surface is smooth as glass still. My process during the brushing stage was a little different than what you are conventionally told based on my experience from my prior plasters. But you are beyond that stage anyway so not worth getting into.

    By "stay on top of it" I can't put a time frame exactly how often. But just get to "know your pool" and it's attitude. (Yes, they all have their own unique personalities). For a few days I would test once in morning and once at night. See if pH is bouncing more during the day when pump is on, (and that waterfall going) or at night when things are calm. This will also help when you dose your MA.

    Brushing your pool is ALWAYS a good thing. Yes it is mandatory in the beginning. But it is good to do when ever. Even years down the road. Keeps the plaster real nice before anything bad can happen.

    With a Alkalinity of 140, I would be aerating away as much as you can while keeping that pH low. Once you get a feel for how much she wants to bounce everyday, you can probably cut back to testing just once a day. Which I would do at the end of you pump run time. Personally I feel that is when you will gets the most swing in pH.

    Is your waterfall like a slow relaxing dribble over a dam wall or is it more of a gushing wall of water falling into the pool?
    25 + year pool owner. Current pool (going on 11th year) - 38K gallon in ground Gunite/White Plaster, Spillover Spa, Hayward Cartridge Filter, Hayward 450k BTU NG Heater, Hayward Goldline Aqua Logic control with T-Cell-15 Salt Water Cell, Dolphin Explorer.
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    Re: Constant pH adjustment?

    20160610_124915.jpg

    - - - Updated - - -

    This is our setup

    20160610_124925.jpg
    Pool finished in March 2016, 25k gal, white plaster IG pool, Pentair Clean and Clear Plus Cartridge Filter, Pentair Intelliflo 2 VST Variable Speed Pump, Polaris 280 Pressure Cleaner with Pentair Booster Pump, Natural rock waterfall with Pentair Waterfall specialty pump, Spa: Mastertemp 400 High Performance Heater, TF-100 Test Kit

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    Re: Constant pH adjustment?

    LOL. That answers that. Beautiful! I would buy MA at Lowes by the case for this first season.
    25 + year pool owner. Current pool (going on 11th year) - 38K gallon in ground Gunite/White Plaster, Spillover Spa, Hayward Cartridge Filter, Hayward 450k BTU NG Heater, Hayward Goldline Aqua Logic control with T-Cell-15 Salt Water Cell, Dolphin Explorer.
    You Need: Bleach, a A Test Kit & a Bookmark to "Pool School". Now what's your question?

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: Constant pH adjustment?

    As mentioned a few things cause PH to rise.

    New plaster, wait up to a year for it to cure
    Waterfall, bubbler, etc, run them less
    People swimming and splashing, live with it that is what the pool is for!
    TA, lower it to 80 right away and see how the PH reacts if PH still rises then lower 10 ppm at a time as low as 60 or the PH stops rising so much. Some pools do OK with TA at 50, mine does, and others do not. If your PH jumps around, up and down, then TA needs to be higher.

    You will not eliminate PH rise in a new plaster pool or in a pool with water features running daily. Or maybe not in a pool with lots of swimming.

    Here is how to lower TA, Pool School - Lower Total Alkalinity Yes, that waterfall definitely qualifies as aeration!
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    Re: Constant pH adjustment?

    Agree with all of the advice above. Get TA down to 80 or below ASAP. That will slow the pH rise. But it will constantly go up with new plaster and aeration in near term. Doing the acid addition/aeration dance will bring the TA down but each pool is unique so hard to estimate how long it will take. Maybe days, maybe weeks. When I opened my pool, the TA was 150 and it took me 3 weeks to get it to 80, but I wasn't constantly aerating it and did not lower pH below 7.4. I took my time as kids weren't swimming in it yet. After getting TA down to below 80, I added borate and that has also helped my pH rise. But I still add acid every 3-4 days as my plaster is new like yours, plus I have a SWG, negative edge wall and laminars which contribute to my pH rise. I don't even bother buying just one bottle of muriatic acid, I buy at least 2 gallons when I get low on my acid reserves at home.
    17k IG plaster pool+ spa, Stonescape mini-pebble midnight blue, marble coping, Trex and porcelain tile decking, Pentair Intelliflo VSP x 3 (filter, laminars and spa jets), Pentair IC40, Pentair MasterTemp 400, Pentair Quad DE 100, Pentair CC 150 for laminars, Intellibrite 5G LEDs, MagicStream Laminars x 3, Intellitouch i9+3 automation with Screenlogic2, IntellipH, Dolphin s300i, TFTest kit, SpeedStir

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    Re: Constant pH adjustment?

    Awesome, thanks all for the advice! Will aerate like crazy until I get TA down. Is TA just naturally high maybe because of water source? We do have bad water quality here.

    Quote Originally Posted by mikemass View Post
    Brushing your pool is ALWAYS a good thing. Yes it is mandatory in the beginning. But it is good to do when ever. Even years down the road. Keeps the plaster real nice before anything bad can happen.
    I do try to give it a brush daily now that we no longer have pool service, usually about twice a day because I want to get as much as I can. We just use the brush our PB gave us. Are all pool brushes created equal or do you recommend investing in a good one?
    Pool finished in March 2016, 25k gal, white plaster IG pool, Pentair Clean and Clear Plus Cartridge Filter, Pentair Intelliflo 2 VST Variable Speed Pump, Polaris 280 Pressure Cleaner with Pentair Booster Pump, Natural rock waterfall with Pentair Waterfall specialty pump, Spa: Mastertemp 400 High Performance Heater, TF-100 Test Kit

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    Re: Constant pH adjustment?

    Eventually you will want a stainless steel brush. At three months old it may be a little early for that. In that case I would follow the advice of PB as to whatever your warranty states. The important thing is you are still brushing. Great job. Do you still get up plaster dust when you brush?
    25 + year pool owner. Current pool (going on 11th year) - 38K gallon in ground Gunite/White Plaster, Spillover Spa, Hayward Cartridge Filter, Hayward 450k BTU NG Heater, Hayward Goldline Aqua Logic control with T-Cell-15 Salt Water Cell, Dolphin Explorer.
    You Need: Bleach, a A Test Kit & a Bookmark to "Pool School". Now what's your question?

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    Re: Constant pH adjustment?

    The picture of your waterfall seems to show most of the water coming down the middle and none on the left ( the top left of your roof seems dry). If you place a couple of small rocks on the roof you can alter the flow so that the water flows evenly down the roof onto the pool. You may or may not prefer that, of course, but I had the same issue so I thought I'd mention it.
    1200 Sq Ft 41,000 Gal. Gunite, JANDY SVRS VS pump, JANDY JXI 400,000 BTU, Polaris 280 w/ 3/4 BP, Rockwall and Grotto (w/6 jets and blower), 2 JANDY Lam Jets, 2 LED Bubblers, 5 Ledlights, AQUALINK P16 RS, 90% Quartz, SWF 185 GMP BP, SWF 125 BP, Levelor K1100 Autofill, AP Digital SWG, 2 skim and 5 returns, and mostly 3 inch piping

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    Re: Constant pH adjustment?

    Is there a max amount of muriatic acid that should be added in a day? Or can I add as much as I need to maintain pH at desired levels?


    Quote Originally Posted by grottoguy View Post
    The picture of your waterfall seems to show most of the water coming down the middle and none on the left ( the top left of your roof seems dry). If you place a couple of small rocks on the roof you can alter the flow so that the water flows evenly down the roof onto the pool. You may or may not prefer that, of course, but I had the same issue so I thought I'd mention it.
    I thought about it, my husband didn't mind it so much and honestly we wanted the PB out asap so we didn't push the issue even though he offered.
    Pool finished in March 2016, 25k gal, white plaster IG pool, Pentair Clean and Clear Plus Cartridge Filter, Pentair Intelliflo 2 VST Variable Speed Pump, Polaris 280 Pressure Cleaner with Pentair Booster Pump, Natural rock waterfall with Pentair Waterfall specialty pump, Spa: Mastertemp 400 High Performance Heater, TF-100 Test Kit

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    Re: Constant pH adjustment?

    Understood. If you ever want to experiment you don't need to concrete the rocks on- you can simply put them on top.

    Your pool looks great by the way.
    1200 Sq Ft 41,000 Gal. Gunite, JANDY SVRS VS pump, JANDY JXI 400,000 BTU, Polaris 280 w/ 3/4 BP, Rockwall and Grotto (w/6 jets and blower), 2 JANDY Lam Jets, 2 LED Bubblers, 5 Ledlights, AQUALINK P16 RS, 90% Quartz, SWF 185 GMP BP, SWF 125 BP, Levelor K1100 Autofill, AP Digital SWG, 2 skim and 5 returns, and mostly 3 inch piping

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: Constant pH adjustment?

    Use as much acid as needed to keep your PH at 7.8 or lower, down to 7.2.
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    Re: Constant pH adjustment?

    I was able to bring TA down to 90 just by turning on the waterfall for a few on Friday and Saturday. Should I continue to actively try to bring it down to 80? I figure that I'll be adding some MA in the next few days which will bring it down eventually anyway...

    Also, I went to Lowe's and bought some MA but didn't notice that it was 14.5% instead of the normal 31.45% I buy at the pool store. Should have known that's why it cost half as much. Same stuff, just less concentrated, right? Or is the higher concentration better?
    Pool finished in March 2016, 25k gal, white plaster IG pool, Pentair Clean and Clear Plus Cartridge Filter, Pentair Intelliflo 2 VST Variable Speed Pump, Polaris 280 Pressure Cleaner with Pentair Booster Pump, Natural rock waterfall with Pentair Waterfall specialty pump, Spa: Mastertemp 400 High Performance Heater, TF-100 Test Kit

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    Re: Constant pH adjustment?

    How do you chlorinate your pool?

    Yes, definitely down to 80. Maybe lower depending on your answer.
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    Re: Constant pH adjustment?

    Quote Originally Posted by mbusd View Post
    Also, I went to Lowe's and bought some MA but didn't notice that it was 14.5% instead of the normal 31.45% I buy at the pool store. Should have known that's why it cost half as much. Same stuff, just less concentrated, right? Or is the higher concentration better?
    It's ok to have the lower concentration. Update the concentration in PoolMath to match your MA and add the resulting recommended dosage. Lower concentration just means hauling twice as many bottles and pouring in twice as much. No worries.
    8,500gal plaster in-ground with attached spa, two floor drains, one skimmer. Chlorine, City Water.
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