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Thread: Ready to Convert to TFP Method...Here Are My First Results

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    Ready to Convert to TFP Method...Here Are My First Results

    Hi team,

    I have been looking at this website for several months since opening our new pool a few months ago (see signature for details). I have read everything in pool school but still am nervous about starting this! We have been using the standard chlorine 3" pucks that our pool builder gave us. We have also been super-chlorinating about once a week as our swim load has been heavy and will continue to be that way (average 20 -30 swimmers over a weekend). I am very excited about using the TFP method and just received my TF-100 test kit in the mail yesterday. I just did all of the necessary tests and wanted to share my results. I am hopeful to get some guidance on my next steps. I went ahead and bought 5 gallons of Clorox Uscented Regular Bleach (yields 7.85% available chlorine). I'm also hoping to learn how to mix the bleach into the water when it is time to treat the pool. I wasn't sure if you just pour it in the deep end or have to add it to water. I am very excited about this journey and look forward to sparkling water! Here are my results:

    Total Chlorine = 1.5
    FC = 1ppm
    CC = .5
    PH = 7.2
    CYA = 50
    Calcium Hardness = 250
    Alkalinity = 170

    Thanks so much for your help and look forward to hearing from the experts!
    Constructed in Spring 2016, 20x40 inground vinyl liner pool; depths from 3.5 to 6.5 feet; 26,000 gallons, Pentair sand filter, Pentair two-speed Whisperflo pump, In-line chlorinator (don't use it though), 125,000 BTU Pentair Heat Pump, Coverstar Automatic Cover, TF-100 Test kit, fill pool with city water.

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    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: Ready to Convert to TFP Method...Here Are My First Results

    Those numbers are quite good. Looks like all you need is to raise the FC level. That's ridiculously easy.

    I'll give you one freebie, but I expect you to read Pool School - PoolMath so you can set up poolmath and calculate your own doses in the future. Pour 1.9 jugs of your bleach into the return stream while the pump is running. That's it. You can eyeball the 1.9. If you miss by a tenth, it's no crisis.

    Study up on ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry
    Pool School - Chlorine / CYA Chart
    Pool School - Recommended Pool Chemicals
    Pool School - PoolMath

    Once you start doing it, it will make more sense.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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    Re: Ready to Convert to TFP Method...Here Are My First Results

    Thanks Richard and I appreciate the "freebie"! Just to clarify, my pool is set halfway between Main Drain and Skimmer for the return flow. Do I need to move it all the way to Skimmer and pour the bleach into the skimmer or just leave it on the current setting and still pour in the skimmer? Sorry for the dumb questions but want to make sure I do this correctly.

    Also, I was thinking my Alkalinity was a little high based on the test kit guidelines. Do I need to do anything to adjust it?
    Constructed in Spring 2016, 20x40 inground vinyl liner pool; depths from 3.5 to 6.5 feet; 26,000 gallons, Pentair sand filter, Pentair two-speed Whisperflo pump, In-line chlorinator (don't use it though), 125,000 BTU Pentair Heat Pump, Coverstar Automatic Cover, TF-100 Test kit, fill pool with city water.

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    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: Ready to Convert to TFP Method...Here Are My First Results

    Not in the skimmer. In front of the return, where the water goes back into the pool.

    Don't worry about alkalinity. And in fact, the next time you test it, wipe the tip first. See the notes here: Pool School - Total Alkalinity
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: Ready to Convert to TFP Method...Here Are My First Results

    I like my skimmer/drain valve to be about 75% skimmer and 25% drain to skim more stuff before it sinks.

    Here is the cheat sheet for chemicals and how to add them to your pool.
    Pool School - Recommended Pool Chemicals
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    2012 build and pics, 20k gal gunite, black onyx pebblesheen, OK flagstone, IntellifoVS, cart filter w/Pleatco, IC40 SWG, Solartouch, 5 12'x4' solar panels, HP50HA heat pump, 8mil solar cover, borates, TF-100 test kit, SONOS, Doheny's Discovery Robot, hot tub on bleach

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    Re: Ready to Convert to TFP Method...Here Are My First Results

    So I did the PoolMath and set my targets based on the TFP recommendations for a Vinyl Liner pool. My PH is at 7.2 and I keyed in 7.5 as my target. It says I need to add 11 lbs. of borax. Is this something you would recommend? It seems safe since my target of 7.5 is on the lower side of the recommended levels (7.5-7.8). Also, do I need to key anything in for the Salt or Borate numbers within the spreadsheet?
    Constructed in Spring 2016, 20x40 inground vinyl liner pool; depths from 3.5 to 6.5 feet; 26,000 gallons, Pentair sand filter, Pentair two-speed Whisperflo pump, In-line chlorinator (don't use it though), 125,000 BTU Pentair Heat Pump, Coverstar Automatic Cover, TF-100 Test kit, fill pool with city water.

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: Ready to Convert to TFP Method...Here Are My First Results

    Yes, raising PH to 7.5 is good. Enter 0 in both columns for borate and salt.

    What is your TA?
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    2012 build and pics, 20k gal gunite, black onyx pebblesheen, OK flagstone, IntellifoVS, cart filter w/Pleatco, IC40 SWG, Solartouch, 5 12'x4' solar panels, HP50HA heat pump, 8mil solar cover, borates, TF-100 test kit, SONOS, Doheny's Discovery Robot, hot tub on bleach

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    Re: Ready to Convert to TFP Method...Here Are My First Results

    If you have a fountain, or a lot of active kids, the aeration these provide (splashes, etc) will naturally cause your pH to rise. It won't be instant, but it won't cost anything either
    My Amazon Smile for November12K Fiberglass IG, Infinity 4000 automatic cover, SWCG, Hayward Sand Filter, Hayward 1.5 Pump, Doheny Discovery Robot, Savi Melody LED pool lights, outdoor speakers and other assorted doo-dads. Sundance Altamar Hot Tub.
    Our pool build--> Our Pool Solved Our Sloping Yard Skippy's Cheap Pool Cooler -->Skippy's New Fountain

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    Re: Ready to Convert to TFP Method...Here Are My First Results

    I will ditto yippee; try aeration to raise the pH first. you can easily make an aerator that fits in one of the return jets temporarily. no glue necessary. I say this since your alkalinity is already on the high side. Not that it is a problem, not at all, just that using even borax raised my alkalinity too.
    30000 gal inground vinyl liner;sand filter w/glass media, nuvo uv, TF-100 test kit; 25 years on Baquacil, converted to TFP chlorine in 2016

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    Re: Ready to Convert to TFP Method...Here Are My First Results

    Quote Originally Posted by dkite22 View Post
    So I did the PoolMath and set my targets based on the TFP recommendations for a Vinyl Liner pool. My PH is at 7.2 and I keyed in 7.5 as my target. It says I need to add 11 lbs. of borax. Is this something you would recommend? It seems safe since my target of 7.5 is on the lower side of the recommended levels (7.5-7.8). Also, do I need to key anything in for the Salt or Borate numbers within the spreadsheet?
    No, I don't recommend raising pH with Borax. You'll just end up chasing a number. With 170 TA, pH will rise pretty quick naturally so in a day or two you'll be adding acid to lower pH again. Leave it at 7.2 and you might be able to go four or five days before it rises on its own.

    The secret is that if your Now value is within the Suggested range (And note TA has that + after it) then you just plug that value in as your target. Look! No chemicals needed.

    If you haven't been adding borates and salt then you won;t have the tests for them anyway so enter zero in poolmath.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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    Re: Ready to Convert to TFP Method...Here Are My First Results

    You guys are awesome and I appreciate all of the feedback. At this point, I think I will just continue to add bleach on a daily basis to keep my chlorine in check.
    Constructed in Spring 2016, 20x40 inground vinyl liner pool; depths from 3.5 to 6.5 feet; 26,000 gallons, Pentair sand filter, Pentair two-speed Whisperflo pump, In-line chlorinator (don't use it though), 125,000 BTU Pentair Heat Pump, Coverstar Automatic Cover, TF-100 Test kit, fill pool with city water.

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    Re: Ready to Convert to TFP Method...Here Are My First Results

    Been doing the TFP method for about three weeks now. Here are my updated results:

    FC = 1
    CC = 1
    TC= 2
    Calcium = 200
    TA = 110
    CYA = 40
    PH = 7.5
    I test in the evening and I am finding that my FC is always around 1ppm after being about 5ppm in the morning before all of the kids are swimming. I'm finding that I need to add at least a gallon of bleach each evening which takes it to about 5ppm and then it decreases to about 1ppm at the end of each day. I'm considering adding 1.5 gallons each evening which would take it to about 7ppm and then come down to around 3ppm. I'm nervous that I keep dropping to around 1ppm at the end of the day. I have done the overnight test and it is fine. I think it the heavy chlorine is based on numerous kids swimming each day.
    Constructed in Spring 2016, 20x40 inground vinyl liner pool; depths from 3.5 to 6.5 feet; 26,000 gallons, Pentair sand filter, Pentair two-speed Whisperflo pump, In-line chlorinator (don't use it though), 125,000 BTU Pentair Heat Pump, Coverstar Automatic Cover, TF-100 Test kit, fill pool with city water.

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    Re: Ready to Convert to TFP Method...Here Are My First Results

    Try raising your CYA (and corresponding FC goal) by 10ppm. Are the kids taking pee-breaks?

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    Re: Ready to Convert to TFP Method...Here Are My First Results

    I don't think that is the issue but it's just the number of bodies. On average, there are probably 10-12 swimmers on a normal day.
    Constructed in Spring 2016, 20x40 inground vinyl liner pool; depths from 3.5 to 6.5 feet; 26,000 gallons, Pentair sand filter, Pentair two-speed Whisperflo pump, In-line chlorinator (don't use it though), 125,000 BTU Pentair Heat Pump, Coverstar Automatic Cover, TF-100 Test kit, fill pool with city water.

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: Ready to Convert to TFP Method...Here Are My First Results

    It is very important to keep FC above minimum for your CYA at all times, FC/CYA Chart. When FC drops below minimum the pool becomes unsanitary because the kill rate for bacteria, viruses and pathogens is not sufficient to prevent person to person disease transmission, especially with kids.

    It is safe to swim when
    FC is above minimum and up to shock level for your CYA, FC/CYA Chart
    PH is between 7.2 and 7.8
    and the water is clear
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    2012 build and pics, 20k gal gunite, black onyx pebblesheen, OK flagstone, IntellifoVS, cart filter w/Pleatco, IC40 SWG, Solartouch, 5 12'x4' solar panels, HP50HA heat pump, 8mil solar cover, borates, TF-100 test kit, SONOS, Doheny's Discovery Robot, hot tub on bleach

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    Re: Ready to Convert to TFP Method...Here Are My First Results

    10-12 is a lot of kids! That's a lot of sweat, spit, hair products, sunscreen, and fun.

    If it were me, I'd boost CYA to 50 to limit sun loss. I'd then target 8ppm FC each night with my chlorine adds. It doesn't hurt to check it in the morning before the fun starts and give it a little hip check back up to 8 if need be. That'll still be low enough to be kid friendly, but give you a 4ppm pad to burn through as all the little folks have fun.

    My only FC crash so far was when we invited the neighbors and my mother over and had about 10 people in the pool. My pool is a lot smaller than yours, but that's a lot for the chlorine to handle.
    8,500gal plaster in-ground with attached spa, two floor drains, one skimmer. Chlorine, City Water.
    Pentair WhisperFlo 1hp Pump, MagnaTek Midcentury EPlus motor, Pentair CleanNClear 200SF Cartridge filter, Purex Triton MiniMax 250 Gas Heater, Pentair SunLite, AutoFill.
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