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Thread: Advice/ Help

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    nastygts's Avatar
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    Advice/ Help

    Pool History:
    Fiberglass 14,000gal
    Pool Temp: 88-91
    Pump RT: 8-10 Hrs Daily
    Pool brushed and Vac Weekly; Dolphin used daily

    I gave the CL system a chance to work and prove itself. I have not added any chemicals since completion last fall when M-acid was used to bring the Ph from 8.4 -> 7.6




    CL Free System (cleaned filter & copper plates 6/4/16)

    (Chlorine floater in pool when not occupied; 4 pucks)

    I ran 2 separate tests as follows:

    Kit included with CLfree system:

    Ph: 6.8
    Alk: 50ppm
    Cal Hard: 54ppm
    Copper: .5ppm
    Phos: 500ppb


    Trouble Free Pool Test Kit ( TF-100)

    K-100
    Ph: 6.8
    TC- 5! (highlighter yellow)
    Br- 10

    Ch Drop Test - 5ppm FC
    Cal Hard: 550ppm
    TA:60
    CYA: 70-80 ( leaning closer to 70's)


    According to my calculations with the pool calculator I feel I am over my head. Pool water is clear; just not as sparkling.....maybe due to the little bit of rain last week?

    Any Help would be greatly appreciated


    pt.jpg
    Viking Pools Cancun, Saphire color scheme, Deck Jets, Pentair 1.5 super flo pump, Pentair 250K heater, CL Free System

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    Mod Squad YippeeSkippy's Avatar
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    Re: Advice/ Help

    Some random thoughts-

    I'm a little confused to this so-called "CL Free System" and that you're still using pucks anyway?? Pucks are making your CYA higher with each one. Not good. The higher the CYA = the more FC is necessary. You would benefit from a partial drain and refilling.

    CLFree systems such as Ecosmart and Nature2 are not well respected devices and leave you still needing chlorine, so why bother?

    Did you know that copper is particularly bad for making metal stains on fiberglass pools, along with green hair? Your level is unfortunately high already.

    You don't have bromine in the pool so don't bother with that.

    Your pH and FC are way too low. You should use the Pool Math application to guide you on how much to add to bring them up. With a CYA of 80 your FC should be at 9, and never below 6 at all times. You're not using salt.....right??

    Please list all your test results like this:
    FC
    CC
    pH
    TA
    CH
    CYA

    FC/CYA Chart
    ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry
    My Amazon Smile for November12K Fiberglass IG, Infinity 4000 automatic cover, SWCG, Hayward Sand Filter, Hayward 1.5 Pump, Doheny Discovery Robot, Savi Melody LED pool lights, outdoor speakers and other assorted doo-dads. Sundance Altamar Hot Tub.
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    nastygts's Avatar
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    Re: Advice/ Help

    Quote Originally Posted by YippeeSkippy View Post
    Some random thoughts-

    I'm a little confused to this so-called "CL Free System" and that you're still using pucks anyway?? Pucks are making your CYA higher with each one. Not good. The higher the CYA = the more FC is necessary. You would benefit from a partial drain and refilling.

    CLFree systems such as Ecosmart and Nature2 are not well respected devices and leave you still needing chlorine, so why bother?

    Did you know that copper is particularly bad for making metal stains on fiberglass pools, along with green hair? Your level is unfortunately high already.

    You don't have bromine in the pool so don't bother with that.

    Your pH and FC are way too low. You should use the Pool Math application to guide you on how much to add to bring them up. With a CYA of 80 your FC should be at 9, and never below 6 at all times. You're not using salt.....right??

    Please list all your test results like this:
    FC
    CC
    pH
    TA
    CH
    CYA

    FC/CYA Chart
    ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry
    FC - 5
    CC -
    pH - 6.8
    TA - 60
    CH - 550
    CYA - 70


    The CL free water system was included in the pool purchase. I agreed to give it a try before taking the next step towards SW.

    I was told by the "pool school instructor" to use the floating chlorination as a safety net. These guys are supposed to educate the uneducated......I didn't know so i didn't question.


    Learned the hard way with the copper today......green hair. I'm not sure what happened with the controller over the weekend; but was reset to max power for new pool startup(which is used to raise copper to suitable levels) and never reduced power.


    Thanks for the info
    Viking Pools Cancun, Saphire color scheme, Deck Jets, Pentair 1.5 super flo pump, Pentair 250K heater, CL Free System

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    Mod Squad YippeeSkippy's Avatar
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    Re: Advice/ Help

    Ok, we need to know what your FAS-DPD drop test gave you for FC *and* CCs. The presence or absence of CCs tells us a lot.

    Go get some bleach at the grocery store. Ditch the pucks and figure out how to remove or turn off that copper system. Get some swimmers shampoo to help fix the green hair. Is a water exchange possible so that you can get that copper out of the pool?

    Add as much bleach as it takes per PoolMath (top of page) to get to 9ppm. Bring that pH up STAT with Borax (found in the laundry aisle) and then retest everything after letting it all mix for about 30 min.

    Please also test your fill water with the CH test. Need to figure out how hard your water is...and if we need to address this? Will discuss after.
    My Amazon Smile for November12K Fiberglass IG, Infinity 4000 automatic cover, SWCG, Hayward Sand Filter, Hayward 1.5 Pump, Doheny Discovery Robot, Savi Melody LED pool lights, outdoor speakers and other assorted doo-dads. Sundance Altamar Hot Tub.
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    nastygts's Avatar
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    Re: Advice/ Help

    Thank you once again for the help.


    Before heading off to the store I tested water once again. Just making sure the test was not inaccurate on my behalf.


    Chlorine floater pulled out of the pool 12am

    Heater off

    Pump running 30 hrs now.

    FC 3

    CC 0.5 ( very faint pink; add 1 drop and the pink was visibly gone)

    Combine the two 3.5 (Right?)
    PH 6.9

    TA 60

    CH 550-575 5 DROPS= PINK 6 DROPS= DARK PINK 10 DROPS= NO CHANGE

    CYA 60-70


    CH Home Water Test = 225


    Worst case I can do a partial drain/refill if unable to correct the levels.

    Just out of curiosity; why is the water still clear?
    Viking Pools Cancun, Saphire color scheme, Deck Jets, Pentair 1.5 super flo pump, Pentair 250K heater, CL Free System

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    nastygts's Avatar
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    Re: Advice/ Help

    Picked up plenty of bleach, borax, and baking soda.

    Will post some results after letting everything settle.



    EDIT:


    Added:

    175ish Oz's of 6% bleach to raise FC to 9

    66 Oz's of Baking soda (2 - 2lb boxes) to raise TA to 80

    106 Oz's Mule Borax ( 1.75 4 lb box) to raise PH to 7.5-7.8

    Now just waiting to retest.
    Viking Pools Cancun, Saphire color scheme, Deck Jets, Pentair 1.5 super flo pump, Pentair 250K heater, CL Free System

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    Mod Squad YippeeSkippy's Avatar
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    Re: Advice/ Help

    Quote Originally Posted by nastygts View Post
    Chlorine floater pulled out of the pool 12am Good move.

    Heater off Good move, low pH is hard on a heater.

    FC 3 Too low for your CYA

    CC 0.5 ( very faint pink; add 1 drop and the pink was visibly gone) Good, nothing too scary going on I would think based on that.

    Combine the two 3.5 (Right?) We don't bother with TC. We prefer to know the individual parts (FC and CC).

    PH 6.9 Way too low... you need Borax in there. Pool math tells me 84 ounces by weight of Borax should get you to 7.5

    TA 60 For fiberglass pools 60-80 is the recommended range. Your TA may go up a skosh when you raise your pH. No problem.

    CH 550-575 5 DROPS= PINK 6 DROPS= DARK PINK 10 DROPS= NO CHANGE a bit of water exchange would be good here- about 50%. Either two times and about 1/4 each or once only as long as you can refill it quickly. Fiberglass pools should not ever be drained as they risk "floating". It should also help remove some of the copper in your water.

    CYA 60-70 Manageable but when you change water out this will drop too. Which is usually a GOOD thing!

    CH Home Water Test = 225 That's a great number... especially for a heater. As water evaporates it will rise a bit, but that's a great starting point.

    Worst case I can do a partial drain/refill if unable to correct the levels. You can sequester the metals in your water by using a sequestering agent weekly, but that gets annoying and expensive. I'd vote for partial drain and refill.

    Just out of curiosity; why is the water still clear?
    Because you have copper in the water acting as a bacteristatic but it comes at a price of green hair, metal stains, higher costs.....
    My Amazon Smile for November12K Fiberglass IG, Infinity 4000 automatic cover, SWCG, Hayward Sand Filter, Hayward 1.5 Pump, Doheny Discovery Robot, Savi Melody LED pool lights, outdoor speakers and other assorted doo-dads. Sundance Altamar Hot Tub.
    Our pool build--> Our Pool Solved Our Sloping Yard Skippy's Cheap Pool Cooler -->Skippy's New Fountain

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    nastygts's Avatar
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    Re: Advice/ Help

    10pm Test results

    I now see I got a little carried away when adding the above. The good news; I have M-acid in the garage if needed to lower Ph once everything settles.

    35 minutes after adding and pump circulating:

    FC 12
    CC .5
    PH 8.0-8.2
    TA 100
    CH 550
    CYA 60

    I plan to leave the pump running over night and thru tomorrow's normal cycle.


    I am leaning towards a water exchange. I have 1 1/2 water line that was used when we filled the pool. Situation sucks; but gotta get this in check for what was invested into the backyard oasis

    Thank you again for the help; I as many others feared pulling the trigger when it came to adding stuff to the water.

    I hope to have this copper and CYA issue lined out over the next few days. Will retest and post results.

    On a side note; Borax.... does this change the water consistency and add the "silky" smooth feel? I do not recall which thread I stumbled across while researching to deter flying insects landing on the water.
    Viking Pools Cancun, Saphire color scheme, Deck Jets, Pentair 1.5 super flo pump, Pentair 250K heater, CL Free System

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    Mod Squad YippeeSkippy's Avatar
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    Re: Advice/ Help

    Usually its salt that helps make the water feel nicer. Not sure aboutBorax?

    When you retest your FC in the AM, if it is below 10 jump on testing the pH then and treat as needed with the MA. When FC is >10, the pH test is not reliable.
    My Amazon Smile for November12K Fiberglass IG, Infinity 4000 automatic cover, SWCG, Hayward Sand Filter, Hayward 1.5 Pump, Doheny Discovery Robot, Savi Melody LED pool lights, outdoor speakers and other assorted doo-dads. Sundance Altamar Hot Tub.
    Our pool build--> Our Pool Solved Our Sloping Yard Skippy's Cheap Pool Cooler -->Skippy's New Fountain

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: Advice/ Help

    Here is the borates thread, Borates - Why and How

    Definitely need to get everything under control and stable before borates.

    2000-3000 ppm of salt does make the water softer.
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    Re: Advice/ Help

    Late Morning Test

    FC 9

    CC .5

    PH 8.2

    TA 100

    Pool Calculator recommends 19 oz MA to drop PH to 7.6; going to add 11oz and retest after circulating. Adjust as needed



    Thank you Pooldv; that was exactly what i was looking for.
    Viking Pools Cancun, Saphire color scheme, Deck Jets, Pentair 1.5 super flo pump, Pentair 250K heater, CL Free System

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