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Thread: Hayward Omnilogic Electrical Panel - Wiring Question and Suggestion

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    Hayward Omnilogic Electrical Panel - Wiring Question and Suggestion

    I have an Omnilogic that was in the process of being installed. 30A GFCI breaker from main panel to Omnilogic subpanel using 4 #10 wires (for a 30A max rating).

    My electrician while starting the work looked on the Omnilogic door which had the specifications of 240VAC, 125A Max, 2/0 min which seemed to imply that the cable would have to be a #2 . to add to the confusion elsewhere on the panel is mentioned 240V AC, 125A Max 3 wire plus ground. Next line says Minimum Supply conductor ampacity 125A .

    The electrician felt that it would lead to a failed inspection. He talked to Hayward support and while they agreed that it would be perfectly safe still insisted on using #2 wire saying if in the future I decided to use additional equipment it would be unsafe! Which I find hard to believe since the 30A breaker is supposed to protect exactly that situation.

    Can anyone who has a omnilogic confirm if they have used smaller size wires? Any other thoughts before I talk to my town inspector to get his thoughts.

    And the only equipment I plan to use is a Ecostar (in the future - 10.9A max and the chlorinator from the omnilogic - 5A max)

    I cannot goto a #2 wire as my underground conduit will not support the wiring so that is not an option.

    In the meantime I am sitting with an expensive piece of equipment and still having to dump chlorine!

    Any thoughts or experience would be very welcome!

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    Mod Squad Jimrahbe's Avatar
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    Re: Hayward Omnilogic Electrical Panel - Wiring Question and Suggestion

    I have the EasyTouch instead of the Omnilogic, but have the same situation. The wiring to my panel is rated at 30 amp, which works fine. The rating on the panel is just saying what the maximum amount of amps that the panel can handle and what wiring is required if the full 125 amps was being supplied to the panel. I can't see where wiring for less amperage would be an issue for anyone as long as the wiring used can support the load.

    A quick call to your town inspector should clear it up. I'm glad he is your electrician and not mine..

    Jim R.
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    Re: Hayward Omnilogic Electrical Panel - Wiring Question and Suggestion

    I just passed electrical inspection with 3 #6 and 1 #8 wires feeding my Aquaplus (same panel) on a 60A breaker. The breaker feeding the panel doesn't need to be GFCI. Any circuit powering something NOT in the panel will be GFCI. I have 4 breakers in my panel:

    Controller NOT GFCI
    Convenience outlet NOT GFCI (the outlet itself is)
    Pump (double) GFCI
    Lights GFCI

    I decided to go with 60A as it would allow for a heat pump in the future if we decided to go that route. I'd run the largest wire that will fit in your conduit if your conduit already exists. I bought my wire cut to length online at a MUCH better price than I could find anywhere local.

    ac
    20K gal, IG Fiberglass "Lifetime Pittsburgh", 1 1/2 HP TriStar pump, 525 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPlus T-15 SWG, Dolphin Oasis z5 Robot

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    Mod Squad Jimrahbe's Avatar
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    Re: Hayward Omnilogic Electrical Panel - Wiring Question and Suggestion

    AC,

    I too wanted a 60 amp service to my EasyTouch panel, but before I could tell the PB, they had already wired it for 30 Amps. The cheapest they could get away with. Sigh!!!

    The bid did not say what amperage they were going to install and I was not fully aware of what I really wanted in time. Now, when ever I'm asked about what to think about a quote, for someone installing an automation system, I always try to suggest that the panel be wired for at least 60 Amps.

    Jim R.
    Finished in 2015 - 17K Gal, IG, 20' x 25' Almost Rectangular Pool, Pebble finish, three rockport water falls. Pentair Equipment: EasyTouch 4, IC40 SWG, 3 HP VS Pump, CCP520 Cartridge Filter.
    TF100 with SpeedStir and SampleSizer, ColorQ Pro 7, Dolphin Premier Robot Cleaner, added Screen Logic 2, added small 3 person Calder Spa.

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    Re: Hayward Omnilogic Electrical Panel - Wiring Question and Suggestion

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimrahbe View Post
    AC,

    I too wanted a 60 amp service to my EasyTouch panel, but before I could tell the PB, they had already wired it for 30 Amps. The cheapest they could get away with. Sigh!!!

    The bid did not say what amperage they were going to install and I was not fully aware of what I really wanted in time. Now, when ever I'm asked about what to think about a quote, for someone installing an automation system, I always try to suggest that the panel be wired for at least 60 Amps.

    Jim R.
    Jim,

    Yeah, I waffled about this over and over again. The electrician my PB uses said they do them all 30A. It's "all you need" I was told. I did more research. A lot of guys here say "100A". Well...that was a bit extreme. I've lived in houses that ran just fine on 60A! If my pool was pulling 100A I wouldn't be able to afford to run it! LOL

    I decided to size the service so it could support a heat pump. I couldn't come up with anything else we might ever add in the future. I also ran the wires in 1" conduit. If someone was motivated they could replace my #6 with #4 and grab a few more amps. I also ran a 2nd 1" conduit in the trench for "future". I'll probably drag some CAT5 through there to run a wireless access point to listen to internet radio eventually.

    ac
    20K gal, IG Fiberglass "Lifetime Pittsburgh", 1 1/2 HP TriStar pump, 525 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPlus T-15 SWG, Dolphin Oasis z5 Robot

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    Re: Hayward Omnilogic Electrical Panel - Wiring Question and Suggestion

    Unfortunately, I am limited to 4 #10 wires as I have only a 1/2" conduit and that is the maximum that I can run safely per specs. This already existed in the house I bought, else would definitely have put in larger conduits.

    The one thing that got my electrician to put in a call to Hayward was this on the panel door "240VAC, 125A Max, 2/0 MIN - the last spec 2/0 min is what threw him off. I tried convincing him that what it indicated was that for using 125A 2/0 needed to be used and that for lower requirements sizing could be lower and at that point is when he called Hayward and they confused him further at which point he decided he did not want to get a rejection from the inspector!

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    Re: Hayward Omnilogic Electrical Panel - Wiring Question and Suggestion

    Quote Originally Posted by tap1936 View Post
    Unfortunately, I am limited to 4 #10 wires as I have only a 1/2" conduit and that is the maximum that I can run safely per specs. This already existed in the house I bought, else would definitely have put in larger conduits.

    The one thing that got my electrician to put in a call to Hayward was this on the panel door "240VAC, 125A Max, 2/0 MIN - the last spec 2/0 min is what threw him off. I tried convincing him that what it indicated was that for using 125A 2/0 needed to be used and that for lower requirements sizing could be lower and at that point is when he called Hayward and they confused him further at which point he decided he did not want to get a rejection from the inspector!
    If you already have 1/2" conduit run, you already have the wires run too?

    ac
    20K gal, IG Fiberglass "Lifetime Pittsburgh", 1 1/2 HP TriStar pump, 525 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPlus T-15 SWG, Dolphin Oasis z5 Robot

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    Re: Hayward Omnilogic Electrical Panel - Wiring Question and Suggestion

    Who decided to use 1/2" conduit? Using 1/2" for a pool application is a sign you enjoy pain. 3/4 inch is my minimum for outside and usually its 1". I spent too much time in college pulling wire through long runs of 1/2" while the lead electrician stood by and watched because he was permanently on light duty.


    How long is the run to the main panel?


    I don't see the inspector having a problem if you have sized the main breaker correctly and the wire size matches that breaker. The California inspectors pay a lot more attention to the pool than to the subpanel

    Additionally, I prfer to have only the 220 breakers for the pump to be GFCI. Maybe the lights. If the lights will be run through the automation then you can have a convenience outlet off the panel which can be the GFCI for both the lights and the convenience outlets. That way there less places to look to reset.
    22k gallon IG pebblefina, Jandy 1.5 HP VS, Jandy CV Cartridge filter, Fafco solar panels, Polaris 360 supply side cleaner, waterfall

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    Re: Hayward Omnilogic Electrical Panel - Wiring Question and Suggestion

    Unfortunately, did not have a choice in the size of the conduit. It came with the house and had been put in place by the previous owner. And the wires are already pulled. Would have liked larger conduit.

    The only problem right now for me is the statement on the panel door stating min 2/0 and minimum ampacity 125A. Will the inspectors interpret that to mean that I will need a minimum of #2 wire?

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    Re: Hayward Omnilogic Electrical Panel - Wiring Question and Suggestion

    Quote Originally Posted by tap1936 View Post
    Unfortunately, did not have a choice in the size of the conduit. It came with the house and had been put in place by the previous owner. And the wires are already pulled. Would have liked larger conduit.

    The only problem right now for me is the statement on the panel door stating min 2/0 and minimum ampacity 125A. Will the inspectors interpret that to mean that I will need a minimum of #2 wire?
    I'd be shocked if they even noticed. They will be checking for breaker vs wire size and proper grounding.
    20K gal, IG Fiberglass "Lifetime Pittsburgh", 1 1/2 HP TriStar pump, 525 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPlus T-15 SWG, Dolphin Oasis z5 Robot

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    Re: Hayward Omnilogic Electrical Panel - Wiring Question and Suggestion

    I'd be surprised if they noticed also. They might notice the feed is #10 and wonder why so small. What is the distance from the main panel?
    22k gallon IG pebblefina, Jandy 1.5 HP VS, Jandy CV Cartridge filter, Fafco solar panels, Polaris 360 supply side cleaner, waterfall

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    Re: Hayward Omnilogic Electrical Panel - Wiring Question and Suggestion

    Distance is about 150 feet from main panel. Existing conduit and wires so I cannot go any higher. I did ask the inspector the question about smaller size and higher capacity panel. He said it will pass under code but asked me to consider voltage drop and expandability. Hopefully he doesnt look at the panel label and have any problems.

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    Re: Hayward Omnilogic Electrical Panel - Wiring Question and Suggestion

    My concern was voltage drop. That is awful small wire to run 30 amps from that distance.
    22k gallon IG pebblefina, Jandy 1.5 HP VS, Jandy CV Cartridge filter, Fafco solar panels, Polaris 360 supply side cleaner, waterfall

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    Re: Hayward Omnilogic Electrical Panel - Wiring Question and Suggestion

    Quote Originally Posted by tap1936 View Post
    Distance is about 150 feet from main panel. Existing conduit and wires so I cannot go any higher. I did ask the inspector the question about smaller size and higher capacity panel. He said it will pass under code but asked me to consider voltage drop and expandability. Hopefully he doesnt look at the panel label and have any problems.
    Since this is all "existing", has it ever been inspected in the past? Clearly it all "worked", no? Are you adding anything other than the control panel/SWG?

    ac
    20K gal, IG Fiberglass "Lifetime Pittsburgh", 1 1/2 HP TriStar pump, 525 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPlus T-15 SWG, Dolphin Oasis z5 Robot

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    Re: Hayward Omnilogic Electrical Panel - Wiring Question and Suggestion

    Re: Voltage drop since I am going to need less than 20A, calculations indicate about 2.5% drop which is acceptable. Expandability could be a problem but if I ever need more Amps I will cross that bridge when I come to it.
    All existing but had been wired in differently. And all working. No, adding just the control panel/SWG which includes a electrical sub-panel hence the inspection. Once all this works I will change my pump to a variable speed pump as well.

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    Re: Hayward Omnilogic Electrical Panel - Wiring Question and Suggestion

    Quote Originally Posted by tap1936 View Post
    Re: Voltage drop since I am going to need less than 20A, calculations indicate about 2.5% drop which is acceptable. Expandability could be a problem but if I ever need more Amps I will cross that bridge when I come to it.
    All existing but had been wired in differently. And all working. No, adding just the control panel/SWG which includes a electrical sub-panel hence the inspection. Once all this works I will change my pump to a variable speed pump as well.
    Exactly, I wouldn't get too caught up in the voltage drop. The calculations are done based on pulling the full amps through the wires. This generally is not a common condition to be under unless we are talking a dedicated circuit for a dedicated load.

    Kudos for you for actually getting an inspection. I probably would have just swapped the panel and called it "done", personally.
    20K gal, IG Fiberglass "Lifetime Pittsburgh", 1 1/2 HP TriStar pump, 525 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPlus T-15 SWG, Dolphin Oasis z5 Robot

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    Re: Hayward Omnilogic Electrical Panel - Wiring Question and Suggestion

    Once you hit about 22 amps of current draw on 150' of #10 wire your voltage drop will exceed 3% which is generally considered max acceptable drop. If your pump and SWG only pull 15 amps at max load a #10 wire will be enough with out any problem. Just keep that in mind and if you want to add anything down the road you will need larger cable run.

    Your Omni logical panel is rated to handle 125 amps so the main bus lugs are sized to fit 2/0 cable (its sized that large to accept Aluminum service cable which need to be 2/0 to carry 125amps). Its perfectly fine to supply that panel with only 30 amp service so long as the cable feeding it is protected by the proper breaker which you have already established that it is. The main lug terminal while it can receive up to a 2/0 cable it should have no problem making a solid connection with a 10 gauge wire as well.
    Chuck-
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    Re: Hayward Omnilogic Electrical Panel - Wiring Question and Suggestion

    Just to confirm, there are 4 wires, right?

    You'll need 2 hots, 1 neutral and a ground to set this up as a sub panel properly.
    20K gal, IG Fiberglass "Lifetime Pittsburgh", 1 1/2 HP TriStar pump, 525 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPlus T-15 SWG, Dolphin Oasis z5 Robot

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    Re: Hayward Omnilogic Electrical Panel - Wiring Question and Suggestion


    @CJadamec - Thanks for your explanation. It makes total sense. Not sure why Hayward would put a notation on the panel door indicating MIN size of 2/0 wires and min. ampacity of 125A. That's what threw the electricial off and Hayward support was of no help either.

    @avc8130 - Yes four wires, 2 lives, neutral and ground

    Thanks

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