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Thread: Ready to add Borates...I think...

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    Ready to add Borates...I think...

    Ok, help me out here. I've been battling the 3rd round of 500year floods to hit Texas in a month, and getting my water balanced has been a challenge(to say the least!). But I think I have it and may be ready to add borates. I'm going the Borax route, here is what I got today:

    FC: 3
    CH: 150
    CYA: 30
    TA: 110
    pH: 7.6
    pho: 100
    pool temp:83

    i know my CH is low, do I raise that before the borax addition? Based on pool math, I've got 22boxes of 20MuleTeam and 3 gallons of muriatic acid..

    what at else do I need to be aware of? And how long do I need to keep the kids out of the water after the addition?
    26K gallon IG free form gunite with a 7' round attached spa;2 color pebblesheen; OK flagstone coping with grass/flagstone decking; auto fill; rainbow320 autochlorinator; variable speed pentair 520 cartridge filter; pentair spa heater; polaris280; easy touch controller; 10/2015 completion

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: Ready to add Borates...I think...

    Your TA probably needs to be a lot lower. Is your PH stable or does it rise ?
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    Re: Ready to add Borates...I think...

    Quote Originally Posted by pooldv View Post
    Your TA probably needs to be a lot lower. Is your PH stable or does it rise ?
    pH has been stable, I actually just pushed the TA because it's been sitting at 70....drat!
    26K gallon IG free form gunite with a 7' round attached spa;2 color pebblesheen; OK flagstone coping with grass/flagstone decking; auto fill; rainbow320 autochlorinator; variable speed pentair 520 cartridge filter; pentair spa heater; polaris280; easy touch controller; 10/2015 completion

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    Re: Ready to add Borates...I think...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mitchell5 View Post
    pH has been stable, I actually just pushed the TA because it's been sitting at 70....drat!
    LOL, oops!

    Well, couple of options.
    Wait and see how PH acts, my guess it will rise more quickly than it used to. Adding acid to lower it to 7.2 will slowly lower your TA.
    Or
    You can actively lower it. Here's how, Pool School - Lower Total Alkalinity
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    Re: Ready to add Borates...I think...

    Quote Originally Posted by pooldv View Post
    LOL, oops!

    Well, couple of options.
    Wait and see how PH acts, my guess it will rise more quickly than it used to. Adding acid to lower it to 7.2 will slowly lower your TA.
    Or
    You can actively lower it. Here's how, Pool School - Lower Total Alkalinity
    i need to drop it to about 100, correct?
    26K gallon IG free form gunite with a 7' round attached spa;2 color pebblesheen; OK flagstone coping with grass/flagstone decking; auto fill; rainbow320 autochlorinator; variable speed pentair 520 cartridge filter; pentair spa heater; polaris280; easy touch controller; 10/2015 completion

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    Re: Ready to add Borates...I think...

    Sorry to be blunt or to rain on your parade, but why borates now? You really need to get a good handle on how your pool chemistry works/behaves before you go in this direction.

    Just asking.....
    TFP Moderator 39 X 18 23,000(ish) freeform gunite; built 2007ish; Pentair Triton II TR100 600lb Sand filter; 2 HP Pentair pump with 2.2 HP AO Smith single speed motor; 2 skimmers, 1 main drain, 4 returns w/waterfall, Stenner 45MHP2 3GPD running@ 60% - 15 gal Tank; heated by the sun CYA 200+ when I started - 50 now. Dolphin Supreme M5 Pool Cleaner. Hot Springs SX Spa, 285 gallon

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: Ready to add Borates...I think...

    Tim has a good point.

    If your PH was stable with TA at 70 then I would lower it back to 70.
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    Re: Ready to add Borates...I think...

    For anyone else reading this: get your chemistry solid, your TA in range, and then monitor your PH over an extended period of time to make sure it stays stable. If not, adjust TA and monitor some more. If so, then, and only then, add your borates.

    I did the slow adjustment outlined above (no SWG or constant water feature which can make it harder), and haven't adjusted my pH in 2 years since adding borates. I love them, but I was patient. Be patient.

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    Re: Ready to add Borates...I think...

    It's easier not necessarily cheaper, using boric acid, granular, technical grade. I did the borax route the first time, much easier using boric acid.
    17K Kidney Shaped Pool Concrete (Diamond Bright) Pool, 3/4 hp 2 speed 115V Sta-rite Duraglas PEA5D-180L/P2R5D-181L (Impeller C105-92PS Diffuser C1-216P), 1.5 piping, Pentair CC100 Filter , Heat Siphon 100K BTU Heat Pump Pool Heater, Flow meter Blue White Flowmeter Model No. F-30150P, Hayward Astrolight SP0581N, SWCG CalimarTitanium Edition TE45 , Dolphin Nautilus Plus with CleverClean, Lakeland Florida

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    Re: Ready to add Borates...I think...

    pool builder recommended adding ProTeam to pool, for algaestatic purposes and the decrease chlorine usage. I also like the "feel".. I've been monitoring chemistry, and it's been fairly stable...and TA held at 70 with pH at 7.6. Reading the Chemistry section though, I felt like TA should be about 100 before I started? I'm using trichlor and not a saltwater pool.

    Should I just let it ride for a while and monitor chemistry? Work on getting CH where it needs to be and try again in a couple weeks?

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    Re: Ready to add Borates...I think...

    I think this is what he may be recmmending: http://performancepoolsandhottubs.co...0SUPREME_0.pdf

    It's borates. Just a pricier version. Same as boric acid. So you want to add borates to your pool--Why and How
    17K Kidney Shaped Pool Concrete (Diamond Bright) Pool, 3/4 hp 2 speed 115V Sta-rite Duraglas PEA5D-180L/P2R5D-181L (Impeller C105-92PS Diffuser C1-216P), 1.5 piping, Pentair CC100 Filter , Heat Siphon 100K BTU Heat Pump Pool Heater, Flow meter Blue White Flowmeter Model No. F-30150P, Hayward Astrolight SP0581N, SWCG CalimarTitanium Edition TE45 , Dolphin Nautilus Plus with CleverClean, Lakeland Florida

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    Re: Ready to add Borates...I think...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mitchell5 View Post
    pool builder recommended adding ProTeam to pool, for algaestatic purposes and the decrease chlorine usage. I also like the "feel".. I've been monitoring chemistry, and it's been fairly stable...and TA held at 70 with pH at 7.6. Reading the Chemistry section though, I felt like TA should be about 100 before I started? I'm using trichlor and not a saltwater pool.

    Should I just let it ride for a while and monitor chemistry? Work on getting CH where it needs to be and try again in a couple weeks?
    There is no real "decrease chlorine usage". You should still maintain the same FC/CYA ratio in a borated pool. I am going to assume that your pool builder sells he line of ProTeam Pool care chemicals.

    As you state you are using a trichlor tab chlorinator, are you keeping tabs on the CYA level? Each tab is almost half CYA. It appears that you are trying to mix pool store advice and TFPC advice. Just a warning, it won't work! The pool industry refuses to recognize the connection between CYA/Stabilizer and the ability of chlorine to do it's thing sanitizing the water. others here can give you the scientific details if you want, but lets just say CYA locks the ability of chlorine to sanitize. The more CYA you have the more chlorine you need to keep in the pool to keep algae at bay. I took over my pool with a CYA of about 250 (CYA tests above 100 are just a guess, not very specific contrary to what the pool store says). With a CYA of 250 I had to keep my chlorine level at around 20 just to keep algae away.

    It's your decision. Pool store or TFP. We don't have a magic bullet other than the best pool care chemical there is, chlorine.
    TFP Moderator 39 X 18 23,000(ish) freeform gunite; built 2007ish; Pentair Triton II TR100 600lb Sand filter; 2 HP Pentair pump with 2.2 HP AO Smith single speed motor; 2 skimmers, 1 main drain, 4 returns w/waterfall, Stenner 45MHP2 3GPD running@ 60% - 15 gal Tank; heated by the sun CYA 200+ when I started - 50 now. Dolphin Supreme M5 Pool Cleaner. Hot Springs SX Spa, 285 gallon

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: Ready to add Borates...I think...

    The directions here, Borates - Why and How, it says to lower your TA to the lower end of the range for your pool. If you look here, Pool School - Recommended Levels, the recommended TA for your pool is 70-90. So, that is why I am recommending lowering TA.
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