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Thread: Scale embedded with algae/dirt?

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    Scale embedded with algae/dirt?

    Hello Everyone! First time poster. So to introduce myself Im in western PA and opened to a scale covered liner with algae/dirt all through it from broken cover. Leaves were awful!! I swear i had nightmares about them! Leaves removed by endless hours of scooping/sucking. Found this site through a friend and read everything i could. Ordered my K-2006 slammed for 2 weeks in May. Passed all 3 listed criteria. the dirt or algae in the scale lightened but never really went away. After slamming i read on here to drop my Ph and keep brushing and eventually it will dissipate. Well here we are in June and the scale seems to attract new algae.

    My numbers this morning were FC 6 CC 0 Ph 7.6 (it keeps creeping up on me) TA 150 CH 325 CYA 30 Per pool math CSI -.07

    What to do?? Have 8 kids in and out of pool all day long everyday except for rainy days. Mine are on vaca with the grandparents this week so pool will be kid free! Great time to try and fix this mess!

    All knowledge appreciated!!

    Debbie
    36k vinyl IG, hayward sand filter, 2.5hp hayward pump, Taylor K-2006 kit

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: Scale embedded with algae/dirt?

    Very common for algae to hang out in scale, pits, etc. I would SLAM again all week, even if you pass OCLT. Keep the CSI at -0.7 to -0.8 and keep brushing, it takes lots of time and brushing. You can put some dry acid in a sock and rub it on particularly bad areas to help more. Going forward after this week keep your FC on the higher side of target, Chlorine CYA Chart to keep algae at bay, maybe +1 or +2 ppm. It is safe to swim with FC up to shock level for your CYA, Chlorine CYA Chart
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    Re: Scale embedded with algae/dirt?

    Should i lower my Ph back down? prior to slam? 7.2?
    36k vinyl IG, hayward sand filter, 2.5hp hayward pump, Taylor K-2006 kit

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: Scale embedded with algae/dirt?

    Yes, that is always a good idea, especially so PH doesn't rise during the SLAM and cause more scale!

    And welcome to TFP! I just realized that was your first post. You are so knowledgeable and informed that it seemed like you were an old pro! Even though you said first time poster! LOL!
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    Re: Scale embedded with algae/dirt?

    Well thank you!! Ive have been reading like crazy. I have some old PH minus here. Is it ok to use it up? or go right to the acid? I will take it down to 7 just to be sure. And let the slam commence!!
    36k vinyl IG, hayward sand filter, 2.5hp hayward pump, Taylor K-2006 kit

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    Re: Scale embedded with algae/dirt?

    Yes, ph minus is fine to use up.
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    Re: Scale embedded with algae/dirt?

    Good Morning. i have continued to slam even after passing the criteria as suggested. please see the attached pictures of what i am dealing with. The brownish yellow stuff i am assuming is algae. I have removed the light and scrubbed all the hidden spots but this stuff is like concrete. you can barely scrape it off with your finger nail. the brush makes a powder like cloud when run over the spots. Even after sweeping entire pool it will still give off the cloud when brushed. I am current at FC 12 CC 0. Any suggestions on what else to do. I did drop my Ph to 7.0 before the slam. Plan to slam until Sunday and keep FC higher at 8 even when done.

    .20160609_095933.jpg20160609_095910.jpg
    36k vinyl IG, hayward sand filter, 2.5hp hayward pump, Taylor K-2006 kit

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    Re: Scale embedded with algae/dirt?

    Hi, Tibby - I'm not one of the Pro's here but I have had a similar situation. I can see your water is crystal clear down to the bottom. I think you've already killed all the algae and brushed off the scale, but the leftover particles that settle to the bottom are so fine they can't be trapped by ANY filter. Try manually vacuuming this powdery stuff out to waste. If you can put a reducer on the outflow you won't lose as much water. I use one of the "Eyeball" return fittings rigged up on a backwash/filter valve handle to reduce the flow. It works great. This way you get a 3/4" jet shooting out instead of the full 1-3/4" ID of your filter hoses. Plus it's nice to SEE all the green coming out instead of your filter trying to deal with it. Start adding some water just before you vacuum, and push the vacuum head real slow so you don't stir it up. Good luck!
    7k Gal AG Vinyl Swim N Play 21x12 Oval mostly in the sun, County water
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    Re: Scale embedded with algae/dirt?

    That looks like scale. If you passed the SLAM you can stop now. The SLAM won't help the scale. Keeping your PH at 7.0 and brushing daily, or more will help. The white cloud is good, it is the scale dissolving.

    Check out Poolmath, enter ALL of your test results and it will calculate your CSI score for you. Tweak PH and/or TA to adjust CSI. Keep the CSI -0.6 to -0.8 to help dissolve the scale. This could take weeks, or months, depending on how long it has been builing up. But, it is the safest way to remove it. After the scale is gone keep your CSI between 0 and -0.3 to prevent scale in the future .

    More here, Pool School - Calcium Scaling
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    Re: Scale embedded with algae/dirt?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin from LI View Post
    Hi, Tibby - I'm not one of the Pro's here but I have had a similar situation. I can see your water is crystal clear down to the bottom. I think you've already killed all the algae and brushed off the scale, but the leftover particles that settle to the bottom are so fine they can't be trapped by ANY filter. Try manually vacuuming this powdery stuff out to waste. If you can put a reducer on the outflow you won't lose as much water. I use one of the "Eyeball" return fittings rigged up on a backwash/filter valve handle to reduce the flow. It works great. This way you get a 3/4" jet shooting out instead of the full 1-3/4" ID of your filter hoses. Plus it's nice to SEE all the green coming out instead of your filter trying to deal with it. Start adding some water just before you vacuum, and push the vacuum head real slow so you don't stir it up. Good luck!
    Hi Kevin, thank you for the advice. This is after i vacuumed the whole pool. It wont sweep up or brush off. it is hard and im guessing would need wire brushed but no can do on my vinyl liner
    36k vinyl IG, hayward sand filter, 2.5hp hayward pump, Taylor K-2006 kit

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    Re: Scale embedded with algae/dirt?

    Quote Originally Posted by pooldv View Post
    That looks like scale. If you passed the SLAM you can stop now. The SLAM won't help the scale. Keeping your PH at 7.0 and brushing daily, or more will help. The white cloud is good, it is the scale dissolving.

    Check out Poolmath, enter ALL of your test results and it will calculate your CSI score for you. Tweak PH and/or TA to adjust CSI. Keep the CSI -0.6 to -0.8 to help dissolve the scale. This could take weeks, or months, depending on how long it has been builing up. But, it is the safest way to remove it. After the scale is gone keep your CSI between 0 and -0.3 to prevent scale in the future .

    More here, Pool School - Calcium Scaling

    I have kept high numbers due to the brown/yellow stuff that is stuck in it. As soon as i drop my FC to the recommended level it builds up again on the scale and then moves to the pool walls. When i brush the darker scale it brushes off a tan color. Its very frustrating. Thank you for the link.
    36k vinyl IG, hayward sand filter, 2.5hp hayward pump, Taylor K-2006 kit

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: Scale embedded with algae/dirt?

    Yes, it can be difficult to kill algae that is embedded in scale or pits in plaster. It is certainly fine to continue to keep FC elevated and lower your CSI and brush a lot. You are correct, no metal brush in a vinyl pool.
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    Re: Scale embedded with algae/dirt?

    I am in need of some TFP wisdom!! I slammed for 6 days at 12. Let my FC fall to 8 then tested Ph. Was 7.8 2 days ago. Added 4 lbs of Ph minus cause i have some here i bought before i found this wonderful forum. Yesterday Ph 7.6. Added another 4 lbs Ph minus. today here is my full set of numbers.

    FC 3.5
    CC 0
    PH 7.4
    TA 125
    CH 325
    CYA 30

    I have 8 more lbs of Ph minus left but it seems like that is alot to put in for such a small change in Ph level. Any advice on what to do additional. I need to keep it at 6.8 per pool math to get my CSI at the recommended level to dissolve the scale.

    This is where my knowledge gets elementary And where can i get the dry acid to lower my Ph instead of the Ph minus?

    Thanks!!
    36k vinyl IG, hayward sand filter, 2.5hp hayward pump, Taylor K-2006 kit

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: Scale embedded with algae/dirt?

    Ok, good job jumping in and working on your pool. Couple of points to clear up.

    It is important to keep PH between 7.2 and 7.8. Maybe take it to 7.0 temporarily to work on the scale, but 7.2 would be better and I would try that first. TA also impacts CSI and is reasonably easy to move.

    Muriatic acid is best used to lower PH. Here is a hand page on pool chemicals to print or bookmark, Pool School - Recommended Pool Chemicals
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