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Thread: Out with the old...

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    KineKilla's Avatar
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    Out with the old...

    So, after being in our new home for 1 year and dealing with the nuisance voltage felt due to improper bonding, we have decided to have the pool removed and a new one installed.

    What price can be expected for the removal of a 33k gallon vinyl with probably a gunite replacement? Is there any advantage to a fiberglass vs. gunite vs. vinyl? Obviously I already have the power, equipment ,excavation and solar heat in place so it would primarily be a concrete deck removal (which I'm willing to do myself) and existing pool removal (also willing to diy).

    Any ideas what having just the plumbing, rebar, bonding and pool surface installed would cost?
    Polar Pools, 19' x 39' Vinyl Lined IG, 3' to 9' deep, 33,300 Gallons?
    Pentair Intelliflo VS, Hayward Sand Filter Model # S244T, Compupool SWG, Heliocol Solar Heating
    K-2006 test kit, 1766 Salt Test Kit , Taylor SpeedStir
    Built in 2009, Salt Lake City, UT.

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    Re: Out with the old...

    Many, many thousands. Since this is a completely custom scenario with extraction, rebuild using existing equipment, it is difficult to help you get a idea of the cost. You are going to have to start calling around and get some estimates. It might take a while since this is the busy season.
    Matt
    2016 Pool Build: 12k IG Blue Granite Pebblesheen, Travertine Coping & Pavers, Pentair IntelliFlo, Intellichlor, Easytouch, Clean & Clear 320, Heliocol Solar - TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    SWG Run Time Calculator

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    Re: Out with the old...

    Have you given any thought to having a certified electrician who is familiar with pool bonding (equipotential bonding) give you an estimate on correctly bonding your pool and equipment? I'm sure the cost would be a lot less than removing your existing IG pool and replacing with new.
    Gene
    ​12,300 gal IG play pool - Pebbletec - built 10/1999 || Hayward S360SX 36" sand filter || Hayward Ecostar SP3400 VSP || A&A In-Floor cleaning system || Quik Water Leveler || Quik Dek-clor (limited use)
    TF-100 testkit / Speedstir - A good test kit is not an expense, it's an investment

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    Re: Out with the old...

    Quote Originally Posted by proavia View Post
    Have you given any thought to having a certified electrician who is familiar with pool bonding (equipotential bonding) give you an estimate on correctly bonding your pool and equipment? I'm sure the cost would be a lot less than removing your existing IG pool and replacing with new.
    Good idea

    Matt
    2016 Pool Build: 12k IG Blue Granite Pebblesheen, Travertine Coping & Pavers, Pentair IntelliFlo, Intellichlor, Easytouch, Clean & Clear 320, Heliocol Solar - TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    SWG Run Time Calculator

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    Mod Squad kimkats's Avatar
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    Re: Out with the old...

    In truth I think it will be MORE than just building a pool as there will be many things that will have to be reworked and done different. I would go with the above idea.

    Kim
    TFP Moderator 33x52 round AG 25,600 gals Sand Filter 1.5hp Pump - 2 Speed, SLAM, Pool School, Recommended Levels, Recommended Chemicals, Pool Math, Chlorine/CYA Chart, TF-100 Test Kit

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    twinkiesmommy2009's Avatar
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    Re: Out with the old...

    Where are you located?


    Started 5/31/16. 38'x23', 618 sqft., <14,000 gallons, 8' spa.Travertine coping. Raised beam w/3 sheers. Large sunshelf w/3 bubblers. SWG IC40, Pentair VSP, 520 cartridge, color LED lights, Easy-touch, screen logic, Maytronics S300i robot, and Wet Edge Prism Matrix finish (Deep Sea Blue with Indigo plaster). Build Thread: Another in Texas - Cypress Texas | MUD District | HOA Approval | Great Escapes Pools

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    KineKilla's Avatar
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    Re: Out with the old...

    Quote Originally Posted by proavia View Post
    Have you given any thought to having a certified electrician who is familiar with pool bonding (equipotential bonding) give you an estimate on correctly bonding your pool and equipment? I'm sure the cost would be a lot less than removing your existing IG pool and replacing with new.
    I had an electrician come out and try to identify the source of the voltage as well as do what was possible to check the integrity of the existing bonding. I can tell just from looking at the bonding wire where readily visible that it is NOT the #8 bare CU wire that it required. They used #8 stranded, insulated wire instead and it is connected to two separate copper ground rods. One sticking out of the deck and the other just outside the equipment shed.

    The pool light bond also uses 8 stranded but was connected to the shared ground for the light (110v wiring ground). My ladder does not seem to conduct the electricity through its hinge...not sure why as it seems to be made of aluminum but if it did it could potentially serve as a water to deck bond.

    My assumption (after extensive testing with a multi-meter) is that the voltage is in the soil and deck but a good bond to the water is not existent. I have also installed one of those "bonding couplers" they sell in my plumbing but that didn't help.

    I called the city when I first discovered the issue and the previous owner never pulled a permit and therefore skipped any inspections.

    After all this, I'm unaware of any way to bond the pool water to the pool deck without removing the coping, installing a metal grid and then repouring the deck...any other way to go about this? I considered saw cutting a slot in the deck all the way around the pool, dropping in the required #8 solid CU wire and running it to all ladders, rails, slide, then up to the equipment pad. Unfortunately that is a lot of work for an idea that may not fix the issue due to the lack of surface area a single strand of #8 would provide to the concrete deck.

    One of my biggest frustrations is that the previous owner and assumed DIY installer was an electrical contractor that owned his own company, and should have known better. I have sent emails to every pool builder in Northern UT. but as mentioned, it is now 100 degrees here and getting any kind of response is proving very difficult.
    Polar Pools, 19' x 39' Vinyl Lined IG, 3' to 9' deep, 33,300 Gallons?
    Pentair Intelliflo VS, Hayward Sand Filter Model # S244T, Compupool SWG, Heliocol Solar Heating
    K-2006 test kit, 1766 Salt Test Kit , Taylor SpeedStir
    Built in 2009, Salt Lake City, UT.

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    twinkiesmommy2009's Avatar
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    Re: Out with the old...

    Bumping your post. Electric is not my area of expertise.


    Started 5/31/16. 38'x23', 618 sqft., <14,000 gallons, 8' spa.Travertine coping. Raised beam w/3 sheers. Large sunshelf w/3 bubblers. SWG IC40, Pentair VSP, 520 cartridge, color LED lights, Easy-touch, screen logic, Maytronics S300i robot, and Wet Edge Prism Matrix finish (Deep Sea Blue with Indigo plaster). Build Thread: Another in Texas - Cypress Texas | MUD District | HOA Approval | Great Escapes Pools

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    borjis's Avatar
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    Re: Out with the old...

    One way to bond the water is through a skimmer with built in metal plate. There is a company that makes these and they are ul listed.

    can't find it but here is an add on:

    Amazon.com: Burndy Waterbug Pool Water Bonding Kit Ul: Kitchen Dining

    Hearing about bonding wires that are not solid core connected to grounding rods sounds very hokey, no wonder you have
    a problem.

    If I were you I would just demo the deck and get a new bonding grid in place then get the skimmer metal plate or
    a new skimmer with it built in.

    No reason to spend thousands more rebuilding it entirely.
    16x32 IG Vinyl, 13,000 Gals. Hayward S-244T sand filter, SP2810X15 pump
    (1.5 HP motor) Raypak PR266AEN (266k btu) gas heater. TF-100 Test Kit.
    Dolphin E10 Cleaning Robot.

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    Casey's Avatar
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    Re: Out with the old...

    If the pool was never inspected and no permits were ever pulled, the city may say the pool has to go. You never know what they may make a home owner do with an illegal structure. I'm surprised the old home owner got away with building this pool.
    I'd bet you my bikini you'll never get TFP water from a pool store!

    24' Sharkline Venture De Filter

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    KineKilla's Avatar
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    Re: Out with the old...

    Quote Originally Posted by borjis View Post
    One way to bond the water is through a skimmer with built in metal plate. There is a company that makes these and they are ul listed.

    can't find it but here is an add on:

    Amazon.com: Burndy Waterbug Pool Water Bonding Kit Ul: Kitchen Dining

    Hearing about bonding wires that are not solid core connected to grounding rods sounds very hokey, no wonder you have
    a problem.

    If I were you I would just demo the deck and get a new bonding grid in place then get the skimmer metal plate or
    a new skimmer with it built in.

    No reason to spend thousands more rebuilding it entirely.
    I'd love to do this exact thing, however I fear that since the coping is a rounded, bullnose type, is full of the deck concrete and it also holds the liner in place it would need to come off or would get irreparably damaged during the deck removal which would necessitate its replacement anyways. I don't know how these aluminum coping strips are supposed to be bonded, do they have bonding lugs soldered into the inside of them to attach the bonding wire to? I have no problem replacing only the deck and in fact would prefer it but I'm just not sure that it won't lead to a full replacement in the end.

    Quote Originally Posted by Casey View Post
    If the pool was never inspected and no permits were ever pulled, the city may say the pool has to go. You never know what they may make a home owner do with an illegal structure. I'm surprised the old home owner got away with building this pool.
    This is true, they may very well say that. Around here, if you don't get caught during the install you can pretty much build anything you want. If it were an illegal structure (above ground and visible from the road) I'm sure someone would have caught it but since it is located behind a 9' block wall, I'm betting nobody ever saw it going in.
    Polar Pools, 19' x 39' Vinyl Lined IG, 3' to 9' deep, 33,300 Gallons?
    Pentair Intelliflo VS, Hayward Sand Filter Model # S244T, Compupool SWG, Heliocol Solar Heating
    K-2006 test kit, 1766 Salt Test Kit , Taylor SpeedStir
    Built in 2009, Salt Lake City, UT.

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    Re: Out with the old...

    The previous owner has to take responsibility for the corrections that must be made. I am not an advocate of suing but this is the whole reason permitting was started in the first place to make sure a bare minimum code was followed in construction. I have looked into the same change for my pool. I have a 16x32 in ground liner pool. I was told by a local pool installer that it would be considerably cheaper to change to gunite if I removed the deck, side walls and all vermiculite. They will not guarentee any of the plumbing if I choose to reuse it.

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    ckk81's Avatar
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    Re: Out with the old...

    Quote Originally Posted by KineKilla View Post
    I'd love to do this exact thing, however I fear that since the coping is a rounded, bullnose type, is full of the deck concrete and it also holds the liner in place it would need to come off or would get irreparably damaged during the deck removal which would necessitate its replacement anyways.
    Even if you need a new liner it would be a lot less expensive then a complete redo.
    30K? gal (20x40, 3ft shallow to 8-9ft hopper), Vinyl IG, single speed 1HP pump, Hayward Micro Clear DE-3600 filter, Hayward Aqua Rite SWG T15 Cell, Rheem/Raypack M206A heater

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    ellsian's Avatar
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    Re: Out with the old...

    So the pool is actually give you shocks of electricity when you use it? Holy cow.
    Swim ready :) My Pool Build Thread. IG shotcrete 34x16 Grecian shape. 22k gallons. 3'6 - 8'6 deep. 12x5 Baja ledge w/ 2 Bubblers, 14' raised beam sheer descent waterfall in stacked rock. Custom stone diving board. Hayward sand filter, VS pump, Aquarite T-15 SWCG. A&A In floor system w/ Gamma 4 venturi heads, Blue surf Pebble sheen, Colorlogic LED. Future Travertine Sandcastle Owner.

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