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Thread: TFP Method and a rigorous travel schedule?

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    TFP Method and a rigorous travel schedule?

    I am very interested in using the TFP method with my new pool. My concern is that I travel pretty extensively, often 3-4 days a week, every week. My wife is not so pool maintenance inclined. I see people mention using the pucks when they are going on vacation or gone for the weekend. In my case, this would be every week.

    Is utilizing this method possible when you travel alot?
    Construction began 5/2016. IGF pool. 41' x 21'. Jandy DEV60, Jandy 2hp 2sp pump, Polaris 280 Black Max, Rainbow 320 chlorinator, Jandy JXI 400, Jandy iAqualink, Jandy LED's. 2'x2'x10' rock weeping wall. Dive rock. Tile/Plaster: NPT Silverstone AquaMarine Decking: Stained Stamped Concrete/Stonescapes Aqua Blue with glass beads and abalone. http://www.troublefreepool.com/threa...-Fort-Worth-TX

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: TFP Method and a rigorous travel schedule?

    Sounds like a SWG or automated dosing system (Liquidator or peristaltic pump) would be a good investment.
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    Mod Squad JohnT's Avatar
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    Re: TFP Method and a rigorous travel schedule?

    Yes.

    Our method is really just knowledge. Knowing what is happening in your pool, which is why we so strongly encourage test kits, and knowing how adding chemicals affects your water.

    In your case, I'd consider a SWCG or a Stenner setup with liquid chlorine. Chlorine is the thing that needs to be adjusted daily, most of the rest can be taken care of weekly.
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    Re: TFP Method and a rigorous travel schedule?

    Adding Trichlor (pucks) will raise your CYA, eventually to the point it's so high maintaining your pool will be difficult. (Read the Pool School pages to learn more about pool chemistry, or search on 'high CYA' here.)

    TFP method involves routinely adding liquid chlorine to maintain levels.
    For your situation, a Hasa Liquidator would work. It adds a little (adjustable) liquid chlorine every day, holds up to about 6 gallons of liquid chlorine, should last ~10-14days. You might consider SWG too.

    (The chlorinator you have dissolves Trichlor pucks.)

    Adding boric acid, a solar cover, and maintaining CYA ~40-60 to protect Cl from sun should help beyond that.


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    Divin Dave's Avatar
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    Re: TFP Method and a rigorous travel schedule?

    I think the SWG would the best option for you. It will continually add chlorine. The only thing that needs to be done is for your wife to give a peek at it maybe once a day to make sure the GENERATING light is on, just to make sure it's working.

    And she can empty the skimmer too!
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    Re: TFP Method and a rigorous travel schedule?

    Thanks guys. I think the SWG option is not a player for us. We originally wanted to go that way but then the wife found out she couldn't have her stone coping with it, and that was out. We've seen coping eroded away on friends pools with SWG's, and were advised against it. I guess you can seal the stone, but... Plus the initial expense is much higher than budgeted for. Interestingly, it seems several our friends that have SWG's are shutting them down and going back conventional.

    I anticipate the pool to be about 35,000 - 37,000 gallons. We live in Texas where it is hot, have kids, and the kids have friends... The pool will get used alot. Right now we are spec'd with the puck system, and I understand now why that's not a great idea(CYA).

    About how many gallons a week of liquid chlorine are we talking here? I realize that's a big variable(concentration, use level, sun etc...), and I'm not dosing off this. I just have no idea. Let's just assume a 1 gallon bottle of Chlorox is what I have available. Would a reasonable guess be 1 gallon a week? 10 gallons a week? 30 gallons? Even just your own anecdotal usage would be very helpful.

    Which option would be better, the liquidator or the Stenner option? The liquidator looks to be pretty turn key, and I've found a few turnkey options for the Stenner as well, but it's obviously more expensive. Would either system be likely to keep up with demand while I'm gone?

    Without angering the TFP God's too much, absent a chlorinator system, would it be possible to overdose a little before I left on a trip, and then let it drift down while I'm gone? Or is the burnoff rate faster than what I could safely overdose?

    Thank you so much for your help!
    Construction began 5/2016. IGF pool. 41' x 21'. Jandy DEV60, Jandy 2hp 2sp pump, Polaris 280 Black Max, Rainbow 320 chlorinator, Jandy JXI 400, Jandy iAqualink, Jandy LED's. 2'x2'x10' rock weeping wall. Dive rock. Tile/Plaster: NPT Silverstone AquaMarine Decking: Stained Stamped Concrete/Stonescapes Aqua Blue with glass beads and abalone. http://www.troublefreepool.com/threa...-Fort-Worth-TX

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    Re: TFP Method and a rigorous travel schedule?

    The burnoff rate would be too quick. For example, if you dosed up to 10 ppm right before you left town and let's assume that you lost 50% of your chlorine each day (not unlikely during summer and with your expected pool load), you would be down to about 1 ppm after 4 days.

    Quote Originally Posted by Technobuyer
    About how many gallons a week of liquid chlorine are we talking here?
    Using me as an example, I lose about 40% of my chlorine per day during June - Aug. I'm adding about 80 oz of bleach per day which is about 2/3 of a bottle (bottle size 121 oz - just under a gallon). So that works out to about 5 bottles per week. Adjusting for the size of your pool, you would be looking at about 7 bottles per week at the same chlorine loss rate. However, I would figure in a slightly higher loss rate since your pool load will be higher than mine. Adding a couple of extra bottles per week would put you at about 9 bottles per week.
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    Re: TFP Method and a rigorous travel schedule?

    Quote Originally Posted by BoDarville View Post
    Adding a couple of extra bottles per week would put you at about 9 bottles per week.
    I seem to have seriously miscalculated this pool maintenance thing.

    So with even more concentrated stuff than the off the shelf Chlorox, I guess it would be somewhat fewer bottles. What do ya'll do with all those bottles? A doser of some sort going to have to happen. It looks like a liquidator only hold 8 gallons. With it all dialed in, maybe I could down to just filling the liquidator once a week, and maybe supplementing a little when I'm home?

    Expectation with the Stenner set up pretty much the same?

    I kept a large reeftank for about 10 years. Lots of water quality/level monitoring, automation to keep it all running while I was gone etc... I feel like I just bought a 37,000 gallon reef tank. Without the fish and corals.

    This puck system was sold to us under the notion that all I had to do was throw these pucks in the canister, and I'm good to go. Test the levels once in a while... At least I'm learning this stuff before there's a problem. Thank you again for help!
    Construction began 5/2016. IGF pool. 41' x 21'. Jandy DEV60, Jandy 2hp 2sp pump, Polaris 280 Black Max, Rainbow 320 chlorinator, Jandy JXI 400, Jandy iAqualink, Jandy LED's. 2'x2'x10' rock weeping wall. Dive rock. Tile/Plaster: NPT Silverstone AquaMarine Decking: Stained Stamped Concrete/Stonescapes Aqua Blue with glass beads and abalone. http://www.troublefreepool.com/threa...-Fort-Worth-TX

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    Re: TFP Method and a rigorous travel schedule?

    If you travel regularly throughout the year, the hardest months for you will be June - Aug. Once we hit Labor Day, the chlorine demand in my pool drops dramatically - I would know when Labor Day hits just from chlorine testing alone. I should have mentioned that I keep my CYA on the low side (between 30-40 ppm). If your pool is in full sun (like mine), you could try maintaining the CYA at around 50 ppm which will slow the chlorine loss somewhat. I'm traveling more myself this year and may experiment with keeping CYA between 40-50 ppm and see how that works.

    BTW, I do not have first-hand experience with either a Liquidator or Stenner. Only observation I can offer is that I have seen more posts in the last year or two inquiring about the Stenner and other peristaltic pumps vs. the Liquidator.
    Gold Supporter, TFP Lifetime Supporter, 26,680 gal Plaster IGP 3.5 - 10' depth / Attached Waterfall Spa, Manually Chlorinated, Triton Sand Filter, 1.5 HP * 1.1 SF = 1.65 SFHP 1-speed Pentair WhisperFlo WF-26 Pump, 400K BTU NG Teledyne Laars Series One Heater, Polaris 360, Test Kit Comparison, Chlorine/CYA Chart, SLAMing Your Pool, OCLT
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    Re: TFP Method and a rigorous travel schedule?

    A pool cover is a good option for cutting down FC demand. Some liquid chlorine suppliers sell trade chlorine in re-usable carboys so you can pay a deposit initially and return / swap the empties for fulls, if that's available in your area. Another helpful aspect is that you'll be able to use the pucks at times, as long as you're staying aware of your CYA level. Around 20 lbs of trichlor per year equates to roughly 20 days of summer chlorine demand and contributes 40 PPM CYA, and this option can be handy for vacations.

    I respect what must have been a difficult decision not to use a SWG. It's certainly convenient to make your own chlorine on site. It's fair to mention that liquid chlorinated pools have salt in them, so I wonder if the salt and stone issue arose as an excuse for something else, like poor performance of stone due to water balance issues or the use of stone which may have been too soft and flaky for a pool deck. There's plenty of salt/stone threads here that you can explore and you will hear quite a range of opinions! It's certainly common down here to have saltwater with limestone, sandstone and slate, but we don't get freeze/thaw so likely not a fair comparison.
    12k IG salt; glass beads in plaster; K-2006C, K-1766, CCL, and Aussie 4in1 (HTH); Pentair Eco800 1.2HP VS; Zodiac SWC 1.3 lb/day (25 g/hr); 25" filter recycled glass; OKU solar panels; 1/2 HP solar pump; Rebel (Warrior) pool cleaner; FlowViz; prior pool AG 10k | Read Before Posting to get the best possible advice | ... and this helped me a lot!: TFPC for Beginners

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    Re: TFP Method and a rigorous travel schedule?

    There are some folks that say that stone coping and SWG do not mix may be a little overplayed. We have travertine coping and pool decking and starting about 3 months ago I was using a Stenner tank for chlorine addition. Even with the Stenner I noticed there as some pitting of the travertine but it was rough and it is natural product so some of that is to be expected. Since switching to SWG I have not noticed any change in my travertine. Mind you it has only been a few months so a longer period of time will be required but I firmly believe water chemistry is more important to maintaining stone around the pool and pool equipment. With your travel schedule I would look again more closely at SWG. BoDarville is spot on in his estimate on the amount of chlorine you will use given the size, use and sun exposure. For those of us in Texas between Memorial day and Labor day is when chlorine gets burned off the most. Add the heavy rains we have had in Texas recently and it has been more of a challenge.

    With a SWG I still test frequently and have to add some chlorine on occasion but it is rare. I'm keeping my Stenner for the fall and winter when I will disconnect my SWG and go back to pumping. During the cooler months I have to fill the tank less often.
    40x15 IG, 19,000 gallons, Taylor K-2006C, Intellichlor IC40, Pentiar 1.5 hp Intelliflo VS, Pentair 420 Clean/Clear Filter, Speedstir, Stonescape - french grey, Travertine Paver decking, Completed August 1, 2015.

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    Re: TFP Method and a rigorous travel schedule?

    Now human nature has a thing call "confirmation bias", so we want other people to confirm what we did was right by following our lead. Understanding that, I will say I love my Stenner Pump. I have is set up with a 15 gallon tank so I can go two to three weeks without a refill in the summer. With a similar sized tank I can see you easily going two weeks once you get the CYA dialed in.

    See my Stenner Pump install here.

    The other problem you are going to have is pH rise. With new plaster and water features like your weeping wall you pH is going to rise daily. You may get away with taking it down to 7.2 before you leave town, but I'm afraid it's gonna be pretty high by the time you get home four or five days later. This is the other issue you will need to deal with.
    TFP Moderator 39 X 18 23,000(ish) freeform gunite; built 2007ish; Pentair Triton II TR100 600lb Sand filter; 2 HP Pentair pump with 2.2 HP AO Smith single speed motor; 2 skimmers, 1 main drain, 4 returns w/waterfall, Stenner 45MHP2 3GPD running@ 60% - 15 gal Tank; heated by the sun CYA 200+ when I started - 50 now. Dolphin Supreme M5 Pool Cleaner. Hot Springs SX Spa, 285 gallon

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    Re: TFP Method and a rigorous travel schedule?

    what kind of stone does your wife want and your friends have that are eroding? Just curious, I see you are in TX, and I'm betting it's limestone/flagstone/sandstone that is soft.

    As someone who also didn't want a saltwater pool due to what I perceive to be the corrosive nature of them ( I am originally from TX, parents had a SWG pool and got rid of the salt to fix the erosion of their flagstone), I just want to warn you that about 2 weeks after starting TFP, I dumped 6 bags of salt in my 20k gallon pool. My eyes were burning after swimming under water, and the folks on this forum assured me that it wasn't in fact the chlorine that was burning my eyes, it was my lack of salt. I tested, and added salt to get me to 2000ppm. It's only been another week since I did it, but so far so good. My eyes are definitely happier.

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    Re: TFP Method and a rigorous travel schedule?

    Espejo,

    Thanks for the feedback. I love Travertine. It would be my first choice. Sadly the budget wasn't big enough. That amount of Chlorine is scary to be dealing with. I think I see a Stenner mod in my future.


    Quote Originally Posted by camueller View Post
    what kind of stone does your wife want and your friends have that are eroding? Just curious, I see you are in TX, and I'm betting it's limestone/flagstone/sandstone that is soft.
    Yes, you nailed it. We are using sandstone flagstone. As you know, it is soft as those things go. That's funny about having to add salt back in. Hopefully we get away without doing that.

    Tim,

    I've been doing lots of reading on the Stenner. It's the only solution that really makes sense for my application. That's interesting about the PH. What strategies do you suggest?
    Construction began 5/2016. IGF pool. 41' x 21'. Jandy DEV60, Jandy 2hp 2sp pump, Polaris 280 Black Max, Rainbow 320 chlorinator, Jandy JXI 400, Jandy iAqualink, Jandy LED's. 2'x2'x10' rock weeping wall. Dive rock. Tile/Plaster: NPT Silverstone AquaMarine Decking: Stained Stamped Concrete/Stonescapes Aqua Blue with glass beads and abalone. http://www.troublefreepool.com/threa...-Fort-Worth-TX

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    Mod Squad tim5055's Avatar
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    Re: TFP Method and a rigorous travel schedule?

    Quote Originally Posted by Technobuyer View Post
    I've been doing lots of reading on the Stenner. It's the only solution that really makes sense for my application. That's interesting about the PH. What strategies do you suggest?
    With a new plaster pool there are no real "strategies" other than trying to find the sweet spot of TA that allows the slowes pH rise. With new plaster, teh pH is going to rinse. No doubt about it. How much and how quickly is individual to each pool. You may find that you can get two or three days between additions of acid or you may need it every day. Testing and time will show what your pools appetite for acid is.

    The only way that I know of is another Stenner injecting acid if you demand is that high.
    TFP Moderator 39 X 18 23,000(ish) freeform gunite; built 2007ish; Pentair Triton II TR100 600lb Sand filter; 2 HP Pentair pump with 2.2 HP AO Smith single speed motor; 2 skimmers, 1 main drain, 4 returns w/waterfall, Stenner 45MHP2 3GPD running@ 60% - 15 gal Tank; heated by the sun CYA 200+ when I started - 50 now. Dolphin Supreme M5 Pool Cleaner. Hot Springs SX Spa, 285 gallon

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