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Thread: Lost PB - Need Advice on Equipment

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    Lost PB - Need Advice on Equipment

    We lost our PB right after shotcrete was complete. He favored Hayward equipment. Our new PB is really helping us out of the goodness of his heart to try finish this summer in between his other jobs and is helping me find subs to do different aspects. He favors Pentair and told me to be sure to tell them the equipment pad is over 80 feet from the edge of the pool. I spoke to 2 different Pentair tech reps and the second one specialized in commercial, which I realize our pool size is bordering in size, and he felt we needed two filters, two heaters (since we want to swim in late fall and early spring in TN) and 2 Salt Chlorinators. I am now wondering if he said 2 pumps also - my notes aren't clear on this. So I wanted to ask my TFP friends to weigh in on this very big decision. Their recommendations were:

    Intelliflow XF - 3 HP Variable Speed Pump - Pentair reps said it would save electricity over the single speed pumps and both reps said it would require 3 inch suction pipe (since pool is so far from the equipment pad) and then it would do 150 gallons per minute;

    Clean and Clear Plus 520 Cartridge Filter - Second Pentair Rep said we should have 2 of these and plumb them in parallel because even though the filter flow rate is 150,000 gallons, he would never want to push that through the filter because it would get dirty really quickly and would have to be cleaned every week; that if you pump through 2 filters, it would run at lower pressure "nice and slow" and there would be longer cycle times between cleanings.

    Heater - Rep said the largest is the 400,000 and only good for 30,000 gallons so he said we needed 2 if we wanted to swim in cold weather; that we should buy the Heavy Duty model that is made for salt water - has cupro-nickel heat exchanger. Either

    Master Temp (Pentair) Heavy Duty Part 460805 or
    Maxi Therm (StayRite - egg-shaped and smaller) SR400HD

    (any preference between these?)

    They said it was important to T off to 3 inch pipe.

    Salt Chlorinator - Intellichlor 60 - made for 60,0000 gallons, but rep said I still needed 2.

    We plan to use an EasyTouch Screen Logic controller - not sure if there are decisions on this.

    Any advice appreciated.

    I have light and plaster questions/decisions, but I will put them on another thread.

    Thanks.
    25 x 60 IG, 10' sunshelf, 24' sh, 26' dp; 57,600 gallons; 8' Jump Board; Hayward Equipment: 2 Sand Filters 36" Tank S360T2; 2 TriStar 5.0 HP FR Pumps SP3250EE; 2 Natural Gas Heaters H400FDN; OmniLogic; Sense & Dispense HL-CHEM; 2 SWG; pH Dispense Acid Feed System AQL-CHEM4-ACID; 2 systems work independently; Hydrazzo Plaster; TigerShark 2 Plus Commercial Robotic; 1 Spa and 3 ColorLogic lights; CoverStar automatic cover.

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    Re: Lost PB - Need Advice on Equipment

    I have light and plaster questions/decisions, but I will put them on another thread.
    please do not start another thread. Keep your build right here so everyone can see your whole story.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Re: Lost PB - Need Advice on Equipment

    WOW, that is a big pool Sorry about losing your pool builder

    Let's see here..

    Pump: That is the exact pump I would recommend, make sure you also have a surge protector like one of these
    Amazon.com: Eaton 109420 Ultra Surge Protection 3Rd Edition: Electronics
    Intermatic AG3000 120/240 VAC Universal HVAC Surge Protective Device - Computer Surge Protectors - Amazon.com

    Filter: unless you really want a cartridge filter on that size pool I would go big huge sand filter as it will be less time cleaning and just way less frustrating for you.. (unless you really want to clean 8 cart filters for about 2 hours)

    A pentair TR140C-3 will hold 925 pounds of sand and is a monster filter
    Pentair TR140C-3 Triton C-3 36in. Sand Commercial Pool Filter with 3in. Flange
    http://edc.poolsupplyworld.com/wpdf/pentritoncds.pdf

    We alway recommend 2 to 3 times the size SWG so the min would be 2 60K generators.. here is a great comparison page Full Market Comparison of Salt Water Chlorine Generators for Swimming Pools
    the IC60 puts out 2 pounds a day but the new curcupool RJ60 plus puts out over 3 pounds a day

    I hope this helps
    Pool: Intex 16x32 15000 gal, 2 speed 340042, Pentair CC320 Filter, CircuPool SJ45 Salt System, Intermatic PE653RC; Hot Tub: 650 Gal SWG Megachlor
    links: pool school * Recommended-Levels * SLAM * CYA chart * Test kits * How To Post Pictures * Poolmath * OCLT ** Support your website if we helped you :) **

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    Re: Lost PB - Need Advice on Equipment

    Ok, I will take a stab at this, making the assumption that you plan to keep the auto cover closed except when the pool is in use, or at least mostly so. This will greatly limit the amount of debris that gets into the pool, and also greatly lower the amount of chlorine needed by the pool due to lower organic matter load as well as less sunlight exposure. I am basing this on having an indoor pool myself which is sheltered from larger debris leaving the filter to mostly deal with dust, bugs, etc. that get in when the doors are open or get pulled inside by the high volume exhaust fans. In the case of my pool with very minimal UV light exposure (just the small part that gets through the lexan skylights and the glass doors) I find my chlorine use at about 25% of the typical similar sized outdoor pool found here on the TFP forum.

    I would therefore suggest staying with the 3HP Intelliflo, adding only a single large cartridge filter, and single 60,000 gallon capacity SWG, as to the heater, you may very well need two, but I will leave that topic up to those that live closer to your actual climate. For safety sake in case I am wrong about your coverage habits, you may want to leave room to easily add a second filter and SWG.
    Indoor 20x40 35,000 gallon vinyl pool with 1.5 HP 2 speed Jandy FloPro pump, Hayward EC75 Perflex DE filter, 11 4x12 Techno-Solis solar panels w/ Aquasolar controller, Aquabot Turbo T Robot Cleaner. Also LMI metering chlorine dispenser pump and HotSpring Jetsetter
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    Re: Lost PB - Need Advice on Equipment

    Thank you all.

    We do intend to keep the cover on except when we are swimming. This will be especially important as I just learned that we are exempt from county fence requirements because of the automatic cover.

    I studied the Discount Salt Pool (DSP) brand comparisons and see that CircuPool's RJ-60 Plus has a value score of 99.8 and the Pentair IntelliChlor IC60 only 46.1 - huge difference. A DSP rep told me that I might want to go with two RJ-45 Plus models which would make 4 pounds of salt per day between them (through 6/6/16 at midnight, you can order the next smallest model and get upgraded for $1). What do you think? Would that be enough? He said it would not be able to integrate into the Pentair Easy Touch controller, but that it wouldn't matter. I don't really understand the controllers yet except that as we travel a lot, I assume I need to be as automated as possible.

    After Cowboy Casey's comment on the challenge of cleaning the cartridge filters, I read the TFP descriptions and some threads and agree that a sand filter would be easier. We do expect to be doing a lot of night swimming, but I am hoping that with a cover, the dust in the pool won't be too noticeable in the lights? Anyone have an experience to the contrary? Does everyone agree that the Pentair TR140C-3 Triton C-3 36in. Sand Commercial Pool Filter with 3in. Flange would be best?

    Now to the heater issue - we are on a mountain in southeastern Tennessee - 7 degrees cooler than in the valley. Would it be practical to just get one heater and then to add a heater if we found it was taking too long?
    25 x 60 IG, 10' sunshelf, 24' sh, 26' dp; 57,600 gallons; 8' Jump Board; Hayward Equipment: 2 Sand Filters 36" Tank S360T2; 2 TriStar 5.0 HP FR Pumps SP3250EE; 2 Natural Gas Heaters H400FDN; OmniLogic; Sense & Dispense HL-CHEM; 2 SWG; pH Dispense Acid Feed System AQL-CHEM4-ACID; 2 systems work independently; Hydrazzo Plaster; TigerShark 2 Plus Commercial Robotic; 1 Spa and 3 ColorLogic lights; CoverStar automatic cover.

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    Re: Lost PB - Need Advice on Equipment

    My advice is don't listen to salesmen

    Our general advice around here when it comes to variable speed pumps, SWG's and automation systems is to stick with one brand so they all talk to each other without the need for interface boxes which can be problematic or limit function. The Pentair Intellichlor is a popular model here, but does have some significant limitations on programmability if it is used stand alone and not with an EasyTouch automation system which is a moot point for your setup since you plan on having an EasyTouch.

    Ike

    p.s. I just looked at that comparison chart, and all I can say is that it is a sales tool to encourage people to buy certain brands based upon "selling point" features that are not necessarily a good thing in the real world, for example the clear cell, what good is this other than slightly increasing your chance of a hydrogen gas explosion if you get a gas buildup in the cell (most likely due to incorrect installation) as exposure to UV light can cause Hydrogen gas to react with Oxygen and explode. (sure the clear plastic blocks 99%+ of the UV, but non transparent ones block 100%)
    Indoor 20x40 35,000 gallon vinyl pool with 1.5 HP 2 speed Jandy FloPro pump, Hayward EC75 Perflex DE filter, 11 4x12 Techno-Solis solar panels w/ Aquasolar controller, Aquabot Turbo T Robot Cleaner. Also LMI metering chlorine dispenser pump and HotSpring Jetsetter
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    Re: Lost PB - Need Advice on Equipment

    So, because of the auto cover your FC use will be minimal also, you are basically doing an indoor pool, so look at post's with people dealing with indoor pools, the setup is a little different..

    DSP leans toward the curcupool I think so the score I would say is about a 90/95 and the pentair is probably closer to 80, and they always have some kind of promotion going on, that is why I like DSP and curcupool, and the service after you buy is awesome for both

    with the 2 statements above I think the 1 RJ60 plus would be enough chlorine to maintain your pool, and if it was not you could alway add another SJ40 later or if just a month or so during the summer maybe just supplement with bleach

    The heater, if you make the pad big enough you can always add one later if it is not big enough, I just thought of something that maybe you can think of if your power cost is low or you have a south facing roof.

    solar can be very effective if south facing and once installed is free and can easily heat your pool with 75 to 100% coverage

    A heat pump is meant to keep a certain temp and will keep it there, it may take a little longer but once there runs less to keep the set temp...

    On the filter, if you add a little DE to your sand it will help catch smaller stuff and almost all filters you will still see stuff in the water at night..

    I hope this helps
    Pool: Intex 16x32 15000 gal, 2 speed 340042, Pentair CC320 Filter, CircuPool SJ45 Salt System, Intermatic PE653RC; Hot Tub: 650 Gal SWG Megachlor
    links: pool school * Recommended-Levels * SLAM * CYA chart * Test kits * How To Post Pictures * Poolmath * OCLT ** Support your website if we helped you :) **

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    Re: Lost PB - Need Advice on Equipment

    I looked up DE and FC under your Handy Reference section and the suggestion of adding the DE makes me feel better about using the sand filter. Thanks! How much DE should be added?

    I am taking Isaac's comment seriously about not listening to salesmen, and have compared the CircuPool RJ-60 Plus and the IntelliChlor IC60 and have a few questions.
    1. What is the advantage of being able to integrate the IC60 into the Easy Touch?
    2. Would 2 pounds/day produced by the Pentair IntelliChlor be enough salt? Yes, we will have a cover, but we have a lot of family and it will be uncovered and being used a lot of the time in the summer particularly.
    3. If not enough, the trade-off seems to be giving up the integration into the Easy Touch for the advantage of an extra pound a day of salt from the RJ-60.
    Thoughts?

    We are not south facing, but thanks for the idea on the solar panels, CowboyCasey.

    Duraleigh, I want to respect your request not to start another thread on the issue of lights and plaster, but I wouldn't think people would be drawn to my questions on those topics with the current Thread title, so isn't that counterproductive? Or can I add to the Thread title?
    25 x 60 IG, 10' sunshelf, 24' sh, 26' dp; 57,600 gallons; 8' Jump Board; Hayward Equipment: 2 Sand Filters 36" Tank S360T2; 2 TriStar 5.0 HP FR Pumps SP3250EE; 2 Natural Gas Heaters H400FDN; OmniLogic; Sense & Dispense HL-CHEM; 2 SWG; pH Dispense Acid Feed System AQL-CHEM4-ACID; 2 systems work independently; Hydrazzo Plaster; TigerShark 2 Plus Commercial Robotic; 1 Spa and 3 ColorLogic lights; CoverStar automatic cover.

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    Mod Squad zea3's Avatar
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    Re: Lost PB - Need Advice on Equipment

    We have several people who follow pool build threads and can advise you on any questions you may have. Honestly we don't look at the topics as much as we look at what has most recently been posted. If you keep all your build related questions in one thread it is much easier for those who are answering questions to advise you if they don't have to search for another thread for pertinent information.
    TFP Moderator
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    Re: Lost PB - Need Advice on Equipment

    Understand - will do - thanks.
    25 x 60 IG, 10' sunshelf, 24' sh, 26' dp; 57,600 gallons; 8' Jump Board; Hayward Equipment: 2 Sand Filters 36" Tank S360T2; 2 TriStar 5.0 HP FR Pumps SP3250EE; 2 Natural Gas Heaters H400FDN; OmniLogic; Sense & Dispense HL-CHEM; 2 SWG; pH Dispense Acid Feed System AQL-CHEM4-ACID; 2 systems work independently; Hydrazzo Plaster; TigerShark 2 Plus Commercial Robotic; 1 Spa and 3 ColorLogic lights; CoverStar automatic cover.

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    Re: Lost PB - Need Advice on Equipment

    The SWG is creating chlorine from salt, so the 2 or 3 pounds per day is chlorine..

    You add DE slowly until your PSI raises 1

    I went through the same exact thought process with pentair automation and the SWG and it is a rabbit hole that I got out of
    Pool: Intex 16x32 15000 gal, 2 speed 340042, Pentair CC320 Filter, CircuPool SJ45 Salt System, Intermatic PE653RC; Hot Tub: 650 Gal SWG Megachlor
    links: pool school * Recommended-Levels * SLAM * CYA chart * Test kits * How To Post Pictures * Poolmath * OCLT ** Support your website if we helped you :) **

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    Re: Lost PB - Need Advice on Equipment

    I'm a pool newbie but experienced in filtering water. Totally agree on sand for convenience. DE is added after each backwash through the skimmer so it's easy to do. On a big filter like that it's going to be more than the 1-2 cups of DE described in: Pool School - Add DE to a Sand Filter and adding DE is a piece of cake compared to cleaning filter cartridges.

    Pulling up a chair on this one just to watch. Great project!!
    12k IG salt; glass beads in plaster; K-2006C, K-1766, CCL, and Aussie 4in1 (HTH); Pentair Eco800 1.2HP VS; Zodiac SWC 1.3 lb/day (25 g/hr); 25" filter recycled glass; OKU solar panels; 1/2 HP solar pump; Rebel (Warrior) pool cleaner; FlowViz; prior pool AG 10k | Read Before Posting to get the best possible advice | ... and this helped me a lot!: TFPC for Beginners

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    Re: Lost PB - Need Advice on Equipment

    I appreciate the info!

    The DSP sale goes off at midnight and I can't decide whether to give up the automation of the Pentair SWG in order to get the CircuPool SWG. Here are my questions from above, repeated:

    1. What is the advantage of being able to integrate the IC60 into the Easy Touch?
    2. Would 2 pounds/day produced by the Pentair IntelliChlor be enough chlorine? Yes, we will have a cover, but we have a lot of family and it will be uncovered and being used a lot of the time in the summer particularly.
    3. If not enough, the trade-off seems to be giving up the integration into the Easy Touch for the advantage of an extra pound a day of salt from the RJ-60.
    Thoughts?

    Cowboy Casey seemed happy to give that up - but others say to keep equipment within the same manufacturer. Can anyone provide more input here? I really don't understand what I would be giving up if the Easy Touch can't reflect the SWG.
    25 x 60 IG, 10' sunshelf, 24' sh, 26' dp; 57,600 gallons; 8' Jump Board; Hayward Equipment: 2 Sand Filters 36" Tank S360T2; 2 TriStar 5.0 HP FR Pumps SP3250EE; 2 Natural Gas Heaters H400FDN; OmniLogic; Sense & Dispense HL-CHEM; 2 SWG; pH Dispense Acid Feed System AQL-CHEM4-ACID; 2 systems work independently; Hydrazzo Plaster; TigerShark 2 Plus Commercial Robotic; 1 Spa and 3 ColorLogic lights; CoverStar automatic cover.

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    Lost PB - Need Advice on Equipment

    With the non-Pentair SWG, you would not be able to control the SWG via the automation (so not via a remote or via a cell phone if you have or get that functionality). I really like being able to do this versus going to the cell itself. A little bump here a little drop there. Actually, the more I think about it, during times when I'm using my autocover, the SWG setting does need changed fairly often. Because the amount of sunlight it receives varies. So it's not just a dial it in for a part of the season kind of thing.
    Although you will be using the pool often, think about what time of day the swimming usually starts? Is it often 10, 11 or 12? But those times , several hours of sun exposure (and related use of FC use) are gone. As are those hours of debris and pollen.
    I'd lean towards the IC-60. If during peak times it can't quite keep up, you can always compensate with a little bleach as needed.
    SWG's don't last forever either. If you make the wrong choice, you aren't stuck with it forever.
    18'x38' Rectangle (3'-8 1/2' deep w/ diving board) - 27K gal. w/ gray plaster
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