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Thread: PH and TA "issue" (???)

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    PH and TA "issue" (???)

    is adding acid part of normal routine?

    I know my TA is still high and I need to try some MA instead of dry acid (been through 16 pounds of that and the pH just goes back up to 7.8+.

    dropped to 7.2 (didn't want to go lower as we still swim) and TA dropped from 240 to 200 with dropping pH and aerating using the return.
    Back to 7.5+ each day and I keep adding dry acid. At this point, I am going to use Pool Math and add a gallon of MA...

    is that routine or only time will tell?
    Pool installed 8/2015. 30' round Radiant pool. 21,000 gallons. 200# sand. Hayward Vari flow XL valve. 1.5hp Hayward Power-Flo Matrix running 10 hours/day in two periods. TF100 with speed stir. Sun all day, south side of house
    Order test kit TF-100 w/ Speed Stir and then Poolmath Calculator --- RECOMMENDED LEVELS --- POOL SCHOOL --- Algae? --- Chlorine/CYA CHART.

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    Re: PH and TA "issue" (???)

    MA is a better choice because it does not leave behind sulfates as dry acid does.

    What is the pH and TA of your fill water?
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Mod Squad JohnT's Avatar
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    Re: PH and TA "issue" (???)

    It is probably a routine that will diminish with time. Rainwater and adding acid to keep the pH down will eventually lower the TA to where the pH becomes more stable.

    My TA was around 280ppm when I filled my pool 10 years ago, and I went through a gallon of MA a week. It has gotten easier every year, and this year it was 7.5 when I opened and is still there.
    TFP Moderator
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    Hayward S244T Sand Filter with 1HP Whisperflo Pump. Liquidator C-201 and Solar Heat

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    Re: PH and TA "issue" (???)

    Quote Originally Posted by duraleigh View Post
    MA is a better choice because it does not leave behind sulfates as dry acid does.

    What is the pH and TA of your fill water?
    7.6
    160

    only added about 4" (the rest has been rain)
    Pool installed 8/2015. 30' round Radiant pool. 21,000 gallons. 200# sand. Hayward Vari flow XL valve. 1.5hp Hayward Power-Flo Matrix running 10 hours/day in two periods. TF100 with speed stir. Sun all day, south side of house
    Order test kit TF-100 w/ Speed Stir and then Poolmath Calculator --- RECOMMENDED LEVELS --- POOL SCHOOL --- Algae? --- Chlorine/CYA CHART.

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    Re: PH and TA "issue" (???)

    Trying to move pH using dry acids with TA that high is a fool's errand.
    Get some MA - cheaper & stronger.
    30k in ground vinyl lined pool surrounded by decking in the woods.
    Hayward sand filter circa mid 80's
    If there is a way to do things less expensively and yield a superior product I am all ears

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    Re: PH and TA "issue" (???)

    Doc,

    JohnT has had that high TA condition for all of the 10+ years he has been on the forum. His advice is absolute rock solid.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Re: PH and TA "issue" (???)

    Off to big lowes i go!
    Thanks JohnT and Dave.
    Pool installed 8/2015. 30' round Radiant pool. 21,000 gallons. 200# sand. Hayward Vari flow XL valve. 1.5hp Hayward Power-Flo Matrix running 10 hours/day in two periods. TF100 with speed stir. Sun all day, south side of house
    Order test kit TF-100 w/ Speed Stir and then Poolmath Calculator --- RECOMMENDED LEVELS --- POOL SCHOOL --- Algae? --- Chlorine/CYA CHART.

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    Re: PH and TA "issue" (???)

    Quote Originally Posted by doc8404 View Post
    Off to big lowes i go!
    Thanks JohnT and Dave.
    I too usually buy my Muratic Acid from lowes via a 2-pak of gallon [31.45%] containers at 13.45...H-Depot had a 2-Pak at same strength for $10.98 HWY 6 S near Westheimer
    InGround 15K gal, 18'x30' 3.5' to 5.5' depth w/ 9'x9' spillover Spa, Pebblesheen w/ Travertine, Hayward 3 HP VSP, Hayward C4030 Cartridge, Hayward 1.5 HP for 2 Scupper columns, ProLogic, PL-PS-8 Panel, Hayward 400K BTU Heater, 3 ColorLogic LED, Spa Blower, TF-100 w S-Stick, QC Tiger Shark, Autofill

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    Re: PH and TA "issue" (???)

    Wow. Just tested fill water with kit

    480 TA
    <7.5 ph

    glad we have a distilled for drinking.
    Pool installed 8/2015. 30' round Radiant pool. 21,000 gallons. 200# sand. Hayward Vari flow XL valve. 1.5hp Hayward Power-Flo Matrix running 10 hours/day in two periods. TF100 with speed stir. Sun all day, south side of house
    Order test kit TF-100 w/ Speed Stir and then Poolmath Calculator --- RECOMMENDED LEVELS --- POOL SCHOOL --- Algae? --- Chlorine/CYA CHART.

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    Re: PH and TA "issue" (???)

    After heavy rain, TA dropped from 200 to 160

    new levels
    FC 5.5
    cc trace (one drop)
    ph 8.0 or so
    CYA 50
    TA 160

    adding 13oz 10% bleach, 110 of 20• MA and aerating.
    Pool installed 8/2015. 30' round Radiant pool. 21,000 gallons. 200# sand. Hayward Vari flow XL valve. 1.5hp Hayward Power-Flo Matrix running 10 hours/day in two periods. TF100 with speed stir. Sun all day, south side of house
    Order test kit TF-100 w/ Speed Stir and then Poolmath Calculator --- RECOMMENDED LEVELS --- POOL SCHOOL --- Algae? --- Chlorine/CYA CHART.

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    Re: PH and TA "issue" (???)

    Quote Originally Posted by tstex View Post
    I too usually buy my Muratic Acid from lowes via a 2-pak of gallon [31.45%] containers at 13.45...H-Depot had a 2-Pak at same strength for $10.98 HWY 6 S near Westheimer

    Neither Hd or lowes had anything other than in pain section for $8/gal.
    Pool installed 8/2015. 30' round Radiant pool. 21,000 gallons. 200# sand. Hayward Vari flow XL valve. 1.5hp Hayward Power-Flo Matrix running 10 hours/day in two periods. TF100 with speed stir. Sun all day, south side of house
    Order test kit TF-100 w/ Speed Stir and then Poolmath Calculator --- RECOMMENDED LEVELS --- POOL SCHOOL --- Algae? --- Chlorine/CYA CHART.

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    Mod Squad JohnT's Avatar
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    Re: PH and TA "issue" (???)

    Quote Originally Posted by doc8404 View Post
    Neither Hd or lowes had anything other than in pain section for $8/gal.
    I get mine at a farm store for less than $4 a gallon. A quick search shows Runnings has it for $6.59. Not as good as what I get, but better than $8.
    TFP Moderator
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    Re: PH and TA "issue" (???)

    Good call
    need to head in the other direction to check them and Ace out.

    added the Ma two hours ago. Dropped pH to 7.2 but TA stayed the same
    Pool installed 8/2015. 30' round Radiant pool. 21,000 gallons. 200# sand. Hayward Vari flow XL valve. 1.5hp Hayward Power-Flo Matrix running 10 hours/day in two periods. TF100 with speed stir. Sun all day, south side of house
    Order test kit TF-100 w/ Speed Stir and then Poolmath Calculator --- RECOMMENDED LEVELS --- POOL SCHOOL --- Algae? --- Chlorine/CYA CHART.

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    Re: PH and TA "issue" (???)

    TA will gradually drop as you continue to add MA acid and it's removed via aeration and rain. But will fill water and a TA of 480, that means rain-barrel time. I would test your fill water again, maybe even 2 times. Make sure you run the fill water for 1-2 min's to flush you hoses and pipelines to the main pipeline/etc.

    The muratic acid in either HD or Lowes in the Paint/flooring section is more expensive than the MA in the pool area. They usually stock this M-Acid right as you walk out into the "outdoors" area...Ask them in this section of the store...
    InGround 15K gal, 18'x30' 3.5' to 5.5' depth w/ 9'x9' spillover Spa, Pebblesheen w/ Travertine, Hayward 3 HP VSP, Hayward C4030 Cartridge, Hayward 1.5 HP for 2 Scupper columns, ProLogic, PL-PS-8 Panel, Hayward 400K BTU Heater, 3 ColorLogic LED, Spa Blower, TF-100 w S-Stick, QC Tiger Shark, Autofill

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    Re: PH and TA "issue" (???)

    Quote Originally Posted by tstex View Post
    TA will gradually drop as you continue to add MA acid and it's removed via aeration and rain. But will fill water and a TA of 480, that means rain-barrel time. I would test your fill water again, maybe even 2 times. Make sure you run the fill water for 1-2 min's to flush you hoses and pipelines to the main pipeline/etc.

    The muratic acid in either HD or Lowes in the Paint/flooring section is more expensive than the MA in the pool area. They usually stock this M-Acid right as you walk out into the "outdoors" area...Ask them in this section of the store...
    My HD only had the low odor stuff, at $8/gallon. I'm going to have to check rural king or another farm store I guess.

    As for the rain barrel, are you saying some people collect rain water just to fill the pool? I'm a little tempted, my tap water is really high in TA also.

    17,500 gallon IG Vinyl
    Pentair Tagelus TA60D Sand filter
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    Taylor K-2006-A, Stenner 45MPHP10 auto chlorine feed

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    Re: PH and TA "issue" (???)

    Rainwater into a pool can be a VERY good thing. I diverted my gutters to get the extra fill water I needed.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Re: PH and TA "issue" (???)

    "Rainwater into a pool can be a VERY good thing. I diverted my gutters to get the extra fill water I needed." per Dave S.

    It's practically or virtually impossible that rain water would cause you any issues in any applications from a chemical standpoint. If it comes in via your roof or your doors via a 16 inch rain, then you have a problem. In Houston, we have not had to fill our pool in over a month+ due to all the rain...
    InGround 15K gal, 18'x30' 3.5' to 5.5' depth w/ 9'x9' spillover Spa, Pebblesheen w/ Travertine, Hayward 3 HP VSP, Hayward C4030 Cartridge, Hayward 1.5 HP for 2 Scupper columns, ProLogic, PL-PS-8 Panel, Hayward 400K BTU Heater, 3 ColorLogic LED, Spa Blower, TF-100 w S-Stick, QC Tiger Shark, Autofill

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    Re: PH and TA "issue" (???)

    I searched my local Lowes and Home Depot. Both had the same stuff. Neither had any MA in the "pool" section outside. They both had "pH down" powder.

    Both had MA in the paint section. Both offered 31% and 14% (skipping decimals). Both were ~$8/gallon for any flavor.

    I'm on my 2nd case of the 31% stuff as my pool seems to like ~1 gallon per week. The fill water that came in from a truck had a TA 400+. I'm now down to ~250.

    ac
    20K gal, IG Fiberglass "Lifetime Pittsburgh", 1 1/2 HP TriStar pump, 525 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPlus T-15 SWG, Dolphin Oasis z5 Robot

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    Re: PH and TA "issue" (???)

    Quote Originally Posted by tstex View Post
    TA will gradually drop as you continue to add MA acid and it's removed via aeration and rain. But will fill water and a TA of 480, that means rain-barrel time. I would test your fill water again, maybe even 2 times. Make sure you run the fill water for 1-2 min's to flush you hoses and pipelines to the main pipeline/etc.

    The muratic acid in either HD or Lowes in the Paint/flooring section is more expensive than the MA in the pool area. They usually stock this M-Acid right as you walk out into the "outdoors" area...Ask them in this section of the store...
    they even checked the computer, both are out and not carrying the rest of the year...probably too many dummies (like me for now) buying in paint section.
    Off to Ace and Runnings.

    TA is now 130 and pH at 7.0
    Pool installed 8/2015. 30' round Radiant pool. 21,000 gallons. 200# sand. Hayward Vari flow XL valve. 1.5hp Hayward Power-Flo Matrix running 10 hours/day in two periods. TF100 with speed stir. Sun all day, south side of house
    Order test kit TF-100 w/ Speed Stir and then Poolmath Calculator --- RECOMMENDED LEVELS --- POOL SCHOOL --- Algae? --- Chlorine/CYA CHART.

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    Re: PH and TA "issue" (???)

    Doc & Ave,

    Looking at your locations, I am betting this is a volume thing, and there are a lot more pools in Houston than in prob many of the NJ cities [just a guess]. Therefore, they go thru a lot of MA here, bc even the SWG pools need acid...

    If you want, here is the HD # 281 870-9369. see If they can give you a SKU# so you can cross-reference it, maybe you can get lucky...I just went outside and the box says "Sunbelt Chemical Comp"...the 1 gal jugs is branded "Smart" ...good luck
    InGround 15K gal, 18'x30' 3.5' to 5.5' depth w/ 9'x9' spillover Spa, Pebblesheen w/ Travertine, Hayward 3 HP VSP, Hayward C4030 Cartridge, Hayward 1.5 HP for 2 Scupper columns, ProLogic, PL-PS-8 Panel, Hayward 400K BTU Heater, 3 ColorLogic LED, Spa Blower, TF-100 w S-Stick, QC Tiger Shark, Autofill

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