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Thread: neighbors just opened pool and pool guy wants to cheat them!

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    cubbybeave08's Avatar
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    neighbors just opened pool and pool guy wants to cheat them!

    Hey everybody...first time here in while. My neighbors have what I estimate to be a 30X12 fiberglass inground pool. I don't have the particulars on pump filter and those things because well it's not my pool. However, they had pool guy come and take the cover off, and clean and "open" the pool yesterday. They put "some chlorine in and did some other stuff. They took a water sample because the guy found at the deep end of the pool about a three foot by twelve foot black spot. Ran the width of the pool and about three feet out from the side of the pool. I am guessing that this is black algae. Pool guy took a sample back to his LaBORATORY...and was supposed to call them today with results. In the mean time I used my trusty kit and did a quick test:

    Results:
    FC 1 ppm
    cc 0 ppm
    ph 7.2
    calcium hardness was 440 a bit on the high end
    and Alkalinity was 70 too low.

    Questions...is the black spot on the end of the pool black alage? it would not scrub clean for me...so I am guessing that the pool was not brought to a high enough FC level last fall and we a fairly mild fall and a mild then cold then hot then cold spring. So what would they use to clean the stain which is very dark, charcoal gray kind of color. The water is somewhat cloudy...and do they need to mess with the calcium level...and I know alk has to come up and I will verify on the pool calc how much to use. Thanks in advance for any advice. They said that they had spent close to $500 bucks last summer and I want to help them enjoy their pool and not get taken to the cleaners.
    Beave
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    Re: neighbors just opened pool and pool guy wants to cheat them!

    You can try putting trichlor puck on the stain for a few minutes and see if it lightens it, if so it is organic, if not try some crushed vitamin C tablets in a sock and see if they lift it, if so it is a metals stain. I would tend to think this one is organic though.
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    Re: neighbors just opened pool and pool guy wants to cheat them!

    Little chance it is black algae. follow Isaac's good advice.
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    Re: neighbors just opened pool and pool guy wants to cheat them!

    Do the tests Isaac suggests.

    You didn't list a CYA test which will indicate where FC needs to,go to.

    Ignore TA for now. 70 is an acceptable number and there is no need fooling with it until you see how the pH moves.
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    Re: neighbors just opened pool and pool guy wants to cheat them!

    Gotcha...I will have them do the trichlor...my guess is organic too...as there really wouldn't be anything metal that would cause the stain. It had a winter cover on it...Thanks for the great advice guys...IF the trichlor does the trick then I have to have the get the chlorine up to shock levels and maintain that until the stain is able to be brushed clear correct? And the trichlor puck won't hurt the coloring of the fiberglass right?

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    Quote Originally Posted by tim5055 View Post
    Do the tests Isaac suggests.

    You didn't list a CYA test which will indicate where FC needs to,go to.

    Ignore TA for now. 70 is an acceptable number and there is no need fooling with it until you see how the pH moves.
    Going to test the CYA after they get the results back from pool guy...I want to see if they even test it. They have been using stabilized pucks for two years...my guess is that it is higher than it should be.
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    Re: neighbors just opened pool and pool guy wants to cheat them!

    I'm not getting the part where the pool guy "wants to cheat them." What has he done other than open the pool and take a water sample?
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    cubbybeave08's Avatar
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    Re: neighbors just opened pool and pool guy wants to cheat them!

    Well you have to know pool stores around here...they are notorious for giving bad results...not testing for CYA and then telling you need to purchase all kinds of algaecide and chemicals you do not need. Guy came out and dumped 8 lbs of chlorine into their pool on Saturday and then told the that the dark spot on the bottom of the pool was mustard algae. which it could not be because it is black. So then they ask about their pool water test, and the guy says we lost it. Really...I am going to set them up here so they can get their own test kit. and start taking care of their pool themselves, the easy way. I know a couple of these companies from other friends who are pool owners, and this is part of the scam they pull. It's all about spending more and more. This particular company does not have a great reputation but they charge people hundreds of dollars a summer more than they should and customers spend more time not using their pools.
    Beave
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    Re: neighbors just opened pool and pool guy wants to cheat them!

    Quote Originally Posted by Geebot View Post
    I'm not getting the part where the pool guy "wants to cheat them." What has he done other than open the pool and take a water sample?
    The guy put in 8 lbs of trichlor. according to the pool calc...that raised the FC to 65ppm. What good that 65 ppm do?
    Beave
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    Re: neighbors just opened pool and pool guy wants to cheat them!

    Quote Originally Posted by cubbybeave08 View Post
    The guy put in 8 lbs of trichlor. according to the pool calc...that raised the FC to 65ppm. What good that 65 ppm do?
    It increased the Total Dissolved Solids! That way when the customer's wallet is empty, they can decide it's high TDS causing the problems and say he has to drain. Oh... and buy this startup kit for $200....
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    Re: neighbors just opened pool and pool guy wants to cheat them!

    Assuming that the fiberglass is in good shape, black algae is very unlikely in a fiberglass pool since the surface is usually too smooth to allow the roots to embed themselves. The more uneven and somewhat porous nature of plaster-based pool surfaces are a much more likely target of black algae. Still worth doing the test that Isaac recommended.
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    Re: neighbors just opened pool and pool guy wants to cheat them!

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard320 View Post
    It increased the Total Dissolved Solids! That way when the customer's wallet is empty, they can decide it's high TDS causing the problems and say he has to drain. Oh... and buy this startup kit for $200....
    Richard...what can I do to decrease the TDS...or even test for that. or does just letting the chlorine burn off reduce that. Not something I deal with
    Beave
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    Re: neighbors just opened pool and pool guy wants to cheat them!

    Richard was pointing out the false information pool stores use to cost owners money. TDS is a meaningless number by itself. It used to be the only way to measure CYA, albeit indirectly. Now that we can directly measure CYA and understand it's relationship to chlorine using TFP methods, any attempt to give you advice based on a TDS number is akin to selling snake oil. Worry about CYA level and distrust anyone who thinks TDS tells you anything truly meaningful about your pool.
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    Re: neighbors just opened pool and pool guy wants to cheat them!

    Quote Originally Posted by JVTrain View Post
    Richard was pointing out the false information pool stores use to cost owners money. TDS is a meaningless number by itself. It used to be the only way to measure CYA, albeit indirectly. Now that we can directly measure CYA and understand it's relationship to chlorine using TFP methods, any attempt to give you advice based on a TDS number is akin to selling snake oil. Worry about CYA level and distrust anyone who thinks TDS tells you anything truly meaningful about your pool.
    Thanks Train...I kinda thought that...but wasn't sure...going to go over tomorrow and see what the CYA is. My guess is that it will be 60 or better because they have been using trichlor for 2 or three years. So I will know what to do from there. Do I have any problem going from whatever they put in on Saturday to going to just chlorine say Wednesday or Thursday?
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    Re: neighbors just opened pool and pool guy wants to cheat them!

    Their only option at this point if they have elevated CYA is to go strictly with bleach. Won't know until CYA and FC have been tested. Should also check the pH, if the FC happens to be low enough to test it (10 ppm FC or less).
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    Re: neighbors just opened pool and pool guy wants to cheat them!

    Quote Originally Posted by JVTrain View Post
    Their only option at this point if they have elevated CYA is to go strictly with bleach. Won't know until CYA and FC have been tested. Should also check the pH, if the FC happens to be low enough to test it (10 ppm FC or less).
    pH was 7.2 when I tested on Thursday...I'll post results tomorrow after work. I know I can get the water taken care off, I am concerned about the stain at the deep end. But I'll see what a trichlor puck does.
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    Re: neighbors just opened pool and pool guy wants to cheat them!

    CYA 120ppm. This is what i was afraid of. CH was still 440 and FC was .5. Pool guy said that was perfect. Lol at 120 CYA far from perfect.

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    Re: neighbors just opened pool and pool guy wants to cheat them!

    A 50% drain (at least) will kill two birds. Lower CYA and CH, provided the fill water is fairly low in CH. Testing their fill water for CH wouldn't hurt, but I suspect it got high from using cal-hypo shock.
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    Re: neighbors just opened pool and pool guy wants to cheat them!

    My SIL's pool store had her up her alkalinity then sold her low and slow to drop the PH. DOH! It can be hard, though, to get people to trust something as simple as bleach. (I have to call it liquid chlorine in front of my SIL, lol. Can't get her to convert, she thought the bags of shock from Walmart were great.) I'm curious what the puck will do to the stain. Too bad it's in the deep end, or you could feel it to see it it was rough or slimy.
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    Re: neighbors just opened pool and pool guy wants to cheat them!

    Quote Originally Posted by JVTrain View Post
    A 50% drain (at least) will kill two birds. Lower CYA and CH, provided the fill water is fairly low in CH. Testing their fill water for CH wouldn't hurt, but I suspect it got high from using cal-hypo shock.
    Yep Train...going to drain down by 1/3 to 1/2 and then refill. See where it goes from there. I want the CYA to be more manageable, and then she is under strict directions to stop using the Trichlor and the Cal Hypo. They have been using this stuff for three or four years. in the mean time she's getting three cases of 12.5 % liquid chlorine from our pool store. pH was 7.5 and TA was 90...which I think is good, but that differed greatly from the pool store test results which showed TA was 120 and pH was 7.2. I can only guess that they did it with test trips, or indoors with florescent lighting and the color comparison was off on the pH. Still I am having a nice time showing my neighbors just how easy it can be to take care of a pool...and isn't that why we're all here...to have a trouble free pool!!!!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by PAGirl View Post
    My SIL's pool store had her up her alkalinity then sold her low and slow to drop the PH. DOH! It can be hard, though, to get people to trust something as simple as bleach. (I have to call it liquid chlorine in front of my SIL, lol. Can't get her to convert, she thought the bags of shock from Walmart were great.) I'm curious what the puck will do to the stain. Too bad it's in the deep end, or you could feel it to see it it was rough or slimy.
    actually I forgot to add that part. My wife had the number wrong it wasn't 8 lbs it was 2.5 lbs of cal hypo...and 8 lbs of TA increaser and then 3lbs of ph down after adding the TA increaser. I told her that this is something she'd learn that she could increase the TA with backing soda and not increase ph too much and then not have to use pH down.

    Anyway the dark spot is almost completely gone, and so I guess it is or was organic in nature...she vacuumed the bottom today and most of that stain came up...only a slight discoloration...I may work on that after the pool gets drained down. but thanks for the reminder?
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    Re: neighbors just opened pool and pool guy wants to cheat them!

    Question about fiberglass pools...after draining down 1/2 the pool. I noticed that there is a round chip about the size of a bottle cap. It looks like it is a chip in the surface coat, but not clear through. Should this get fixed now or can it wait til fall to repair?

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