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Thread: Help with SWG selection

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    Help with SWG selection

    I've just completed a pool pad renovation and am thinking that I might bight the bullet and add a SWG vs. wait until next summer. I now have a Pentaire VS pump and a Pentaire cart. filter. The models I have looked at online appear to call for installations with no bypass. I hate to reduce flow by running all the water from my 2 inch line through the SWG all the time, is this a valid concern? I'd like to know which models restrict flow the least, also if it is acceptable to run them off a bypass so that a portion of the water goes through the SWG and a portion go through 2 in PVC? My pool is 29k gallons, in-ground, vinyl. Recommendations appreciated.

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    Divin Dave's Avatar
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    Re: Help with SWG selection

    Hi PNWDad,
    We wouldnt recommend a bypass. The SWG cell needs a x amount of gpm flowing through it to generate chlorine. There isnt anything to be concerned about with all your water flowing through there. And if you did, that means you'll just have to run your VSP at higher rpm in order to produce the amount of flow the swg needs. So, it sort of defeats the purpose of it.

    Hayward,
    Pentair,
    Jandy,
    others....

    all are good brands and all of them have the plus and minus.
    One thing to think about, is if you ever decide to automate your pool, having equipment all of the same brand will make that much easier.

    As for the size of one to get, we always recommend getting a SWG rated for minimum 1.5 and up to 3x the size of your pool.
    The larger the SWG, the less it has to work to produce enough chlorine to keep your pool in good shape. And that means you save money in the long run because you dont have to replace the cell as often. Its not uncommon for a cell 2x larger than your pool to last 7 years or more .
    Divin Dave,
    IG Vinyl, 15' x 30', 3 1/2' - 6' deep, Oval, ~15K gal, Intelliclor IC40, Intelliflo VS pump, Clean and Clear 420 Filter, auto-fill-disabled, Retrofit LED Color Light, Dolphin Nautilus Robot, TF100 Test Kit, Taylor K1766 Salt Test Kit, Tftestkit Pressure Gauge.
    www.tftestkits.net Experience- it's what's learned just after you needed it most !!

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    Re: Help with SWG selection

    Hi Dave,
    Thank you for the reply. That's a good point about automation down the road. I had locked onto a thread regarding Circupool cells and this website, Full Market Comparison of Salt Water Chlorine Generators for Swimming Pools , the site rated pentair SWG's poorly by feature/value compared to the SJ-45 cell. I don't know if the features listed in the chart are that meaningful?
    So, the Pentaire IC-60 would be in the zone for my size and allow a future automation?

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    needsajet's Avatar
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    Re: Help with SWG selection

    Based on 2 lbs per day output, and 29,000 gallon pool, the IC60 set to 100% would deliver 2.5 PPM FC per day in 7.2 hours run time. If it were mine, I'd probably run it 12 hours at 60% for 2.5 PPM daily demand, leaving room to crank it up for hot days and bather load.
    12k IG salt; glass beads in plaster; K-2006C, K-1766, CCL, and Aussie 4in1 (HTH); Pentair Eco800 1.2HP VS; Zodiac SWC 1.3 lb/day (25 g/hr); 25" filter recycled glass; OKU solar panels; 1/2 HP solar pump; Rebel (Warrior) pool cleaner; FlowViz; prior pool AG 10k | Read Before Posting to get the best possible advice | ... and this helped me a lot!: TFPC for Beginners

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    Re: Help with SWG selection

    Gotta confess, the analysis is over-my-head, would you recommend a different SWG (independent of my pump brand)?
    Quote Originally Posted by needsajet View Post
    Based on 2 lbs per day output, and 29,000 gallon pool, the IC60 set to 100% would deliver 2.5 PPM FC per day in 7.2 hours run time. If it were mine, I'd probably run it 12 hours at 60% for 2.5 PPM daily demand, leaving room to crank it up for hot days and bather load.
    18x36 in-ground, ~29k gallons, Pentair 3HP VS, Pentair CC+ 420, IC-40, EasyTouch Panel, In-ground cover, 100% DIY-reworked pad (thanks to help from this forum), TFP Test Kit, Near-antique heat pump...

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    needsajet's Avatar
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    Re: Help with SWG selection

    Sorry, sometimes the numbers help. No, I'm in Australia and we have different brands and configurations, plus I haven't worked with enough pools. What I hear is that none of them are dead solid perfect, but those with the IC60 like them.

    On average through the swim season, and depending how sunny your pool is, you need 2-3 parts per million (PPM) free chlorine (FC) to replace what gets used up by the sun and to kill bacteria and to oxidize organics, in order to keep your FC up at your target level, and above minimum always. On a super hot day with a kids birthday party, you might need to put 4 PPM FC in the pool to make up for what is used up. The IC60 can do that in your size pool.

    Some people use a smaller SWG and know they will occasionally top up with liquid chlorine. But having a bigger SWG gives you options you will be really glad you have later on.

    I'm useless on the automation stuff. My pool is very simple with the SWG controller also controlling the pump, but in America it's done a bit different and equally effectively. Sorry for any confusion and welcome to TFP!
    12k IG salt; glass beads in plaster; K-2006C, K-1766, CCL, and Aussie 4in1 (HTH); Pentair Eco800 1.2HP VS; Zodiac SWC 1.3 lb/day (25 g/hr); 25" filter recycled glass; OKU solar panels; 1/2 HP solar pump; Rebel (Warrior) pool cleaner; FlowViz; prior pool AG 10k | Read Before Posting to get the best possible advice | ... and this helped me a lot!: TFPC for Beginners

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    Re: Help with SWG selection

    No confusion, good info. I'm aiming for simple also, trying to get this thing setup to be as TF as possible so the kids can enjoy. One thing about the IC60 that I notice vs. the hayward is that it does not tell you the salt ppm, it just tells you if it is low. Not sure how brief/accurate a salt test is vs. the hayward cell that has the information, but may be useful when trouble shooting?
    18x36 in-ground, ~29k gallons, Pentair 3HP VS, Pentair CC+ 420, IC-40, EasyTouch Panel, In-ground cover, 100% DIY-reworked pad (thanks to help from this forum), TFP Test Kit, Near-antique heat pump...

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    Re: Help with SWG selection

    The pros and cons I see for your system:

    Hayward and Jandy are a tad small for your pool size. They will both work and both systems seem to have their past "issues" solved. Hayward is the brand that has sold the most units, are easy to troubleshoot, and has no need for automation to control the output down to 1% increments.

    The IC-60 is a good fit for your pool size. You have Pentair equipment already and can integrate easily with automation. The cells are more expensive to replace because the cell contains all the controls. The output % is only controlled by 20% increments without automation. The warranty for self-installs is a major problem for me, I believe it is only good for 60 or 90 days. With all the issues that I have gone through with SWG's, I would NEVER buy a SWG with that short of warranty.

    The CircuPool SWG's are a good fit for your pool size, I would recommend a 60 sized cell. The SJ's only have 20% increments for the output while the RJ's have 1% adjustments. If you choose CircuPool I recommend the RJ-60+.

    AutoPilot Digital has a good reputation and the RC-52 will be a good fit. The only negative with AutoPilot is the price, but it does have some features that the others don't have.
    16k gal plaster with raised spa, Jandy DEV60 filter, 2 HP 2-speed SHPF Jandy Stealth pump
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    Re: Help with SWG selection

    The RJs (at least mine) are adjustable in 5% increments. 10, 15, 20, 25, 30, 35...

    I have the RJ 60+, and run it 24/7 at 30% and maintain 4-4.5 FC
    Built in 1957 44,000 gallon in-ground, Wet Edge Primera Stone in Sky Blue, Intelliflo VF Pump, 600 lb. Pentair Triton II TR-100 Sand Filter, CircuPool RG 60 Plus SWG, TF-100 test kit
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    Re: Help with SWG selection

    Great info, I have similar feelings about the Pentair warranty. A very regressive company policy. I'm leaning towards the hayward, and possibly putting the unit on the 1 1/2 line that feeds the main jets.
    18x36 in-ground, ~29k gallons, Pentair 3HP VS, Pentair CC+ 420, IC-40, EasyTouch Panel, In-ground cover, 100% DIY-reworked pad (thanks to help from this forum), TFP Test Kit, Near-antique heat pump...

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    Re: Help with SWG selection

    If warranty is one of your criteria, I'll mention that the Circupool RJ series has a 5 year warranty, and the RJ+ series has a 7.
    Built in 1957 44,000 gallon in-ground, Wet Edge Primera Stone in Sky Blue, Intelliflo VF Pump, 600 lb. Pentair Triton II TR-100 Sand Filter, CircuPool RG 60 Plus SWG, TF-100 test kit
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    Pool Tool's Avatar
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    Re: Help with SWG selection

    Along the warranty lines, Hayward is now reducing their warranty on self installs as well. I don't know that their website reflects it but these are my notes from a conversation I had with them in late March of this year:

    I just spoke with Hayward customer support and this is the current warranty stance:

    - Professionally Installed = 3 year warranty. Professional Installation = installed by "someone in the trade" and install can be proven with receipt from install.
    - Self Install = 1 year warranty. Caveat here: Hayward will honor the 3 year warranty if a service center visits the install site and deems the installation "correct."
    I did not ask if the manuals would be updated or a correction published. I imagine this is a way to protect them from egregious error by a DIY'er, but then I would think the unit would still fail within a year. Ugh, unfortunate but somewhat understandable.

    As for the Circupool warranty, it is prorated effectively significantly shortening the warranty and is why I believe they market the "free upgrade to the next larger size." Warranty replacement would be the cost of the full priced equipment. Just something worth noting not deal breaking.
    16' x 32' (21100 gal), vinyl, 1.5 hp Hayward SuperPump,
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    Re: Help with SWG selection

    Quote Originally Posted by Pool Tool View Post
    As for the Circupool warranty, it is prorated effectively significantly shortening the warranty and is why I believe they market the "free upgrade to the next larger size." Warranty replacement would be the cost of the full priced equipment. Just something worth noting not deal breaking.
    Agreed. It is worth noting.

    Pentair told me on the phone once that they were going to shorten or eliminate warranties on products bought from retailers such as Amazon, and also for any equipment self-installed. That was a while back, I don't know if anything ever came from it.
    Built in 1957 44,000 gallon in-ground, Wet Edge Primera Stone in Sky Blue, Intelliflo VF Pump, 600 lb. Pentair Triton II TR-100 Sand Filter, CircuPool RG 60 Plus SWG, TF-100 test kit
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    Re: Help with SWG selection

    Thanks for that information, that is too bad. Still, better than 90 days. I said regressive, because the level of information available today via forums, youtube, etc for the thoughtful DIY'er is remarkable. I would think the companies could easily identify installation neglect upon inspection and be comfortable with offering equivalent warranty. There is so much collusion in the marketplace today.
    18x36 in-ground, ~29k gallons, Pentair 3HP VS, Pentair CC+ 420, IC-40, EasyTouch Panel, In-ground cover, 100% DIY-reworked pad (thanks to help from this forum), TFP Test Kit, Near-antique heat pump...

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    Re: Help with SWG selection

    Pentair should not care if the product is sold through Amazon, if the company selling the product was allowed to purchase from Pentair in the first place. It's all collusion with dealer networks. I just spent 1 week completely undoing a crazy and undersized install done by a local dealer 5 years ago. I sough some bids from 2-3 other local dealers. It turns out, the 2-3 dealers I sought bids from are all owned by the same company, with the same crazy high price 2-3x $ for pump & filter. Not that I wanted to sweat away all my free time this past week, but I wanted the project completed correctly, and this same dealer network hires manual laborers with no attachment to the quality of their work...so really, this local monopoly gave me no choice. It's really about these types of local monopolies fighting with manufacturers to protect their ability to price gouge.

    Quote Originally Posted by RobbieH View Post
    Agreed. It is worth noting.

    Pentair told me on the phone once that they were going to shorten or eliminate warranties on products bought from retailers such as Amazon, and also for any equipment self-installed. That was a while back, I don't know if anything ever came from it.
    18x36 in-ground, ~29k gallons, Pentair 3HP VS, Pentair CC+ 420, IC-40, EasyTouch Panel, In-ground cover, 100% DIY-reworked pad (thanks to help from this forum), TFP Test Kit, Near-antique heat pump...

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    Re: Help with SWG selection

    So you know, I bought my pump from Amazon. It came with a faulty drive right out of the box. Pentair was quick to point right at Amazon, stating they have been improperly storing or handling the pumps, and that they get calls all the time regarding DOA pumps from Amazon. That's when she told me they were considering eliminating the warranty on their pumps sold through Amazon. She also asked who installed my pump, and then she talked about the changes in warranty for doing a self-install.
    Built in 1957 44,000 gallon in-ground, Wet Edge Primera Stone in Sky Blue, Intelliflo VF Pump, 600 lb. Pentair Triton II TR-100 Sand Filter, CircuPool RG 60 Plus SWG, TF-100 test kit
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    Re: Help with SWG selection

    Sorry, I went political. Do the SWG produce any external odor?
    18x36 in-ground, ~29k gallons, Pentair 3HP VS, Pentair CC+ 420, IC-40, EasyTouch Panel, In-ground cover, 100% DIY-reworked pad (thanks to help from this forum), TFP Test Kit, Near-antique heat pump...

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    Re: Help with SWG selection

    Quote Originally Posted by PNWDad View Post
    Sorry, I went political. Do the SWG produce any external odor?
    Nope. In fact we were in our pool recently and I was pointing out to my wife how our pool and water have ZERO smell.
    Built in 1957 44,000 gallon in-ground, Wet Edge Primera Stone in Sky Blue, Intelliflo VF Pump, 600 lb. Pentair Triton II TR-100 Sand Filter, CircuPool RG 60 Plus SWG, TF-100 test kit
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    Re: Help with SWG selection

    Ok, so now I'm looking at automation panels like the AquaPlus. I may start a separate post to get an idea of which brand heat pump people have had success with, as I will have to replace in the next year or two. I'm noticing that the AquaPlus PL-Plus has the ability to control the heatpump via temperature sensors and can be purchased with their salt cell for a slight premium $300-400. I have yet to look at the Pentair automation panels. Curious if consensus is that Pentair or Hayward make superior heat pumps for cool environments? Other brand?
    18x36 in-ground, ~29k gallons, Pentair 3HP VS, Pentair CC+ 420, IC-40, EasyTouch Panel, In-ground cover, 100% DIY-reworked pad (thanks to help from this forum), TFP Test Kit, Near-antique heat pump...

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    Re: Help with SWG selection

    Think I'm going with the EasyTouch IC40 combo for around $1100 US. Seems to compare well with the Aquarite-15. I will be able to replace my outdoor timer and then control the IC40, VS, and Heater through the EasyTouch. Later I may upgrade to a wireless interface or place an valve actuator on the 3 way to the heater or skimmer.
    18x36 in-ground, ~29k gallons, Pentair 3HP VS, Pentair CC+ 420, IC-40, EasyTouch Panel, In-ground cover, 100% DIY-reworked pad (thanks to help from this forum), TFP Test Kit, Near-antique heat pump...

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