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Thread: Ready to throw in the towel!!! Where is the bulldozer?

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    Ready to throw in the towel!!! Where is the bulldozer?

    Ok, so I have a 18x33 AG, Sand Filter pool. I have been battling green for weeks trying to start up. I have thrown tons of money at this thing and now my levels are way off after listening to the pool store! HELP!!!

    CYA 90
    FC 15
    pH 7.7
    Copper 1

    I'm still green, but the pool store thinks its the cooper from all the algaecide I threw at it. I assume I need some Chem Out to neutralize the chlorine. I flocked it last night since it was so cloudy...

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    Mod Squad tim5055's Avatar
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    Re: Ready to throw in the towel!!! Where is the bulldozer?

    Welcome to TFP!!

    My first suggestion is to stop going to the pool store. Their only response it to sell you something.

    I will tell you, it didn't turn green overnight and it will take time to clear. But, we can teach you how to get it sparkling and keep it that was for a lot less money than the pool store.

    Not much credence is given to pool store testing around here. While you would think that a "professional" would be the best, unfortunately in most cases it is quite the opposite. Between employees who blindly trust the word of chemical sales representatives and high school kids working in the pool store for the summer you end up with poor results from their testing. But, what can you do?? We base our pool care system on accurate testing and only adding what the pool needs, when it needs it. To do that you need your own accurate test kit. Order a TF100 and at least include the XL option. That will give you what you need while you are clearing the pool, and probably enough reagents for a couple of years normal use.

    While you wait for it to get delivered, you have a homework reading assignment. Start with ABCs of Water Chemistry and Turning Your Green Swamp Back into a Sparkling Oasis
    TFP Moderator 39 X 18 23,000(ish) freeform gunite; built 2007ish; Pentair Triton II TR100 600lb Sand filter; 2 HP Pentair pump with 2.2 HP AO Smith single speed motor; 2 skimmers, 1 main drain, 4 returns w/waterfall, Stenner 45MHP2 3GPD running@ 60% - 15 gal Tank; heated by the sun CYA 200+ when I started - 50 now. Dolphin Supreme M5 Pool Cleaner. Hot Springs SX Spa, 285 gallon

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    Re: Ready to throw in the towel!!! Where is the bulldozer?

    Yup I already ordered the new kit. I have looked through the pool school and read both of the links you mentioned. I fell upon the site this past weekend when my current test showed neon orange for chlorine. I swore something was way off! For weeks I couldn't get the chlorine to stay in the pool. I had already put stabilizer in when I had found this site. I figured with my chlorine levels so off the charts high no algae could be growing anymore. I have already vac the pool on waste and replaced almost 1/2 of the water and still have my CYA levels this high. Based on the charts, I would need to double my current level of FC... I was worried, A - it will take a ton of chlorine to accomplish that B - it will take forever to get the levels back down to safe swimming... Am I way off?

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    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: Ready to throw in the towel!!! Where is the bulldozer?

    Welcome!

    That much copper is going to stain the pool (big blackish splotches) and turn blonde hair green.

    I see a drain in your immediate future.



    The good news is, with fresh water and a proper test kit and our advice, you can get that pool sparkling like you've ever imagined in just a couple days. And thereafter, pool maintenance will take about as much time and be about as mentally taxing as brushing your teeth every night. And you'll never have to go inside a pool store again. Not even for their free testing, which as you've discovered, costs a bunch.

    But no amount of chemicals will remove that copper, and we can only guess at what kind of snake oils the pool store foisted off on you. Better to start fresh. Really.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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    Re: Ready to throw in the towel!!! Where is the bulldozer?

    That's what I was afraid off... The good thing is I am on a well! Bad thing, I'm on a well! that water will be ICE cold for a couple of weeks, water is a balmy 54 degrees out of the well! lol So i guess I should plan to drain tomorrow night. I think it took about 2 days to refill the pool last time. My hubby is fired from pool care, he started this by not covering the pool this past winter!

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    Re: Ready to throw in the towel!!! Where is the bulldozer?

    [QUOTE=lgwarren;1041605]Ok, so I have a 18x33 AG, Sand Filter pool. I have been battling green for weeks trying to start up. I have thrown tons of money at this thing and now my levels are way off after listening to the pool store! HELP!!!

    CYA 90
    FC 15
    pH 7.7
    Copper 1

    I'm still green, but the pool store thinks its the copper from all the algaecide I threw at it. I assume I need some Chem Out to neutralize the chlorine. /QUOTE]
    ************************************************************ **

    Your FC for that CYA is barely at MAINTENANCE level! To shock you'd need to get to ~40, and KEEP it there. Look at
    Pool Water Chemistry
    Your CYA is high enough to make the pool hard to maintain. Target is 30-50. Any solid Cl will add CYA.

    The green is algae. The green is algae. The green is algae.

    Go read the pool school pages when you get a chance.

    The first decision is whether you want to try to maintain at that high CYA level or drain half the water and refill.
    Then you need to keep the FC level at shock levels (With ONLY liquid chlorine- NO PUCKS, no trichlor, no dichlor!!) till all the green is gone, and the chlorine CC is <0.5, and FC level has minimal overnight drop. ="SLAM"

    Look at poolmath. A gallon of 10% hypochlorite will raise your FC about 9 ppm. Without a drain/refill to lower CYA, you need to add 2-3 gallons right now.

    IMHO, stop listening to the high school kids at the pool store. You'll soon know far more than they do.

    Good luck, Jim.....

    - - - Updated - - -

    And get a solar cover.

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    Re: Ready to throw in the towel!!! Where is the bulldozer?

    Welcome to TFP

    Keep reading

    I don't think it will stay that cold for too long. I'm on a well just a bit south of you and you have an AG pool which according to my chats with friends, warms up quicker that my in ground. If you get a good test kit and it turns out you need to drain, with your own testing you'll never look back.
    18*36*23 true "L" vinyl IG 29,000 gallons. SWG. TF-100 test kit.
    http://tftestkits.net/splash-page.html

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    Re: Ready to throw in the towel!!! Where is the bulldozer?

    might be worth it to price out a pool water delivery!
    Pool installed 8/2015. 30' round Radiant pool. 21,000 gallons. 200# sand. Hayward Vari flow XL valve. 1.5hp Hayward Power-Flo Matrix running 10 hours/day in two periods. TF100 with speed stir. Sun all day, south side of house
    Order test kit TF-100 w/ Speed Stir and then Poolmath Calculator --- RECOMMENDED LEVELS --- POOL SCHOOL --- Algae? --- Chlorine/CYA CHART.

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    Re: Ready to throw in the towel!!! Where is the bulldozer?

    My new test kit is due to arrive Friday/Saturday. Till then, tomorrow night I will vac to waste to rid what's on the bottom and plan to drain at least 1/2 to 3/4 down and refill by time the kit arrives, I hope to be back filled and at better levels to start the process again... Thanks for advice. I will update once the new kit arrives and my drain/refill is complete.

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    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: Ready to throw in the towel!!! Where is the bulldozer?

    Quote Originally Posted by lgwarren View Post
    My new test kit is due to arrive Friday/Saturday. Till then, tomorrow night I will vac to waste to rid what's on the bottom and plan to drain at least 1/2 to 3/4 down and refill by time the kit arrives, I hope to be back filled and at better levels to start the process again... Thanks for advice. I will update once the new kit arrives and my drain/refill is complete.
    Sounds like you've been reading a bunch here -- you already speak the lingo! One caution about vacuum to waste: if there are likely pine needles in the bottom, they can slip through the gaps in the pump strainer basket and clog the impeller. It's not a huge problem, but if the pump is spinning and you aren't getting much flow after a while, that's a good thing to check.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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    Re: Ready to throw in the towel!!! Where is the bulldozer?

    Yup, found that one out already this week. Hubby argued with me when I told him to check that last night, and of course, pine needles in impeller! I think all of the needles are out, I see only a few leaves and can see the bottom for the first time through the green hues! lol

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    Re: Ready to throw in the towel!!! Where is the bulldozer?

    Hey lgwarren..........I take care of our pool and hubby doesn't know how to do almost anything. He tells people "she takes care of the pool an the kids and I enjoy it"

    You'll get things straight in no time if you want to learn and keep reading
    18*36*23 true "L" vinyl IG 29,000 gallons. SWG. TF-100 test kit.
    http://tftestkits.net/splash-page.html

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    Re: Ready to throw in the towel!!! Where is the bulldozer?

    Quote Originally Posted by AimeeH View Post
    Hey lgwarren..........I take care of our pool and hubby doesn't know how to do almost anything. He tells people "she takes care of the pool an the kids and I enjoy it"

    You'll get things straight in no time if you want to learn and keep reading
    Thanks for the vote of confidence! I have completely taken over and he bowed right out! We are almost neighbors, I'm down in Columbia often for my son's travel baseball (only an hour drive south)!

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    Re: Ready to throw in the towel!!! Where is the bulldozer?

    Quick update, I have drained 1/2 the pool and refilled. My new kit is not here as of this morning. However, the water is clear. The liner is quite stained Using my existing test, the chlorine levels are still in the orange. So it appears the 1/2 drain/refill hasn't lowered the chlorine much. My pH is much lower, which I figured would happen and I am prepared to raise it. But think I may need to drain some more.

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    Re: Ready to throw in the towel!!! Where is the bulldozer?

    I'm not an admin or expert, but they regularly remind people to post their FULL test results every time, and to create a signature (go to settings, then look at the bottom of the left panel) so they can give you advice based on the actual numbers including pool volume and type. Even approximate results based on cheap strips (like I use) give some idea.

    When you say ' the chlorine levels ' no one knows if you mean TC, FC or even CC. And the target FC level depends on the CYA level.

    I'm not an expert on copper levels, but elsewhere on TFP, "Copper levels above 0.3 tend to cause stains. " FWIW, 0.5 is better than 1.0. YMMV.

    As someone said, 'lower' is not a number, and 'soon' is not a time.
    NUMBERS!

    The first three are related- TC=FC + CC
    CYA binds, preserves, but lowers effective FC
    CC represents organic or NH3 contamination (needs shock)
    So report

    TC
    FC
    CC (At least two of the three)

    CYA
    pH

    at a minimum.

    (others-TA, CH, etc. if you have them)
    12,000 gal concrete IG, Sta-Rite MaxEGlas 3/4 HP pump (230v 8A) Sta Rite System 3 Filter, Hayward Ultra crawler.
    10% Bleach bottles on bottom of pool. AquaChek 7 Strips, Clorox SmartStrips, Bakersfield City water.

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    Re: Ready to throw in the towel!!! Where is the bulldozer?

    Well I am finally there almost. I have dumped 1/2 the pool 2 times. As of today:

    CYA 51
    TC 4.6
    FC 4.3
    pH 7.0
    TA 123
    Copper 0.4

    I did get my new test kit, my home tests we within .2 of the store. But I haven't been able to get a CYA test at home close to their numbers. I need to watch another video maybe to see what I am doing wrong.

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    Re: Ready to throw in the towel!!! Where is the bulldozer?

    It's more likely the pool store is doing their test wrong. Trust your numbers.
    32K gallon Plaster - 1hp Hayward 2 speed Super Pump - Hayward S200 Sand Filter - TF100XL
    Test Kits - Pool Math - Chlorine/CYA/Target/Slam Chart

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    Re: Ready to throw in the towel!!! Where is the bulldozer?

    That's scary, cause my CYA test I did came in at 100. The guy at the store retested after I told him my test results from and he got the same results again. Do we think it's safe to use his CYA #?

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    Re: Ready to throw in the towel!!! Where is the bulldozer?

    Do we think it's safe to use his CYA #?
    Absolutely NOT
    CYA 51
    TC 4.6
    FC 4.3
    pH 7.0
    TA 123
    Copper 0.4
    These look like Pool Store numbers. What are your test results?
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Re: Ready to throw in the towel!!! Where is the bulldozer?

    Quote Originally Posted by duraleigh View Post
    Absolutely NOT
    These look like Pool Store numbers. What are your test results?
    I'm at the ball field right now, but I know my CYA = 100, i tried it 2 times. The first undiluted and the 2nd I did 50/50. first round of my chlorine test came to 4.8 (if I did it right, it took 24 drops x .2) the it took 2 drops in the next step...

    15,500 gallon, AG | Sand/Hayward | Taylor 2600K | Well Water | Located Just outside of Charlotte NC

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