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Thread: solar heating or gas heating?

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    solar heating or gas heating?

    Hi guys,

    I am new here, also the new owner of house with pool.

    My pool size is around 800-900sqft,not sure which heating system I should install.
    My goal is to extend the swim periods, and also get the water temperature up to 24 degree.

    I have a few questions regarding the solar system and gas system, really appreciate if you could give me some advice and opinions.
    • Solar system: for the size of my pool(800-900sqft),
    • 1. how long it takes to rise 1 degree under the solar system?
    • 2. how many pieces I need to buy?
    • 3, Usually how many years it can be used?




    • Gas Heating system:
    • 1. what btu heating equipment I should get? the sales man in store recommended me to go with 26,600BTU? Is it enough for my pool?
    • 2. how long it takes to rise 1 degree?
    • 3,as I know my city -oakville, canada charge $17/m3, so roughly how much will it cost if we like to use it every day?



    I am new and really hope you can give me some suggestions.

    Waiting for all your replies to make the decision.

    Thanks!

    Kathy Li

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    JoyfulNoise's Avatar
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    solar heating or gas heating?

    I'll let the other gas and solar experts chime in on recommendations but I will say this - you absolutely need to have at least a bubble cover on your pool to retain heat or else any heat you add to the pool will simply be gone overnight to evaporative heat loss. For example, it takes 1 BTU of heat energy to raise 1 pound of water 1 degree F. So in my pool, my gas heater would have to add over 2.4M BTU to raise the water a few degrees F. If left uncovered, 1 gallon of water at 80F will evaporate and take away with it over 86,000 BTUs of energy. At that rate, a loss of 1" of water overnight in my pool due to evaporation would take 2.5M BTU of heat energy out of the pool. 1" is reasonable at some times of the year for me because I live in a desert where there's low RH and the air temps can drop quite a bit at night relative to the pool water temperature. So I can spend 6 hours heating my pool a few degrees only to lose all of that heat and more if I don't cover it. And that 6 hours of heating would cost me ~$25 which I literally throw away if I don't cover the pool.

    Step 1 : Get a good thermal bubble cover for your pool.
    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    Isaac-1's Avatar
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    Re: solar heating or gas heating?

    Sorry I am a bit busy now, but the short answer is you need 75-100% of your pool surface area in common plastic unglazed solar panels, so 12+ 4x12 panels in your case, combined with a solar pool cover this should provide comfortable (well over 24C) swim temperatures from roughly the last frost in the spring until the first frost in the fall, or in other words roughly the same time span that it is HOT when you get into a car that has been sitting out in the sun all day.

    Ike

    p.s. quality panels should last 10+ years before starting to have issues
    Indoor 20x40 35,000 gallon vinyl pool with 1.5 HP 2 speed Jandy FloPro pump, Hayward EC75 Perflex DE filter, 11 4x12 Techno-Solis solar panels w/ Aquasolar controller, Aquabot Turbo T Robot Cleaner. Also LMI metering chlorine dispenser pump and HotSpring Jetsetter
    I use and endorse TFtestKits TF-100 from http://tftestkits.net
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    Re: solar heating or gas heating?

    I have a 18'x20'x26' True L with six SmartPool WWS601P Solar panels 2x20' on top of a pergola. I just plumbed in the panels Saturday. I have gone from about 81 on Sunday morning to 89 today. You can definitely feel the warmth coming out of the returns when the sun is shining.
    18x40x26 IG True L shape | Jandy Ei SWG | Hayward SP2607x10 Pump| Century UST1102 1HP motor | Hayward S244T filter | SmartPool WWS601P Solar panels 2'x20' Quantity 6, clear solar blanket

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    Re: solar heating or gas heating?

    Just a solar cover will raise the temp 8-10 degrees C (~15-17 F), so that's a great place to start.

    Mother Earth News used to have articles about 100-200' of 1.5" (30-60m x40mm) black poly pipe in a flat spiral attached to your filter pump as a fast expedient heater. Depending on your layout and formality vs $$ it might be worth a try.

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    Re: solar heating or gas heating?

    Quote Originally Posted by VWFeature View Post
    Just a solar cover will raise the temp 8-10 degrees C (~15-17 F), so that's a great place to start.

    Mother Earth News used to have articles about 100-200' of 1.5" (30-60m x40mm) black poly pipe in a flat spiral attached to your filter pump as a fast expedient heater. Depending on your layout and formality vs $$ it might be worth a try.
    Despite previously having been talked out of a DIY solar attempt with block poly pipe, I like the idea of wrapping some of that pipe around the filter and doing a sort of local to the pump pad solar panel. That might at least buy me some time until I can get around to putting solar panels on my roof.

    17,500 gallon IG Vinyl
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    Pentair Challenger 1.5HP pump CFII N1 1.5A
    Taylor K-2006-A, Stenner 45MPHP10 auto chlorine feed

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    Re: solar heating or gas heating?

    Hi Guys,

    Thanks for all your replies. so the solar heating system plus bubble cover are good in my case. I have checked some websites. the panel is installed on the roof. but my husband wants to install on the ground. do you think that works? haha , want to save some $$$ and install by ourselves. regarding to the bubble cover and the solar system kit, do you have some stores suggestions? I live in Oakville Cananda. Thanks again.

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    Re: solar heating or gas heating?

    Yes, you can install it on the ground depending on the system purchased. Just follow the manufacturer instructions
    18x40x26 IG True L shape | Jandy Ei SWG | Hayward SP2607x10 Pump| Century UST1102 1HP motor | Hayward S244T filter | SmartPool WWS601P Solar panels 2'x20' Quantity 6, clear solar blanket

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    Re: solar heating or gas heating?

    I have checked amazon. is this ok to install on the ground? is it good quality to reach my goal? Thanks!


    • -


    thank you guys, I search some posts and find this one looks fine(cheap). It can be shipped to canada. I think I will buy 9 pieces of it and install on the ground by myself. Is it ok for my pool?

    Eco Saver 20-Foot Solar Heating Panel System

    http://www.amazon.com/20-Foot-Solar-...=ATVPDKIKX0DER

    619Opb-POmL._AC_UL115_.jpg

    Thank you very much!!!!!!!!

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    Re: solar heating or gas heating?

    We just finished solar install a few weeks ago on our 2nd story roof. Ground or roof does not matter as long as it is oriented to the sun at the right time of the day and have the correct angle to help.

    In my case, our roof and orientation could not get much better. We would not have room on the ground anyway.

    We have a 400sq ft pool under a screen enclosure and installed that much in solar panels in FL. No solar cover. On the 1st day, the temperature went up 10 degrees. We set our automation to 86 degrees. The pump starts at 9am once the sun fully hits our roof and and by noon it is 86. We could get to 90 easily if we wanted too. I have noticed that each night, the temperature drops to about 79-80 or 6-7 degrees of temperature loss. Without the solar we would gain 3-4 degrees by the end o the sunny day.

    This is all my situation, yours might be very different but it should give you a idea that it can really help. I am not using a solar cover just since we won't often swim in the morning anyway and it is a hassle with limited room to store it in our situation. The only draw back in my case to not using a solar cover is that for 3 hours in the morning, the pump runs at a higher speed to push the water through the solar on the 2nd story. That will cost a little more.
    Matt
    2016 Pool Build: 12k IG Blue Granite Pebblesheen, Travertine Coping & Pavers, Pentair IntelliFlo, Intellichlor, Easytouch, Clean & Clear 320, Heliocol Solar - TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    SWG Run Time Calculator

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    Re: solar heating or gas heating?

    I have consulted with the pool guy, they told me that based on my pool size, the cost to install including the materials is around CAD $6500, and install on my roof. we have concern if it is too heavy for the water circulation. and my second story is customized built by my previous owner. not sure how sturdy the roof is , and recently we found the some part of the roof is start to loose, and probably we need to change it next year. so we decide to install on the ground. but now I am sure that solar system is good too.

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    Re: solar heating or gas heating?

    These are the panels I have mounted on top of a pergola as seen in the picture below. Amazon.com : Smartpool WWS601P Sunheater Solar Pool Heater for In Ground Pools : Swimming Pool Heaters : Patio, Lawn Garden . They have only been running a few days, but so far so good.

    IMG_20160530_121900072.jpg
    18x40x26 IG True L shape | Jandy Ei SWG | Hayward SP2607x10 Pump| Century UST1102 1HP motor | Hayward S244T filter | SmartPool WWS601P Solar panels 2'x20' Quantity 6, clear solar blanket

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    Isaac-1's Avatar
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    Re: solar heating or gas heating?

    alternatively you can build a rack to mount them on, see this recent / ongoing thread DIY Solar Pool Heater
    Indoor 20x40 35,000 gallon vinyl pool with 1.5 HP 2 speed Jandy FloPro pump, Hayward EC75 Perflex DE filter, 11 4x12 Techno-Solis solar panels w/ Aquasolar controller, Aquabot Turbo T Robot Cleaner. Also LMI metering chlorine dispenser pump and HotSpring Jetsetter
    I use and endorse TFtestKits TF-100 from http://tftestkits.net
    ~Remember TFP counts on your donations to keep this site ad free~

  14. Back To Top    #14

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    Re: solar heating or gas heating?

    Thank you guys so much for all the help, it is appreciated!

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    Re: solar heating or gas heating?

    by the way, what's a good thermal bubble cover? give u give me more details or recommend? I will buy them from amazon, thanks!

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    Re: solar heating or gas heating?

    I have a solar cover. I don't use it... to much of a pain to take on and off... not really a great place to stick a thing to roll it up on either as one side has a slide and you use the other side to sit/ walk/ get in... thinking about getting a roller thing... but yeah... tough call...
    IG, 25k gallons, 20x40 ft, Plaster, Pentair sand filter, variable speed pump, have a well, TF-100 test kit, Speed Stir

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    Isaac-1's Avatar
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    Re: solar heating or gas heating?

    They are basically a giant sheet of bubbble wrap, they work great at preventing evaporation and therefore heat loss from a pool, typical cost is under $100 online and they last a few years, in general we tell people buy the thinest / lightest cheap ones, as the thicker ones don't last much longer and cost and weigh more
    Indoor 20x40 35,000 gallon vinyl pool with 1.5 HP 2 speed Jandy FloPro pump, Hayward EC75 Perflex DE filter, 11 4x12 Techno-Solis solar panels w/ Aquasolar controller, Aquabot Turbo T Robot Cleaner. Also LMI metering chlorine dispenser pump and HotSpring Jetsetter
    I use and endorse TFtestKits TF-100 from http://tftestkits.net
    ~Remember TFP counts on your donations to keep this site ad free~

  18. Back To Top    #18

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    Re: solar heating or gas heating?

    from what I've read, they are mostly all bad. I just ordered a cheap blue one from amazon. Not sure when I'll get it since it wasn't Prime, but we'll see. I plan to make one of those DIY rollers I saw in one of the other forums, that involved using foam core pvc to make a roller that you twist up by hand. My pool is a 20'x30' diamond shape, and I bought a 18'x36' rectangle that I'll cut down and probably split in half. That way I can roll it up and store it easily during the off season.

    17,500 gallon IG Vinyl
    Pentair Tagelus TA60D Sand filter
    Pentair Challenger 1.5HP pump CFII N1 1.5A
    Taylor K-2006-A, Stenner 45MPHP10 auto chlorine feed

  19. Back To Top    #19

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    Re: solar heating or gas heating?

    I use a solar cover as well. It definitely helps with evaporation and heat loss at night. I just roll mine up on the roller and scoot it back when the pool is in use then unroll it back when done. Easy enough.
    18x40x26 IG True L shape | Jandy Ei SWG | Hayward SP2607x10 Pump| Century UST1102 1HP motor | Hayward S244T filter | SmartPool WWS601P Solar panels 2'x20' Quantity 6, clear solar blanket

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