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Thread: Possible victim of CYA conversion to ammonia

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    Possible victim of CYA conversion to ammonia

    Hello,

    I have been reading a lot of other post regarding the CYA conversion to ammonia. So far I have used a total of 10 gallons of bleach (77 ppm raise of FC) along with 2 lbs of shock (7.5ppm FC increase each) giving me a total of 92 ppm over all FC increase. I have been testing my water with the Taylor 2006-k test kit. I have 2 sets over numbers posted below:

    5/31/16

    FC: 0
    CC: .6
    PH: 7.0
    TA: 130 ppm
    CH: 200 ppm
    CYA: < 30 ppm

    After that reading I adjusted PH and CYA and added 2 more gallons of Chlorine bringing my FC level around 16ppm after a few hours.

    Ran pump overnight however, I didn't pass the overnight test, this mornings numbers.

    6/1/16

    FC: 0
    CC: <.2
    PH: 7.0
    TA: 130 ppm
    CH: 200 ppm
    CYA: < 30 ppm

    I then just added another gallon (10 total now) to bring the FC up to 7.7 ppm. (ran out of product will be heading to store)

    Am I on the right track here? The pool water looks crystal clear and you wouldn't be able to tell that the water was not balanced. Any help or guidance would be great thank you

    Pool background: 13000 gallons approx. Michigan just opened last weekend.
    21' round AG half in ground.Half the pool is 6'2" the other half 4'.13,000 gallons. 1-1/2" schedule 40 with inline Hayward CL200,Filter:Doughboy Media Master Series high rate sand filter Model#0-1701-016,Filter area 1.4 sq.ft. maximum pressure 25 PSI, filter media 150lbs no.20 filter sand Pump: Powerline XP series 1hp 11amps Pool was installed 6/2015,city water and currently using Taylor complete test kit FAS-DPD Chlorine K-2006

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    Texas Splash's Avatar
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    Re: Possible victim of CYA conversion to ammonia

    It's hard to tell right away if you truly have an ammonia issue. Even a pool with a heavy amount of organics can expend a lot of FC in just a couple hours or so. And it's way too early you be worrying about an overnight (OCLT) test. Leave that one for last. For now, I would definitely get a good amount of bleach and have it ready. Start by increasing your FC to 12 and check it again in 10 minutes then post back. If you held at least 6 or more FC, you probably don't have ammonia, just a LOT of organics and need to hold your SLAM FC better. Now after 10 minutes if you lost most of that 12 FC, let us know.

    Also provide the CC reading to us when you do the FC. Thanks.
    Pat (a.k.a. Texas Splash) ~ My Pool: Viking Fiberglass; 17,888 Gal; Waterway Supreme 2-sp/2-hp pump; Hayward Ctg filter; TF-100 w/ Speed Stir
    Vital Links: POOL SCHOOL, RECOMMENDED LEVELS, RECOMMENDED CHEMICALS, Poolmath Calculator, SLAM, Chlorine/CYA CHART.
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    Mod Squad YippeeSkippy's Avatar
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    Re: Possible victim of CYA conversion to ammonia

    If you have ammonia the FC you add will disappear in about ten minutes. It takes more and more chlorine to overcome ammonia but eventually the time between additions lengthen and the FC holds more.

    Your CYA should be brought up to 30 because you may be losing much of your chlorine to the sun. And how often are you testing and dosing? Start with a 10 minute test - add the prescribed amount to get to 12ppm of FC with the filter running. Then test in 10 minutes and let us know what that test for FC is.

    Go forth and test
    My Amazon Smile for November12K Fiberglass IG, Infinity 4000 automatic cover, SWCG, Hayward Sand Filter, Hayward 1.5 Pump, Doheny Discovery Robot, Savi Melody LED pool lights, outdoor speakers and other assorted doo-dads. Sundance Altamar Hot Tub.
    Our pool build--> Our Pool Solved Our Sloping Yard Skippy's Cheap Pool Cooler -->Skippy's New Fountain

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    Re: Possible victim of CYA conversion to ammonia

    Thank you for the quick responses, I will be going to pick up more bleach this afternoon and will perform the test and post the results around 3:30pm eastern time. A little more information I forgot to mention in first post. I did backwash my filter after 7 gallons of bleach do to an increase in pressure on filter. After that I put in the remaining 3 bottles respectively after checking FC levels.

    YippeeSkippy I have been checking an hour after putting in bleach, the results from today was from overnight approx 12 hours between last chlorine added. I did also add about 1.5 lbs. stabilizer to the skimmer and most if not all of that as dissolved. I didn't realize I could check the levels only after 10 minutes.

    I will post updated results shortly.

    Thanks
    21' round AG half in ground.Half the pool is 6'2" the other half 4'.13,000 gallons. 1-1/2" schedule 40 with inline Hayward CL200,Filter:Doughboy Media Master Series high rate sand filter Model#0-1701-016,Filter area 1.4 sq.ft. maximum pressure 25 PSI, filter media 150lbs no.20 filter sand Pump: Powerline XP series 1hp 11amps Pool was installed 6/2015,city water and currently using Taylor complete test kit FAS-DPD Chlorine K-2006

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    Texas Splash's Avatar
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    Re: Possible victim of CYA conversion to ammonia

    When you do get home later with the bleach, keep a couple things in mind ... whether it's algae or ammonia, the treatment is essentially the same concept which requires a very strict routine of monitoring the FC for the first couple hours - maybe every 15 minutes or so. That is critical. The FC demand will be high at first, so you may have to increase the FC back to SLAM level after just 20 minutes. But eventually you'll break through that "wall" where the FC takes-over the organics or whatever is in there and holds better. After a day or so, you should be able to back-off the FC testing to a much more relaxed frequency. As for backwashing ... that's typical for a pool with a lot of algae/organic matter in it. That's another reason we need the FC level to hold so it can start to kill and breakdown that stuff. We'll watch for your updates later this evening.
    Pat (a.k.a. Texas Splash) ~ My Pool: Viking Fiberglass; 17,888 Gal; Waterway Supreme 2-sp/2-hp pump; Hayward Ctg filter; TF-100 w/ Speed Stir
    Vital Links: POOL SCHOOL, RECOMMENDED LEVELS, RECOMMENDED CHEMICALS, Poolmath Calculator, SLAM, Chlorine/CYA CHART.
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    Mod Squad YippeeSkippy's Avatar
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    Re: Possible victim of CYA conversion to ammonia

    Quote Originally Posted by Grankel1 View Post
    I did also add about 1.5 lbs. stabilizer to the skimmer and most if not all of that as dissolved.
    Ummm.. Grankel? Did you put that CYA stabilizer in to the skimmer loose? And was that before or after you backwashed?
    My Amazon Smile for November12K Fiberglass IG, Infinity 4000 automatic cover, SWCG, Hayward Sand Filter, Hayward 1.5 Pump, Doheny Discovery Robot, Savi Melody LED pool lights, outdoor speakers and other assorted doo-dads. Sundance Altamar Hot Tub.
    Our pool build--> Our Pool Solved Our Sloping Yard Skippy's Cheap Pool Cooler -->Skippy's New Fountain

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    Re: Possible victim of CYA conversion to ammonia

    Ok have some updates:

    Yippee, I backwashed first, then I applied the the stabilizer loose along the ledges of the skimmer walls. I followed the manufactures directions of use however, after reading through some threads it seems I would have been better off placing the stabilizer in a sock....would this be correct?

    Purchased an additional 12 gallons of 10% chlorine.

    Tested at .5 ppm

    3:55pm initial reading:

    FC: 5.5 ppm
    CC: 0.2 ppm

    Put in 108 oz to increase FC to 12 ppm

    4:05pm (1):

    FC: 13.5 ppm
    CC: 0

    4:15pm (2):

    FC: 16.5 ppm
    CC: 0

    4:30pm (3):

    FC: 21.5 ppm
    CC: 0

    4:45pm (4):

    FC: 20.5 ppm
    CC: 0

    5:00pm (5):

    FC: 20 ppm
    CC: 0

    5:20pm (6):

    FC: 22.5 ppm
    CC: 0

    Stopped because of heavy rain (4 hour delay)

    9:20pm (7):

    FC: 14 ppm
    CC: 0

    9:40pm (8):

    FC: 16.5 ppm
    CC: 0

    10:40pm (9):

    FC: 16 ppm
    CC: 0

    All measurements were taken from the same location elbow deep with pump running

    Will take a full reading tomorrow morning... running low on reagents (order placed) Water looks great!!

    Thanks
    21' round AG half in ground.Half the pool is 6'2" the other half 4'.13,000 gallons. 1-1/2" schedule 40 with inline Hayward CL200,Filter:Doughboy Media Master Series high rate sand filter Model#0-1701-016,Filter area 1.4 sq.ft. maximum pressure 25 PSI, filter media 150lbs no.20 filter sand Pump: Powerline XP series 1hp 11amps Pool was installed 6/2015,city water and currently using Taylor complete test kit FAS-DPD Chlorine K-2006

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    Re: Possible victim of CYA conversion to ammonia

    In the morning, take your readings and then wait for a response before you do more than raise FC to 12 if need be.

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    Re: Possible victim of CYA conversion to ammonia

    6:40am (10):

    FC: 13.5 ppm
    CC: 0
    21' round AG half in ground.Half the pool is 6'2" the other half 4'.13,000 gallons. 1-1/2" schedule 40 with inline Hayward CL200,Filter:Doughboy Media Master Series high rate sand filter Model#0-1701-016,Filter area 1.4 sq.ft. maximum pressure 25 PSI, filter media 150lbs no.20 filter sand Pump: Powerline XP series 1hp 11amps Pool was installed 6/2015,city water and currently using Taylor complete test kit FAS-DPD Chlorine K-2006

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    Texas Splash's Avatar
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    Re: Possible victim of CYA conversion to ammonia

    You're in good shape. Definitely no ammonia. So from last night to this morning you lost about 2.5 ppm of FC right? Okay, so now you should be off to a regular "SLAM" (link below). Did you have any questions or concerns about that?
    Pat (a.k.a. Texas Splash) ~ My Pool: Viking Fiberglass; 17,888 Gal; Waterway Supreme 2-sp/2-hp pump; Hayward Ctg filter; TF-100 w/ Speed Stir
    Vital Links: POOL SCHOOL, RECOMMENDED LEVELS, RECOMMENDED CHEMICALS, Poolmath Calculator, SLAM, Chlorine/CYA CHART.
    If you enjoyed your TFP experience, please consider donating to Support TFP!

  11. Back To Top    #11

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    Re: Possible victim of CYA conversion to ammonia

    Yes, that is correct about 2.5 ppm loss overnight. Lots of fluctuation with theses readings would you agree? I clicked your link below in regards to SLAM I have read through it before but will again and follow the procedure. Thanks again for your help
    21' round AG half in ground.Half the pool is 6'2" the other half 4'.13,000 gallons. 1-1/2" schedule 40 with inline Hayward CL200,Filter:Doughboy Media Master Series high rate sand filter Model#0-1701-016,Filter area 1.4 sq.ft. maximum pressure 25 PSI, filter media 150lbs no.20 filter sand Pump: Powerline XP series 1hp 11amps Pool was installed 6/2015,city water and currently using Taylor complete test kit FAS-DPD Chlorine K-2006

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