Become a TFP Supporter Pool Math Forum Rules Pool School
Results 1 to 8 of 8

Thread: Equipment Rework: New filter and re-plumb

  1. Back To Top    #1

    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    Raleigh
    Posts
    5

    Equipment Rework: New filter and re-plumb

    Background first: my house is 28 years old and I've owned it for a year as of this past week. The pool is Gunnite with plaster finish (I think), original to the house, and I'm not sure how to describe the shape of it. Coffin-shaped?
    The pool has one skimmer and one main drain.



    The Problem
    You'll notice dead algae in the bottom. The pool filter I've got no longer seems to be doing a good job. When manually vacuuming the pool, it would get saturated enough that it would simply begin spitting the algae right back into the pool; a back-flush would bring it back into proper operation. But worse yet, it's leaking from around the multi-port at the top. When manually vacuuming the bottom of the pool a few weeks ago, I heard a little pop and spray. Looks like I shifted an O-ring at the top of my sand filter and it sprays water out when the filter gets full enough. It also appears that it used to have a pressure gauge, but the previous homeowner removed it at some point and blanked it off. I tried unscrewing the multi-port from the top of the filter to get at the O-ring and it didn't budge. So I'm pondering simply replacing it.

    A shot of the setup.



    The filter is a Tagelus TA-60 31 square-foot sand filter rated for 60 GPM. I have no idea how old it is. Modern manuals for the same unit - apparently a variant is still manufactured - say the manufacture date is the first four digits of the serial number in week/year format. Those digits are 6753 for me, so unless my filter was manufactured in 1953, then it's at least old enough that the statements I could find about manufacture date simply no longer apply. The multi-port isn't attached by a collar, but seems to be screwed in.

    It looks like the lines out to the pool are 1.5" (I admittedly haven't measured them), while the lines for the equipment are 2" (I have measured them). Lines to/from may be 2". I'll check when I get the chance.

    Making Plans
    I need to do some yard drainage work around the equipment to make sure rainwater stops flowing by it. Then I want to build a box around it of treated lumber and fill it with gravel so rain doesn't splash mud up on the equipment. I may also build a small shelter. Depends on what my HOA says I can do. The electrical boxes are under the bucket; and while the boxes are themselves set up with weather-resistant covers, there's a break in the conduit to the pool pump that needs repairing.

    On top of all that, I want to replace the filter unit and replumb some of this. I'm currently looking at Cartridge Filters. Sand filters are the easiest to maintain, but involve frequent back-washing that means I have to keep refilling the pool from my well. I like the idea of the cartridge filter and its "swap filter and done" possibilities. But that depends on which unit I get...

    Which Cartridge Filter?
    So as I can see it, I have two options for cartridge filters: single-element or multi-element. I've kept my search to Hayward, just because it's a name I know. Single element units top out at 200 square feet. Multi-element can get... big. With an 18,000 gallon pool, the minimum using the TFP-recommended math is 215 sqft. So 200 square feet would put me just under that.

    At the moment, I'm still inclined to choose a single-element filter, however, such as Hayward's C200S. It looks like it's built to be very easily disassembled, with a simple latch-and-twist removal of the top. With a single large filter costing about $115, it's also financially feasible to keep two filters on hand and swap filters when one gets dirty. Then I can run the clean filter while I go clean the one I just removed. The downside of the low square footage is that I'll be cleaning it more frequently.

    Jumping up to multi-element, I've looked at Hayward's C4030 425 sqft unit. With this size, I should be cleaning the filters much less frequently. The downside is when I need to do so, I'll need tools just to take the filter unit apart. The additional complexity means additional points of failure, too. A few Amazon reviews of the unit mention failing manifolds at the top of the unit, for example. A replacement filter set is $200 - $300.

    Replumbing
    Next plan is to replace the 90 degree fitting from the pump to the filter with more smoothly radiused elbows and try to do the same with the return from the filter to get rid of the extra bends in the pipe. Here's the order I'd like:

    From Pool -> Ball-valve Cut-offs for skimmer/main drain -> Pump -> Jandy 3-way for waste -> Flowvis -> Filter -> Check Valve -> In-line Chlorinator -> Jandy cut-off -> Return to pool

    Installing the Flowvis will help me be more accurate about my run-times to turn the pool over at least once per day. The Jandy 3-way will still let me pump to waste to drain the pool for the winter.

    And I figure I'll attach unions to the pool lines directly to the lines to/from the pool so I can disconnect/replace/reorient the lines to my equipment as needed. Do you all think I'll have any problems with pressure causing the unions to give out and leak at the lines from the pool? The previous homeowner put rubber couplers on those lines and I've had to tighten them once already; and I can watch them momentarily bulge every time I shut off the pump.

    As for the in-line chlorinator, I see strikes against using chlorine tablets. That and a floater are my current method. So I might have to abandon that idea. Switching to a cartridge filter means no more back-washing, and so my CYA levels would probably head skyward pretty quickly.


    Thanks, all. Sorry this thread is so long! But please provide any and all feedback on these plans and let me know how I can do it better and do it right!
    18k gal, IG Gunnite, SuperII 1HP pump, Tagelus TA-60 31sqft sand filter, X10 home automation control. Well water for refill (3 GPG hardness).
    Pool equivalent dimensions: 13.5' x 33', deep end is 76", shallow is 54".

  2. Back To Top    #2

    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Sacramento, CA
    Posts
    2,769

    Re: Equipment Rework: New filter and re-plumb

    bump
    22k gallon IG pebblefina, Jandy 1.5 HP VS, Jandy CV Cartridge filter, Fafco solar panels, Polaris 360 supply side cleaner, waterfall

  3. Back To Top    #3

    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    Raleigh
    Posts
    5

    Re: Equipment Rework: New filter and re-plumb

    Bump!

  4. Back To Top    #4
    mas985's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Pleasanton, CA
    Posts
    11,486

    Re: Equipment Rework: New filter and re-plumb

    Throw some DE in to your filter and that should allow you to vacuum out the dead algae.

    For a cartridge filter, I would go no less than 300 sq-ft. Otherwise, you will be cleaning it fairly often. I have a 400 sq-ft filter on a 20k pool and clean it only once per year.


    Installing the Flowvis will help me be more accurate about my run-times to turn the pool over at least once per day.
    Forget about turnover, it just doesn't matter. Please read this: Pool School - Determine Pump Run Time
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

  5. Back To Top    #5
    Charlie_R's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Mexico, MO
    Posts
    2,156

    Re: Equipment Rework: New filter and re-plumb

    Welcome to TFP!

    I see in your intro thread that you are planning to buy a proper test kit, that is a great first step.

    Your algae problem is easily fixed. I'm sure you have read a lot of Pool School, so you already have this in mind.

    Since you are going to be replumbing and doing dirt work, may I suggest that you separate the pump a bit further from where your pipes come up from the ground? Giving yourself a bit more room there will make it easier to plumb, and leave you more room for replacing any valve that eventually fails. Doing this will only have a negligible effect on you water flow. While you are replumbing, bear in mind that the DWV (Drain, Waste, Vent) fittings with their short collars will not be enough to form a good joint. Where you want to change the 90's to sweeps, you could use a pair of 45's. However, the change will really not give you much of an increase in flow. There are several threads here dealing with that, primarily from our resident hydrodynamic expert, mas985. Search for his posts if you are interested in this.

    Keep us posted on your progress!
    15'x48" 4500 gallon Intex pool, buried 1.5 ft. Pac-Fab Dynamo 3/4 hp pump. Hayward S180T sand filter, bought used. Taylor K-2006 test kit. Rocket mass heater based wood fired pool heater.

  6. Back To Top    #6

    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    Raleigh
    Posts
    5

    Re: Equipment Rework: New filter and re-plumb

    Quote Originally Posted by mas985 View Post
    Throw some DE in to your filter and that should allow you to vacuum out the dead algae.
    Good point. I've seen that around on the forums here. Though with my filter coming apart as it is, I'd probably blow the multi-port clean off once the pressure got up. When I switch to a cartridge filter, I'll probably look to prime it with just a bit of Purifiber.

    Quote Originally Posted by mas985 View Post
    For a cartridge filter, I would go no less than 300 sq-ft. Otherwise, you will be cleaning it fairly often. I have a 400 sq-ft filter on a 20k pool and clean it only once per year.
    Yeah, drat. This is one of those things where I know that going larger is sensible, but the single-element filters seem so much less complicated. From what I've been able to tell, all the multi-element filters use either a band clamp around the center or else, in the case of the System3, multiple locking points around the periphery.

    Quote Originally Posted by mas985 View Post
    Forget about turnover, it just doesn't matter. Please read this: Pool School - Determine Pump Run Time
    Got it. I'll read through this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie_R View Post
    I see in your intro thread that you are planning to buy a proper test kit, that is a great first step.

    Your algae problem is easily fixed. I'm sure you have read a lot of Pool School, so you already have this in mind.
    Yes, SLAM and proper chemical levels are the proper fix. The filter will be just to remove the dead algae and other particulates from the water.

    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie_R View Post
    Since you are going to be replumbing and doing dirt work, may I suggest that you separate the pump a bit further from where your pipes come up from the ground? Giving yourself a bit more room there will make it easier to plumb, and leave you more room for replacing any valve that eventually fails. Doing this will only have a negligible effect on you water flow. While you are replumbing, bear in mind that the DWV (Drain, Waste, Vent) fittings with their short collars will not be enough to form a good joint. Where you want to change the 90's to sweeps, you could use a pair of 45's. However, the change will really not give you much of an increase in flow. There are several threads here dealing with that, primarily from our resident hydrodynamic expert, mas985. Search for his posts if you are interested in this.
    The only problem I'll face is that if I remove the plumbed fittings for the lines coming from the pool, they're going to gush water because they're physically below the level of the water in the pool. For the skimmer, I could probably block it with a Gizmo, and for the main drain I might be able to block it with something like a main drain mat. That's the big hurdle, though, getting those fittings dry enough to change. Considering that I need to repair the pump electrical conduit anyway, it's not a bad idea to do it all at once.

    I'll search mas985's threads to buff up before I do any serious work, though. Thanks for the recommendation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie_R View Post
    Keep us posted on your progress!
    Will do!
    18k gal, IG Gunnite, SuperII 1HP pump, Tagelus TA-60 31sqft sand filter, X10 home automation control. Well water for refill (3 GPG hardness).
    Pool equivalent dimensions: 13.5' x 33', deep end is 76", shallow is 54".

  7. Back To Top    #7
    mas985's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Pleasanton, CA
    Posts
    11,486

    Re: Equipment Rework: New filter and re-plumb

    BTW, I forgot to add, if you close your pool at all, I would put in a filter bypass and a vac to waste capability. Otherwise you may end up cleaning the cartridge multiple times during opening.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

  8. Back To Top    #8

    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    Raleigh
    Posts
    5

    Re: Equipment Rework: New filter and re-plumb

    Quote Originally Posted by mas985 View Post
    BTW, I forgot to add, if you close your pool at all, I would put in a filter bypass and a vac to waste capability. Otherwise you may end up cleaning the cartridge multiple times during opening.
    Yeah, I want a waste capability for actually closing the pool, as well. So I'll put a Jandy 3-way just after the pump. That way pumping to waste will be easy. Thanks!

    EDIT: Thinking over it, I didn't grasp the suggestion for a bypass at the first. But it makes sense to have the ability to circulate the water in the pool when getting the chemicals right, to ensure a mix, while the pool is still a soup and before the filter can really do its work. I like it. And it's easy to add.

    By the way, what do you recommend for hooking the valves up to the main plumbing?
    18k gal, IG Gunnite, SuperII 1HP pump, Tagelus TA-60 31sqft sand filter, X10 home automation control. Well water for refill (3 GPG hardness).
    Pool equivalent dimensions: 13.5' x 33', deep end is 76", shallow is 54".

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •