Become a TFP Supporter Pool Math Forum Rules Pool School
Results 1 to 20 of 20

Thread: Stain ID Kit Results

  1. Back To Top    #1
    Ubrucen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Vancouver
    Posts
    31

    Stain ID Kit Results

    I have brownish-yellowish-white streaks on my vinyl liner. I tried the vitamin C test and it successfully lightened the stain. I decided to try out the Jack's Magic Stain ID kit to confirm what I am dealing with. It took over a week to receive the kit (special ordered to Canada) and was pretty excited to get it going. All of my ranges were on target for testing. As the stains aren't easily accessible to the surface, I filled a nylon with the product and placed it over a part of the stain as suggested. The powder didn't really dissolve and ended up trying to pour it over the stains. Overall, it was a bit of a disaster and do not feel any closer to confirming the stain ID. The 1st test - Iron, Cobalt & Spot etching stuff "seemed" to be the best, but I think I basically threw my $30 down the pool drain. I'm feeling a bit frustrated.

    Since the Vit C Ascorbic Acid worked --- any suggestions on bypassing another test kit and getting straight to a product? I'm wondering if I should just go for the Iron, Cobalt & Spot Etching Stuff and cross my fingers? I've also read favorable reviews on the StainFree product. I'm trying to get my "pool legs" but don't feel cut out for this stain ID test. Please help a girl out - I will get this one day (I hope).

    (Edit: I also tried a trichlor puck - the stain does not seem to be organic)

    Thanks!!
    16K IG Vinyl, Hayward Pro Series Pump, Sand Filter, Turbo Cell TCell 15, HaywardSuper Pump and 2 more pumps for for Slide, Waterfall, Powerfall, Hayward TigerShark cleaner

  2. Back To Top    #2
    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    DFW, TX
    Posts
    23,999

    Re: Stain ID Kit Results

    Well, that is a bit of a bummer. But, yes, you can move straight on to this, Ascorbic Treatment to rid Pool of metal stains
    TFP Moderator
    If TFP helped you or saved you money - Become a TFP Supporter! <--Click here
    2012 build and pics, 20k gal gunite, black onyx pebblesheen, OK flagstone, IntellifoVS, cart filter w/Pleatco, IC40 SWG, Solartouch, 5 12'x4' solar panels, HP50HA heat pump, 8mil solar cover, borates, TF-100 test kit, SONOS, Doheny's Discovery Robot, hot tub on bleach

  3. Back To Top    #3
    Ubrucen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Vancouver
    Posts
    31

    Re: Stain ID Kit Results

    Ok thanks! Would the Jack's Magic Purple Stuff be a good choice for a sequestering agent? I'm totally up for suggestions - I just noticed Jack's seems to be a popular one here.
    16K IG Vinyl, Hayward Pro Series Pump, Sand Filter, Turbo Cell TCell 15, HaywardSuper Pump and 2 more pumps for for Slide, Waterfall, Powerfall, Hayward TigerShark cleaner

  4. Back To Top    #4
    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    DFW, TX
    Posts
    23,999

    Re: Stain ID Kit Results

    Yes the purple is good for saltwater pools. Jack's makes good stuff.

    Have you seen this article? Might also be handy, Pool School - Metals in the Water and Metal Stains
    TFP Moderator
    If TFP helped you or saved you money - Become a TFP Supporter! <--Click here
    2012 build and pics, 20k gal gunite, black onyx pebblesheen, OK flagstone, IntellifoVS, cart filter w/Pleatco, IC40 SWG, Solartouch, 5 12'x4' solar panels, HP50HA heat pump, 8mil solar cover, borates, TF-100 test kit, SONOS, Doheny's Discovery Robot, hot tub on bleach

  5. Back To Top    #5
    Isaac-1's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    SW Louisiana
    Posts
    6,711

    Re: Stain ID Kit Results

    I agree the AA treatment is a good next move, although I prefer the variation on it where you first add Hydrogen peroxide to quickly eliminate all FC and start to work on the stain before adding the AA, otherwise is there is even a little chlorine left in the pool when you start it will quickly consume the AA before it can lift the stain. As a rule of thumb common dollar store / drug store hydrogen peroxide neutralizes FC at the same rate that common 8.25% bleach adds it. In other words a gallon of drug store 3% H2O2 removes about the same number of ppm's as a gallon of bleach adds.
    Indoor 20x40 35,000 gallon vinyl pool with 1.5 HP 2 speed Jandy FloPro pump, Hayward EC75 Perflex DE filter, 11 4x12 Techno-Solis solar panels w/ Aquasolar controller, Aquabot Turbo T Robot Cleaner. Also LMI metering chlorine dispenser pump and HotSpring Jetsetter
    I use and endorse TFtestKits TF-100 from http://tftestkits.net
    ~Remember TFP counts on your donations to keep this site ad free~

  6. Back To Top    #6
    Ubrucen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Vancouver
    Posts
    31

    Re: Stain ID Kit Results

    Again, thank you. The initial dose (per the product instructions) for the purple stuff is 1 quart per 10,000 gallons - should I anticipate needing just under 2 x 32oz bottles of purple for the ascorbic treatment (not including the regular maintenance afterward) - did I understand that correctly?
    16K IG Vinyl, Hayward Pro Series Pump, Sand Filter, Turbo Cell TCell 15, HaywardSuper Pump and 2 more pumps for for Slide, Waterfall, Powerfall, Hayward TigerShark cleaner

  7. Back To Top    #7
    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    DFW, TX
    Posts
    23,999

    Re: Stain ID Kit Results

    Yes, that is good with a little cushion for adding some extra if needed.
    TFP Moderator
    If TFP helped you or saved you money - Become a TFP Supporter! <--Click here
    2012 build and pics, 20k gal gunite, black onyx pebblesheen, OK flagstone, IntellifoVS, cart filter w/Pleatco, IC40 SWG, Solartouch, 5 12'x4' solar panels, HP50HA heat pump, 8mil solar cover, borates, TF-100 test kit, SONOS, Doheny's Discovery Robot, hot tub on bleach

  8. Back To Top    #8
    Ubrucen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Vancouver
    Posts
    31

    Re: Stain ID Kit Results

    And in planning ahead-- would it be fair to assume that the pool will be out of service for about a week or so until rebalanced, or do you think I should allocate more time for this process?

  9. Back To Top    #9
    Isaac-1's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    SW Louisiana
    Posts
    6,711

    Re: Stain ID Kit Results

    When I did mine due to iron filings getting into the pool and rusting when the new roof was installed, the entire process was done overnight.
    Indoor 20x40 35,000 gallon vinyl pool with 1.5 HP 2 speed Jandy FloPro pump, Hayward EC75 Perflex DE filter, 11 4x12 Techno-Solis solar panels w/ Aquasolar controller, Aquabot Turbo T Robot Cleaner. Also LMI metering chlorine dispenser pump and HotSpring Jetsetter
    I use and endorse TFtestKits TF-100 from http://tftestkits.net
    ~Remember TFP counts on your donations to keep this site ad free~

  10. Back To Top    #10
    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    DFW, TX
    Posts
    23,999

    Re: Stain ID Kit Results

    Just a couple of days, depending how slowly you want to raise FC afterwards. Day 1 treatment, day 2 start raising FC about 1 ppm per hour until you get to and hold minimum for your CYA, Chlorine CYA Chart. Then you can wait until, the next day and do the same to get to target level. Or go a little faster if you want.
    TFP Moderator
    If TFP helped you or saved you money - Become a TFP Supporter! <--Click here
    2012 build and pics, 20k gal gunite, black onyx pebblesheen, OK flagstone, IntellifoVS, cart filter w/Pleatco, IC40 SWG, Solartouch, 5 12'x4' solar panels, HP50HA heat pump, 8mil solar cover, borates, TF-100 test kit, SONOS, Doheny's Discovery Robot, hot tub on bleach

  11. Back To Top    #11
    Ubrucen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Vancouver
    Posts
    31

    Re: Stain ID Kit Results

    I'd sure like to pick up the recommended Ascorbic Acid product that was linked above in the how-to but am buying the AA in Canada. Does this product look acceptable?

    ASCORBIC ACID POWDER (1 lb (454gm)): Amazon.ca: Health Personal Care

    Edit: Ok the potassium, salts disclaimer is looking a bit sketchy? Anyone know where to get bulk AA powder in Canada?
    16K IG Vinyl, Hayward Pro Series Pump, Sand Filter, Turbo Cell TCell 15, HaywardSuper Pump and 2 more pumps for for Slide, Waterfall, Powerfall, Hayward TigerShark cleaner

  12. Back To Top    #12
    JoyfulNoise's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Tucson, AZ
    Posts
    11,619

    Stain ID Kit Results

    Just remember that sequestrant use is not a "one-time deal". You must add the sequestrant and then keep up the maintenance dosing as chlorine breaks down sequestrant over time. People often overlook that part and then they come back here angry the AA treatment didn't work or wondering why their stains came back.

    Do you know why these stains showed up in the first place? Do you have fill water from a well with metals? Is there a heater in your plumbing loop going bad?

    You need to understand the source of these metal stains and either eliminate them or mitigate them as much as possible.
    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

  13. Back To Top    #13
    Ubrucen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Vancouver
    Posts
    31

    Re: Stain ID Kit Results

    Copy that, I will stock up on Jack's Purple. Not sure about the stains. We moved in and inherited a room full of bioguard chems and most, if not all of the stains were already on the liner. I very recently came to the TFP site and am now all stocked with test kit, muriatic acid, etc and am moving forward. Is there an easy way to know if a heater in the plumbing loop is going bad? And I'm on city water.
    16K IG Vinyl, Hayward Pro Series Pump, Sand Filter, Turbo Cell TCell 15, HaywardSuper Pump and 2 more pumps for for Slide, Waterfall, Powerfall, Hayward TigerShark cleaner

  14. Back To Top    #14
    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    DFW, TX
    Posts
    23,999

    Re: Stain ID Kit Results

    No, not really. The only obvious sign that it is bad is a leak!

    If the stains are copper there are 3 likely possible sources copper based algaecides, copper based mineral sanitizers or low PH, 7.0 or less, eroding a copper heat exchanger in a heater. If you know the source and eliminate the source then you can lift the stains, sequester them and reduce the copper content through a series of partial drains. And not have to sequester or worry about metals stains anymore since your are maintaining your pool TFPC style.

    If they are iron stains then the most likely source is the fill water.

    But, we know how the stain ID kit turned out. Can you look up the most recent water report from your water provider? City, municipality, water district, etc? Ours posts an annual water quality report online with test results.

    You can try to look at the heater manual for that model to see if it has a copper heat exchanger or a titanium exchanger.
    TFP Moderator
    If TFP helped you or saved you money - Become a TFP Supporter! <--Click here
    2012 build and pics, 20k gal gunite, black onyx pebblesheen, OK flagstone, IntellifoVS, cart filter w/Pleatco, IC40 SWG, Solartouch, 5 12'x4' solar panels, HP50HA heat pump, 8mil solar cover, borates, TF-100 test kit, SONOS, Doheny's Discovery Robot, hot tub on bleach

  15. Back To Top    #15
    Swampwoman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Grand Rapids, MI
    Posts
    3,537

    Re: Stain ID Kit Results

    Ubrucen, I just want to add that you might even find the Jacks purple alone clears the stains. Eg. In a salt water environment with low-ish iron but faint step staining, it lifted them entirely.

    But in your case, with possible historic stains, the AA will be the most sure fire. Just remember that the AA lifts the stain, but its the sequestrant and the maintenance of same that will control NEW stains coming back

    With saltwater, sometimes mild iron seems to come from the salt itself. It will also help to make sure you control your ph as high ph causes metals to come out of solution. So aiming for 7.4 ish for swg may help.

    For AA these guys say they ship to Canada: Pure Ascorbic Acid (Vitamin C) Powder in Bulk | BulkSupplements.com

    PS I like Issac's suggestion re neutralizing the FC because that way your not riding low FC levels as long in terms of days. If you do the AA treatment, you'll find that you'll want to bring the FC back up with liquid chlorine until you get it to hold where you want it before turning your Swg back on, suspect. AA will fight it at first until the fresh FC beats the AA
    In ground extended Grecian, 22,000 gal, Hayward 220t sand filter, vinyl liner, dolphin m4 supreme.
    If TFP has helped you, please click to SUPPORT TFP!
    Helpful Links:
    GET A TEST KIT Chlorine/CYA Chart How to SLAM About Metals & Stains

  16. Back To Top    #16
    Ubrucen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Vancouver
    Posts
    31

    Re: Stain ID Kit Results

    thanks very much!! I have 3 bottles of bioguard polyguard algaecide (30%) in our pool storage. Can this be used in place of "polyquat" (I believe the recommended is 60%)? And if not is this polyquat a pretty standard pool store product that I could acquire in any brand?

    I'm sincerely grateful for everyone's assistance. I couldn't do this without you all!!

  17. Back To Top    #17
    Swampwoman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Grand Rapids, MI
    Posts
    3,537

    Re: Stain ID Kit Results

    My understanding is that it needs 60 in its name to be the TFP recommended product...but unfortunately, I can't explain why or comment as to whether the 30 would work

    Most important thing is to ensure there's no copper in it.
    In ground extended Grecian, 22,000 gal, Hayward 220t sand filter, vinyl liner, dolphin m4 supreme.
    If TFP has helped you, please click to SUPPORT TFP!
    Helpful Links:
    GET A TEST KIT Chlorine/CYA Chart How to SLAM About Metals & Stains

  18. Back To Top    #18
    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    DFW, TX
    Posts
    23,999

    Re: Stain ID Kit Results

    According to their website it is metal free so it should be ok.

    From their website
    Polygard Concentrate

    BioGuard Polygard Concentrate is a non-foaming polyquat algae preventative and algaecide that is excellent for use in pools with attached spas, fountains, or jetted returns
    600g/L polixetonium salts.
    Non-foaming.
    Metal free.
    Effective on all common algae types.
    Works with chlorine or bromine.
    Classified as Non-Dangerous Good
    TFP Moderator
    If TFP helped you or saved you money - Become a TFP Supporter! <--Click here
    2012 build and pics, 20k gal gunite, black onyx pebblesheen, OK flagstone, IntellifoVS, cart filter w/Pleatco, IC40 SWG, Solartouch, 5 12'x4' solar panels, HP50HA heat pump, 8mil solar cover, borates, TF-100 test kit, SONOS, Doheny's Discovery Robot, hot tub on bleach

  19. Back To Top    #19
    Ubrucen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Vancouver
    Posts
    31

    Re: Stain ID Kit Results

    I've finally got all pieces and am getting started! A few questions.
    1)Does it matter if there's a bit of dirt/ some bugs on pool floor? It's not a huge amount and would prefer to get going but will take time to vacuum if it's important. 2)With the hydrogen peroxide, should it simply be broadcasted into the pool and should I wait a certain time before measuring chlorine? Will it take effect quickly?
    3) the arm & hammer soda wash - should that be measured out about the same as you would borax?
    4) oh and the polyquat- can/ should that be added before balancing ph and can it be added right before hydrogen peroxide?

    I'm excited!

  20. Back To Top    #20
    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    DFW, TX
    Posts
    23,999

    Re: Stain ID Kit Results

    I would net out the bugs or big stuff just because there won't be any chlorine in the pool for a bit.
    Pour the hyd per in front of a return pump running, I believe it works quickly, not sure, I would test in 15 min.
    Use Effects of Adding Chemicals down lower in Poolmath to calculate the soda ash.
    I would add polyquat right after the hyd per.

    Good luck!
    TFP Moderator
    If TFP helped you or saved you money - Become a TFP Supporter! <--Click here
    2012 build and pics, 20k gal gunite, black onyx pebblesheen, OK flagstone, IntellifoVS, cart filter w/Pleatco, IC40 SWG, Solartouch, 5 12'x4' solar panels, HP50HA heat pump, 8mil solar cover, borates, TF-100 test kit, SONOS, Doheny's Discovery Robot, hot tub on bleach

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •