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Thread: What caused my wrinkle?

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    What caused my wrinkle?

    Yesterday when I opened the auto cover on our pool I seen a big wrinkle about 18" long below the simmer. It ran from the simmer on the wall towards the bottom of the pool. Sorry I didn't get a pic of it. I was able to work the wrinkle out and can't tell it was even there now. Here are my numbers.
    FC 6.5
    CC 0
    PH 7.6
    TA 80
    CH 350
    CYA 50
    I am having a FC drop of 2.5 to 3.0 a day. Was adding CL to 9 to account for that. Was running variable speed pump 16 hours a day. Not running from 12:00 AM to 8:00 AM. CL PH Testing and adding CL at 8:00 PM. Closing cover after that to keep heat in water. Run heater from 8:00 am to 12:00 pm if needed. I heat the water to 82 degrees.

    I don't think that it was a chemical wrinkle as I was able to get it out of the liner.

    Last night I left the pump run on 1200 rpm all night and no wrinkle today not saying that was what caused it.
    Have used the auto cover closed with heat on before during the last three years.
    We have had no large rain amounts and there was no water behind the liner.
    I really don't know what caused the wrinkle so I would like your opinion.
    15000 gal, IN, Hayward Super Pump VS, Hayward Heat Pro Titanium heat pump model number HP2110T, vinyl, Dolphin Apollo.
    Hayward sand filter model number S210T, TF-100 test kit with speed stir. It was built in 2012.

  2. Back To Top    #2

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    Re: What caused my wrinkle?

    I lowered the chlorine level and seems to help.


    15000 gal, IN, Hayward Super Pump VS, Hayward Heat Pro Titanium heat pump model number HP2110T, vinyl, Dolphin Apollo.
    Hayward sand filter model number S210T, TF-100 test kit with speed stir. It was built in 2012.

  3. Back To Top    #3
    Mod Squad JVTrain's Avatar
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    Re: What caused my wrinkle?

    Hard to explain if you have no symptoms of a leak, such as water loss, or recent heavy rainfalls with a high water table...
    Joel - TFP Moderator - Minnesota - **Become a TFP Supporter!** Helpful Links: ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry - SLAM Procedure - Chlorine/CYA Chart
    40x20 Pool: 32K Gallons * Vinyl * Bleach Chlorination * Hayward S270T Sand Filter * Pentair SuperFlo 1 HP * Teledyne/Laars Heater * AquaVac Tigershark * TF-100 w/ SpeedStir
    Isolated Spa - 345 Gallons

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    Re: What caused my wrinkle?

    Do you lose water with the pump NOT running? It could be a skimmer leak that leaks only when the pump is off. I can not imagine it has anything to do with FC at 9 and CYA at 50. That should be absolutely no issue at all.
    16' x 32' (21100 gal), vinyl, 1.5 hp Hayward SuperPump,
    Tagelus TA60/60D Sand Filter, Raypak 399K Digital Heater, TF-100

  5. Back To Top    #5

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    Re: What caused my wrinkle?

    It has spread to other parts of the pool yesterday. Liner is loose fitting in places now.


    15000 gal, IN, Hayward Super Pump VS, Hayward Heat Pro Titanium heat pump model number HP2110T, vinyl, Dolphin Apollo.
    Hayward sand filter model number S210T, TF-100 test kit with speed stir. It was built in 2012.

  6. Back To Top    #6

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    Re: What caused my wrinkle?

    I did a retest of the CYA level this morning as the sun is out very bright today and I get a reading of 40. Yhis is very strange. Open to any ideas.


    15000 gal, IN, Hayward Super Pump VS, Hayward Heat Pro Titanium heat pump model number HP2110T, vinyl, Dolphin Apollo.
    Hayward sand filter model number S210T, TF-100 test kit with speed stir. It was built in 2012.

  7. Back To Top    #7

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    Re: What caused my wrinkle?

    Did a retest of CYA this morning as it is sunny and got a reading of 40. This is very strange. Open to any ideas.


    15000 gal, IN, Hayward Super Pump VS, Hayward Heat Pro Titanium heat pump model number HP2110T, vinyl, Dolphin Apollo.
    Hayward sand filter model number S210T, TF-100 test kit with speed stir. It was built in 2012.

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    Mod Squad JVTrain's Avatar
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    Re: What caused my wrinkle?

    Do you have any symptoms of a leak, such as water loss or having to refill more often than usual?
    Joel - TFP Moderator - Minnesota - **Become a TFP Supporter!** Helpful Links: ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry - SLAM Procedure - Chlorine/CYA Chart
    40x20 Pool: 32K Gallons * Vinyl * Bleach Chlorination * Hayward S270T Sand Filter * Pentair SuperFlo 1 HP * Teledyne/Laars Heater * AquaVac Tigershark * TF-100 w/ SpeedStir
    Isolated Spa - 345 Gallons

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    Re: What caused my wrinkle?

    I had a different bottle of the R-0013 CYA reagent and retested with it ruling out anything wrong the reagent I was using and it was 40. My FC is at 3 and the liner is looking better?????? Any ideas are welcome.

    - - - Updated - - -

    No leaks. I topped it off on Saturday and still at that level.
    15000 gal, IN, Hayward Super Pump VS, Hayward Heat Pro Titanium heat pump model number HP2110T, vinyl, Dolphin Apollo.
    Hayward sand filter model number S210T, TF-100 test kit with speed stir. It was built in 2012.

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    Pool Tool's Avatar
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    Re: What caused my wrinkle?

    Razor - you obviously don't have an autofill do you? I just have to ask. My vinyl pool has stayed at elevated FC for weeks before and I never had the liner shift or fade or anything. I just cannot imagine this is a chemical issue, but have no good idea otherwise. I have only seen liners shift or bulge do to hydrostatic pressure pushing the liner out from behind.
    16' x 32' (21100 gal), vinyl, 1.5 hp Hayward SuperPump,
    Tagelus TA60/60D Sand Filter, Raypak 399K Digital Heater, TF-100

  11. Back To Top    #11

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    Re: What caused my wrinkle?

    No auto fill . Yesterday I could put my hand on liner in place by simmer and move it easily. To day it is solid with no wrinkle. Yesterday I seen wrinkles forming around the light. Today they are going away. I looks like a chemical issue now but I don't understand why it is. Thinking of raising CYA to 50 and treat it as it is 30. I can't run out of FC.
    15000 gal, IN, Hayward Super Pump VS, Hayward Heat Pro Titanium heat pump model number HP2110T, vinyl, Dolphin Apollo.
    Hayward sand filter model number S210T, TF-100 test kit with speed stir. It was built in 2012.

  12. Back To Top    #12
    Pool Tool's Avatar
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    Re: What caused my wrinkle?

    Hopefully a few more folks will weigh in. That FC concentration is quite low already and even if it was high - it seems odd that it would be localized stretching of the liner. There has to be something behind it to push against the weight of the water on the inside of the pool and bubble it out. If liner was just stretching, I think it would do more sagging down then bulging out. I am definitely not saying you are wrong, just perplexing as many, many members manage levels in line with your's without liner issues. Definitely and worrying scenario.

    Do you have landscape irrigation lines close? Some other source of water independent of the pool nearby?
    16' x 32' (21100 gal), vinyl, 1.5 hp Hayward SuperPump,
    Tagelus TA60/60D Sand Filter, Raypak 399K Digital Heater, TF-100

  13. Back To Top    #13

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    Re: What caused my wrinkle?

    No auto fill . Yesterday I could put my hand on liner in place by simmer and move it easily. To day it is solid with no wrinkle. Yesterday I seen wrinkles forming around the light. Today they are going away. I looks like a chemical issue now but I don't understand why it is. Thinking of raising CYA to 50 and treat it as it is 30. I can't run out of FC.
    15000 gal, IN, Hayward Super Pump VS, Hayward Heat Pro Titanium heat pump model number HP2110T, vinyl, Dolphin Apollo.
    Hayward sand filter model number S210T, TF-100 test kit with speed stir. It was built in 2012.

  14. Back To Top    #14

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    Re: What caused my wrinkle?

    Yesterday I found it in several places in the pool. It started below the simmer of that was the only one I noticed at that time. The wrinkles were like pluckering with no water behind them. To it is getting better but I have not added Chlorine in 24 hours.
    15000 gal, IN, Hayward Super Pump VS, Hayward Heat Pro Titanium heat pump model number HP2110T, vinyl, Dolphin Apollo.
    Hayward sand filter model number S210T, TF-100 test kit with speed stir. It was built in 2012.

  15. Back To Top    #15
    Mod Squad JVTrain's Avatar
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    Re: What caused my wrinkle?

    That it's going away the same time as you're allowing FC levels to fall is more likely coincidence than correlation. That change in FC level is fairly insignificant when it comes to the aggressiveness or overall chemistry of the pool water.
    Joel - TFP Moderator - Minnesota - **Become a TFP Supporter!** Helpful Links: ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry - SLAM Procedure - Chlorine/CYA Chart
    40x20 Pool: 32K Gallons * Vinyl * Bleach Chlorination * Hayward S270T Sand Filter * Pentair SuperFlo 1 HP * Teledyne/Laars Heater * AquaVac Tigershark * TF-100 w/ SpeedStir
    Isolated Spa - 345 Gallons

  16. Back To Top    #16

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    Re: What caused my wrinkle?

    I added chlorine yesterday when it was looking better. Added to FC 7 and within three hours I was having problems again. I havent added since then and it looks good. If it is not the chlorine I have no idea what it could be.


    15000 gal, IN, Hayward Super Pump VS, Hayward Heat Pro Titanium heat pump model number HP2110T, vinyl, Dolphin Apollo.
    Hayward sand filter model number S210T, TF-100 test kit with speed stir. It was built in 2012.

  17. Back To Top    #17

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    Re: What caused my wrinkle?

    I only had my VS pump for a couple of weeks. When I was adding chlorine I was running it on high for 30 minutes. Should that time be longer?


    15000 gal, IN, Hayward Super Pump VS, Hayward Heat Pro Titanium heat pump model number HP2110T, vinyl, Dolphin Apollo.
    Hayward sand filter model number S210T, TF-100 test kit with speed stir. It was built in 2012.

  18. Back To Top    #18
    Swampwoman's Avatar
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    Re: What caused my wrinkle?

    This is olny a wild-arsed guess here.
    Low Ph from a covered crash is normally the first suspect in liner vinyl expansion/wrinkles, and high ph is the second suspect in terms of liner aging behavior.

    But maybe with only a half hour, low speed circ combined with autocover and heat, you're getting unevenly distributed ph?

    Why not dose in the morning, once the cover is open, leaving it lower at night when the cover is closed and see if that improves liner behavior?

    You didn't crash TA/ph wise over the winter, did you? That can change the composition of the vinyl so that its heavy and stretches.
    In ground extended Grecian, 22,000 gal, Hayward 220t sand filter, vinyl liner, dolphin m4 supreme.
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  19. Back To Top    #19
    Pool Tool's Avatar
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    Re: What caused my wrinkle?

    Razor - So you see a correlation between chlorine additions and the liner bulges right? Do you always run the pump at high when you add chlorine? Your chlorine will still mix at low speed, albeit just a little slower. Leave your pump on low when you add today so you can rule out that out as a contributor and let us know.

    Thanks, good luck.
    16' x 32' (21100 gal), vinyl, 1.5 hp Hayward SuperPump,
    Tagelus TA60/60D Sand Filter, Raypak 399K Digital Heater, TF-100

  20. Back To Top    #20

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    What caused my wrinkle?

    My PH and TA were both high when I opened the pool. Will try your suggestions. Even the wrinkles around the light are going away now. The month of April I was slamming the pool without any problems. I didn't start getting any problems this year until I started the heat pump and closing the cover at night last week.


    15000 gal, IN, Hayward Super Pump VS, Hayward Heat Pro Titanium heat pump model number HP2110T, vinyl, Dolphin Apollo.
    Hayward sand filter model number S210T, TF-100 test kit with speed stir. It was built in 2012.

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