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Thread: New plaster - fill with well water?

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    New plaster - fill with well water?

    Getting plastered in a few days (and right now with a beer on the couch!) and debating how I should fill and if I'll be ok off the well. I feel we'll be ok, but still nervous and considering trucked in water. Opinions???

    Details:
    I know we have a strong well it flows strong without needing a tank. Well driller didn't have to go down far at all, I seem to remember 88 feet. Both well and home inspector mentioned the strength of water and it is a good well.

    Have water filter/softener. I am fairly certain it is not due to iron. Nothing has ever stained and water always crystal clear from both filtered water and hoses that don't get filtered.

    My plan fill slow and steady from two hoses, one filtered and one not. Keep an eye on water in case I need to change the water filter.

    Thoughts? Advice? After spending the cash for a replaster I don't want it messed up!!!
    30K gal IG w/ hot tub
    Pentair DE filter, 2 single speed pumps

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    JoyfulNoise's Avatar
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    Re: New plaster - fill with well water?

    Bring a sample to the pool store and ask them to test it for iron. Tell them it is fill water from your well. They can at least give you an idea if it will be aggressive towards plaster.

    Who is doing the plaster start up and what process are they using?
    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    JoyfulNoise's Avatar
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    Re: New plaster - fill with well water?

    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    Re: New plaster - fill with well water?

    If the well test positive for iron, I would not use it. Also make sure if you truck in water that it is iron free.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
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    Re: New plaster - fill with well water?

    I wasn't aware pool stores test for metals, thanks for the heads-up. Brought sample and Well water tested good-no metals. Builder is doing the start-up, not the one using acid. My neighbor has city water that is pool-good, his hose is the back-up fill method if I have problems.

    I had read, and then reread plaster startup here, then read new plaster startup from builders websites. I am ready to do this!

    thanks for help and info.
    30K gal IG w/ hot tub
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    Re: New plaster - fill with well water?

    Take it slow. On for a few. Off for a few hours. I did it with a 26k

    Southern New Hampshire, 18x36 single roman end pool.

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    Re: New plaster - fill with well water?

    Dr drool, please don't take this as a lack of confidence on my part, but I just want to confirm that the water you took for testing wasn't from a house spigot that goes through your softener, OR that your outdoor spigot isn't plumbed to the softener.

    The reason I ask is because if either is true, you will be fine for the first 1200 gallons or so but then while the softener is regenerating, raw well water will continue to dump into your pool.

    So if the test was of verified raw well water, you're good to go, but remember that there may also be high calcium and magnesium in that well...and that homes don't usually have a softener unless they're higher in grain of hardness.

    Some people will truck in one load, eg. Partial fill to start, then fill the second half with well to save money but reduce wear on well, higher than desired ch, or magnesium, which can stain.

    This is worth consideration, IMHO, but I'm a bit biased because I am on your well's evil twin sister who loves to sneak iron in any way she can
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    Re: New plaster - fill with well water?

    Yup, we have two spigots that get filtered and a branch before the filter that gets two more hoses, a laundry sink, and sprinkler system. All sources of water tested and passed- no metals or calcium to be concerned with. The only reason there is a softener is because of sulfer, egg stink in the water that passes around the filter. I am good with sulfer water, right? I don't want any stains on the fresh plaster.

    All that said I know filling constantly is important and my only concern now-I'll probably get a truck load or two. Vol fire department has a service and get the water from local water treatment facility.

    Thanks all
    30K gal IG w/ hot tub
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    Re: New plaster - fill with well water?

    Depending on the hydrogen sulfide concentration, the chlorine you add to the water will oxidize the H2S BUT it will form both elemental sulfur and sulfates. This can temporarily cause clouded water. The sulfur will eventually be oxidized to sulfates but it's a slower reaction.
    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    Re: New plaster - fill with well water?

    Quote Originally Posted by JoyfulNoise View Post
    Depending on the hydrogen sulfide concentration, the chlorine you add to the water will oxidize the H2S BUT it will form both elemental sulfur and sulfates. This can temporarily cause clouded water. The sulfur will eventually be oxidized to sulfates but it's a slower reaction.
    but it won't stain new plaster, right? I've read up a ton sulfer heavy water in the pool and think I'll be ok.

    Thanks for the knowledge.
    30K gal IG w/ hot tub
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    Re: New plaster - fill with well water?

    It is NOT good to fill with high sulfate water. If high enough and refilling over time, the sulfates build up and combines with calcium to form sharp crystals on the plaster.

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    Re: New plaster - fill with well water?

    Thanks, onBalance. Question on that: The pool and tiles (those that were left) were spotless and the pool tiles are well over a decade old. If the sulfur content was too high wouldn't all the filling and topping off over the years result in those sharp crystals?

    Lot of learning being done here for me!
    30K gal IG w/ hot tub
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    Re: New plaster - fill with well water?

    Just dug out the Examination of Water that was done by a lab when we bought the house. Iron came in at 0.3. I read somewhere that that any higher and you don't want to put that in the pool, that is the top of acceptable range. Pool store told me my reading on Iron was fine, but then I found the lab report. Is that number acceptable, 0.3 mg/l Iron? (that converts to 0.3 ppm, right?)

    I know the previous owners filled exclusively from the well and never had a problem, I spoke to their pool maintenance company which did everything for them.

    All the "what ifs" have me scratching my head. Dont want the new plaster messed up!
    30K gal IG w/ hot tub
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    JoyfulNoise's Avatar
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    New plaster - fill with well water?

    For fill water in an old, established pool, it's probably ok. For a newly plastered pool, no good! Why, because plaster surfaces that are curing can have very high pH. High pH will drive metal scale. You might be able to manage it with a heavy startup dose of sequestrant but I wouldn't want to rely on that.

    You probably need to seriously consider trucked in, metal free water, as much as you can get.
    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    Re: New plaster - fill with well water?

    +1 on at least a partial truck to dilute. .3 in my pool does stain...slowly but surely, at anything higher than say 7.3 or 7.4 ph

    .3 ppm on your well isn't bad at all for a well, but as water evaporates, the concentration increases, and then your top up additions are at .3ppm, which is the edge of staining, and which will not dilute you to below staining..

    So, under regular conditions, if you got a lot of rain and used metal sequestrant religiously, you would and will eventually be okay. But with the plaster out gassing as mentioned, you'd be safer to consider a 50/50 if not full all-truck fill. That might get you low enough to stay well under the stain barrier during curing.

    I know trucked water seems especially expensive in NJ, and at 30 k gal, you need a lot --here in Mich I can get 12k gal for $500 a load but i think I saw on a site somewhere that that's comparatively cheap.

    At any rate, I understand completely the resistance to trucking in the water, but in truth, if you don't truck in some you could probably spend the equivalent of at least one load down the road on stain treatment and management. Ask me how I know hi ho.
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    Re: New plaster - fill with well water?

    I spent some time talking to different water delivery companies yesterday. Since the water treatment plant near me is closed for maintenance the rates are up, big time. It is over $500 per 6500 gal, one guy was $600. Never thought the refill would be my biggest head ache.

    Pentair makes a cartridge for my 20 inch filter housing coming out of the well, Pentair RFFE20-BB. At 0.5 PPM it says it will filter 160,000 gallons, and is designed to reduce dissolved iron concentrations as high as 3 ppm. That sounds like it would reduce the iron enough to do the trick for me with a sediment filter after it. Thoughts?

    Thanks all. When I am done with this and the pool is full I'll pour a cold one out of all of you and good suggestions/info.
    30K gal IG w/ hot tub
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    Re: New plaster - fill with well water?

    Wow, that's more than twice as much as my 12,000-gallon load...and a tiny truck. Tell them to get a tanker so they can make their water cheaper

    Okay, time to get creative, since there's cold beverages at stake.

    Lets say after your well filter we add a dual, replaceable set of 5 micron and 1 micron filters like the ones I will link you to in a minute. Might be overkill, but you could also add this 1 micron polishing filter with a return fitting on a return (The Slime Bag | The Easiest Way To Maintain Crystal Clear Pool Water. )

    Be sure to also add a start up dose of sequestrant. If you're saltwater, use either Jacks Purple or Jacks Magenta. Note that if you use Jacks magenta, it is incompatible with things like the polyquat 60 algaecide we recommend here and will cloud if used together.

    Whether salt or not, the Jacks Magenta is meant specifically for plaster start ups. It sequesters metal, but also helps carry out plaster dust.

    Another option, if not salt, and if you don't want to use the Magenta because one day you might want to use polyquat (eg it is used in a stain removal process called AA treatment) then use Metal Magic, which is easier to use at a higher ph.

    Realize, of course, that I can't warrant my experimental advice here, so please assess your own comfort level in terms of risk. A $3,000 water bill would motivate me to endure a little more risk, but its yours to take, not mine

    At any rate, pre filtering, in-pool polishing, and sequestering together may all be useful management strategies, and for the comparatively small investment, are likely good things to have around when on well.

    Here's a link to housing for a 5 micron filter (filter sold separately.) then connect that one to a smaller housing for a 1 micron filter:
    Pentek 150469 3/4 Scientific

    That should get you started on the pre filtering idea

    Ps you could skip the second, smaller filter housing and use this large 1 mcron filter for the big blue housing since the water is already getting filtered once: One Big Blue Sediment Filter Housing 1 Micron - 4.5 - - Amazon.com
    In ground extended Grecian, 22,000 gal, Hayward 220t sand filter, vinyl liner, dolphin m4 supreme.
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    Re: New plaster - fill with well water?

    Swampwoman, THANKS! I am working out the details and will update. So far some trucked in and the rest with a 3-stage filter looks like the solution (three Big Blue 20-inch filters in a series. Sediment - Iron- Sediment ).

    What a headache!
    30K gal IG w/ hot tub
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    Re: New plaster - fill with well water?

    After too many hours of trying to figure out this problem we solved it, and the most inexpensive way possible. We strung a bunch of hoses together to reach a neighbors house that has good city water. Will cost us $175 ish in water vs all the other options that would have been well above a grand. Now just slide my neighbor cash and bottle of wine. Also, sewer is a flat rate so no effect on price there.

    Thanks all for the help. Were filling now!
    30K gal IG w/ hot tub
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    JoyfulNoise's Avatar
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    Re: New plaster - fill with well water?

    Some water utilities will credit back the sewerage fee for pool water fill. You should check into that.

    Good luck with the fill.
    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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