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Thread: 1st full season with pool - green - advice please

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    1st full season with pool - green - advice please

    Hi all: I just learned about this site from the Bogleheads forum. I am new to pool ownership. We bought the house last summer and enjoyed a pristine pool, with periodic shock applications, throughout the season. Some basic information:

    Pool: 16, 700 gallons, unprinted vinyl, sports type.
    Filter: Hayward Pro Series High-Rate Sand Filter, model S220T

    When the pool guy closed the pool last Fall, it was in great shape, crystal clear. We covered it with a tarp. Over the winter, with snow and rain, the tarp slowly filled up with water and leaves from surrounding trees. A few weeks back I made the mistake of trying to pull the tarp away from the pool by myself and many leaves infiltrated the pool water. The pool guys came back, removed the tarp and got the pool started. It was very green, with all sorts of water bug critters enjoying it. After running the filter for approximately 50 hours, I had the water tested with the following results:

    Saturation index: -0.6
    TDS: 400
    CYA: 0
    Total Chlorine: 0
    Free Chlorine: 0
    PH: 7.2
    Total Alkalinity: 62
    Adjusted total alkalinity: 62
    Total Hardness: 179
    Iron: 0
    Quat: 4

    Recommendations from the analysis, with a schedule and order of application: Add 23.5 ibs of Balance Pak 100(alkalinity), Add 1.5 ills of Low n Slo (PH), Add 5 lbs of Stabilizer 100 (CYA), Add 3 bags of burnout 3.

    I just finished adding the last application of Balance Pak 100, and will move on to the next steps today. I also have chlorine discs in the chlorine feeder and that is set on full.

    Before adding chemicals, I attempted to remove as many leaves as possible, but because the water is so green I can't see to accurately scoop what might be lurking at the bottom. I think I have removed most of the debris. When I move a brush around on the bottom I don't see leaves welling up. But I'm not confident that there isn't a lot of organic matter on bottom that will eat up my chlorine. So far the pool is still quite green.

    Some questions: To cover the pool for the winter, are those netting covers preferred over tarps? They are expensive, but if that solves my leaf troubles it might be worth the $1500 or so I hear they cost. At this point, do you recommend that I just go ahead with adding my chemicals, then retest after 5 days or so? As I say, the pool is still very green, with no discernible change in color since I've been rehabbing it. If there might be lots of organic matter in the pool, should I do something to heavily shock the water so I can see to scoop out what remains? Should I run the filter continuously throughout this process? How often should I backwash?

    Thank you for taking the time to read this and for any advice you have. This is a great site.

    Dead Waters

    In-ground, 16,700 gallons, un-printed vinyl, Hayward Pro Series High-Rate Sand Filter S220T, Hayward High Performance Tri-star pump: 1 hp, 1.85 SF, 1.85 THP

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    AimeeH's Avatar
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    Re: 1st full season with pool - green - advice please

    HI, welcome to TFP

    you need to SLAM your pool to get it clear.......Shock Level And Maintain. To complete that process you will need to purchase a good water test kit such as the k-2006 or a TF-100. Our advice will not match the pool store advice as we advocate testing your own water and solving problems with only what your pool needs, basically just bleach baking soda and borax. Below are some links to good reading in pool school to help you decide which route you want to take. To mix our advice with the pool stores advice will likely leave you confused.

    If you choose to take control of your pool with a good test kit, there will be many members here to answer questions.

    Pool School - ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry
    Pool School - Test Kits Compared

    Pool School - SLAM - Shock Level And Maintain
    18*36*23 true "L" vinyl IG 29,000 gallons. SWG. TF-100 test kit.
    http://tftestkits.net/splash-page.html

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: 1st full season with pool - green - advice please

    Welcome to TFP!

    +1 to ordering a good test kit. I buy my TF100 from TFTestkits.net. You will need the XL option for a SLAM. Add a jug of bleach daily until you get the kit. And keep brushing and scooping.

    One more link in Pool School, Pool School - Getting Started

    I don't close my pool so I can't help with the best process or cover but maybe this will help, Pool School - Closing an In Ground Pool
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    Re: 1st full season with pool - green - advice please

    Thanks for the replies. I will get a test kit! So in the meantime - just add a jug of bleach each day. That I can do. Thank you so much.

    Dead
    In-ground, 16,700 gallons, un-printed vinyl, Hayward Pro Series High-Rate Sand Filter S220T, Hayward High Performance Tri-star pump: 1 hp, 1.85 SF, 1.85 THP, TF 100 XL / Speed Stir

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: 1st full season with pool - green - advice please

    We'll start you off easy!
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    Re: 1st full season with pool - green - advice please

    OK, so I've been adding 121 oz of 8.25% bleach to my pool each evening since 6/1/16 - 10 days of shocking. I've managed to bring the pool from a dark impenetrable green to quite clear and have removed all organic matter. The water is only slightly hazy now. Thanks for your advice. I'm definitely on the right track here. I waited to test until the pool was at its present state. I have the TF100 XL kit and got the following results:

    1. Added R 0870 powder and the solution turned just slightly pink
    2. fc = .05
    3. cc = .05
    4. cc + fc = .1
    5. TA = 160 (Pool math directions are to add acid. Does that mean muriatic acid and #8 below will cover that?)
    6. CYA test was clear (Pool math directions are to add 82 oz of stabilizer. What product is that?)
    7. TC = clear
    8. PH = 8.2 (Pool math directions are to add 43 oz of muriatic acid. OK, I can get that at the hardware store.)
    9. Bromine = clear

    Thanks for taking the time to read this. I'll be grateful for any answers and advice you can share.

    Dead
    In-ground, 16,700 gallons, un-printed vinyl, Hayward Pro Series High-Rate Sand Filter S220T, Hayward High Performance Tri-star pump: 1 hp, 1.85 SF, 1.85 THP, TF 100 XL / Speed Stir

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: 1st full season with pool - green - advice please

    Ok, good.

    Add the 30ppm of CYA, aka stabilizer, to the pool. I buy mine at Lowes, it comes in a 4lb jug. Out it in a sock or two or some knee highs and hang it in front of a return or in the skimmer basket. More here on adding CYA and other chems, Pool School - Recommended Pool Chemicals

    Add the muriatic acid, I also get it at Lowes, pay attention to if it is 31.45% or 15%, with the pump running and test PH again in 15-20 minutes. It might still be high, 8.2 is the top of the scale and it could be higher than that. Repeat until it shows up on the scale and then adjust to 7.2.

    And SLAM the pool to kill the algae following this process, SLAM

    Disregard bromine. You aren't using bromine, it uses the same test as chlorine.
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    Re: 1st full season with pool - green - advice please

    Pooldv: Thank you. I will follow your process. You have been very helpful!

    Dead
    In-ground, 16,700 gallons, un-printed vinyl, Hayward Pro Series High-Rate Sand Filter S220T, Hayward High Performance Tri-star pump: 1 hp, 1.85 SF, 1.85 THP, TF 100 XL / Speed Stir

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    Re: 1st full season with pool - green - advice please

    I must admit that, other than your regular household chlorine, I'm not familiar with the chemicals TFP recommends as standard. I can't find any form of CYA. Neither my local local Lowes nor Home Depot carries it. I'll look in my local hardware stores. As to the muriatic acid, I bought a jug, but the label shows no strength rating. The brand is Kleen Strip (90% lower fumes than standard), no specifying information other than that. Does that sound like a product I should use? I'm hesitant to pour it into my pool without some assurance that it will not do damage to the pool or humans that might take a dip at some point. Should I wait to have both the CYA and muriatic acid and add them together, or can I add just the muriatic acid and later the CYA when I find it? I plan to keep adding a jug of daily chlorine until I add any further chems. Thanks for reading this and any advice you have.

    Dead
    In-ground, 16,700 gallons, un-printed vinyl, Hayward Pro Series High-Rate Sand Filter S220T, Hayward High Performance Tri-star pump: 1 hp, 1.85 SF, 1.85 THP, TF 100 XL / Speed Stir

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    Re: 1st full season with pool - green - advice please

    Do you have a Walmart or KMart in your area? CYA can also be labeled stabilizer.
    26' X 52" Intex Ultra Frame. Intex Sand Filter
    26' X 52 Intex Ultra Frame Install
    You can lead a horse to (clear) water, but you can't force him to swim in it!

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    Re: 1st full season with pool - green - advice please

    Walmart near the house doesn't carry CYA. I'm checking the Walmart and Kmart near work tonight. Thanks!

    Dead
    In-ground, 16,700 gallons, un-printed vinyl, Hayward Pro Series High-Rate Sand Filter S220T, Hayward High Performance Tri-star pump: 1 hp, 1.85 SF, 1.85 THP, TF 100 XL / Speed Stir

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    Re: 1st full season with pool - green - advice please

    You can buy stabilizer from the pool store, just don't let them sell you anything else.
    25000 gallon free-form gunite
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    Re: 1st full season with pool - green - advice please

    Quote Originally Posted by Dead Waters View Post
    I must admit that, other than your regular household chlorine, I'm not familiar with the chemicals TFP recommends as standard. I can't find any form of CYA. Neither my local local Lowes nor Home Depot carries it. I'll look in my local hardware stores. As to the muriatic acid, I bought a jug, but the label shows no strength rating. The brand is Kleen Strip (90% lower fumes than standard), no specifying information other than that. Does that sound like a product I should use? I'm hesitant to pour it into my pool without some assurance that it will not do damage to the pool or humans that might take a dip at some point. Should I wait to have both the CYA and muriatic acid and add them together, or can I add just the muriatic acid and later the CYA when I find it? I plan to keep adding a jug of daily chlorine until I add any further chems. Thanks for reading this and any advice you have.

    Dead

    The muriatic acid you have is 20%. I know pool math doesnt have a 20% option (at least i didnt see it) That is all I can get anymore also. What Ive been doing is getting the amount from pool math for the 15% acid and cutting it back just a touch. So if it calls for 48 ounces I will add only 40 and retest and hour later. As for stabilizer any big box store that has a pool section should carry it. I know around here the local walmart has been sold out of it for a while so you might have to hunt a bit for it.
    Intex AG metal frame vinyl sides 10,400 gal. 3000 gph intex pump with 16" sand filter
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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: 1st full season with pool - green - advice please

    The low fume muriatic acid is 15%. It is fine to use. It may also be labeled hydrochloric acid. My Lowes has full strength 31.45% and 15% in the paint department for the same price and 31.45% in the pool section near the garden section.

    CYA is cyanuric acid and is called Stabilizer at Lowes.
    This, Shop Clorox PoolSpa 4-lb Stabilizer Pool Balancer at Lowes.com
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    Mod Squad kimkats's Avatar
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    Re: 1st full season with pool - green - advice please

    pool stabilizer chemicals - Walmart.com

    There are a couple that say they are at a Walmart kind of near you. I just wanted to you see what they look like. They say it is in the store.

    The MA you found is the low fume kind. It is not the full strength kind. It will work but will take more to do the job.

    Keep asking questions to make sure you REALLY understand what and why you are doing these things.

    Kim
    TFP Moderator 33x52 round AG 25,600 gals Sand Filter 1.5hp Pump - 2 Speed, SLAM, Pool School, Recommended Levels, Recommended Chemicals, Pool Math, Chlorine/CYA Chart, TF-100 Test Kit

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    Re: 1st full season with pool - green - advice please

    Thanks for the advice everyone. It's very helpful. Will keep at it......... Even now, though, the pool looks great from following your advice. Thanks pooldv .....

    Dead
    In-ground, 16,700 gallons, un-printed vinyl, Hayward Pro Series High-Rate Sand Filter S220T, Hayward High Performance Tri-star pump: 1 hp, 1.85 SF, 1.85 THP, TF 100 XL / Speed Stir

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    Re: 1st full season with pool - green - advice please

    OK - I'm back with some more numbers:

    FC = 4.5
    CC = .5
    TC = 5
    CYA = 20
    PH = 7.5
    TA = 110
    CH = 300

    Pool math indicates I need 45 oz of stabilizer. I'll go ahead and do that tonight.
    My Ch seems high? Pool math says add 13% new water. Is that really necessary with my vinyl pool??

    Thanks for any advice!

    Dead
    In-ground, 16,700 gallons, un-printed vinyl, Hayward Pro Series High-Rate Sand Filter S220T, Hayward High Performance Tri-star pump: 1 hp, 1.85 SF, 1.85 THP, TF 100 XL / Speed Stir

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    Re: 1st full season with pool - green - advice please

    Nope, no need to worry about CH in a vinyl pool outside insane levels.
    32K gallon Plaster - 1hp Hayward 2 speed Super Pump - Hayward S200 Sand Filter - TF100XL
    Test Kits - Pool Math - Chlorine/CYA/Target/Slam Chart

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