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Thread: Back of replacement impeller rubbing against housing - safe to use?

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    Onslow's Avatar
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    Back of replacement impeller rubbing against housing - safe to use?

    I am currently reassembling pump to replace a broken impeller. This is in reference to an earlier thread but I'm starting a new one as some time has passed.

    I'm putting the impeller on (this is the nicer 1.5 hp one that has a brass stem) and it feels like the back is rubbing against the housing. Is that normal? Afraid to fire it up at this point.

    Thanks!
    * 18' x 33' - 48" oval AGP - new liner Summer 2014
    * Hayward Pro Series S210T Top Mount Sand Filter
    * Hayward Power-Flo Matrix 1 1/2 hp Pump Model SP5615
    (equipment on posts prior to summer 2014) Hayward PowerFlo 1 hp pump - Jacuzzi "Tidewater" 190L, sand filter

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    Onslow's Avatar
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    Re: Back of replacement impeller rubbing against housing - safe to use?

    A follow-up.

    Notsomuch an issue of "if" as "will" and the answer to "will" is NO. The 1.5hp impeller doesn't even spin during test. Just a hum.

    Confirmed with online parts vendor that the right impeller and seal /spring kit was ordered. Will escalate with Hayward and see if I need to drop back to the 3/4 hp sized impeller it originally came with.

    Has anyone ever tried using a washer as a shim for this sort of issue? Any reason it wouldn't work?

    Thanks again.
    * 18' x 33' - 48" oval AGP - new liner Summer 2014
    * Hayward Pro Series S210T Top Mount Sand Filter
    * Hayward Power-Flo Matrix 1 1/2 hp Pump Model SP5615
    (equipment on posts prior to summer 2014) Hayward PowerFlo 1 hp pump - Jacuzzi "Tidewater" 190L, sand filter

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    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: Back of replacement impeller rubbing against housing - safe to use?

    Did you put the seal in the correct direction? If backwards, can seize the motor.

    Have you tried to run the motor without the wet end attached to see if it spins? Could be other interference.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Onslow's Avatar
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    Re: Back of replacement impeller rubbing against housing - safe to use?

    Quote Originally Posted by mas985 View Post
    Did you put the seal in the correct direction? If backwards, can seize the motor.

    Have you tried to run the motor without the wet end attached to see if it spins? Could be other interference.
    Good questions. I put the seals together as best as I could based on the removal of the older one.

    This means the two really flat ceramic (?) disks are facing each other in the middle. The rubber-bottomed seal is the piece closest to the motor. The spring, with the silver ring side closest to the impeller, is on top.

    I will try the motor with the impeller removed. If seized, will test with all seal rings removed. Thanks for your reply!
    * 18' x 33' - 48" oval AGP - new liner Summer 2014
    * Hayward Pro Series S210T Top Mount Sand Filter
    * Hayward Power-Flo Matrix 1 1/2 hp Pump Model SP5615
    (equipment on posts prior to summer 2014) Hayward PowerFlo 1 hp pump - Jacuzzi "Tidewater" 190L, sand filter

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    Re: Back of replacement impeller rubbing against housing - safe to use?

    You typically can't upsize an impeller without upsizing the motor. The correct size impeller should have been the original one. Upsizing will usually overload the motor.

    It could be that the new impeller does not fit this pump. It might be too big. It might be rubbing against the seal plate or the diffuser.

    You should get the same impeller that the pump came with.

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    Onslow's Avatar
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    Re: Back of replacement impeller rubbing against housing - safe to use?

    Quote Originally Posted by JamesW View Post
    You should get the same impeller that the pump came with.
    Agreed. This is a really weird model that comes with 1.5hp motor but a 3/4 hp impeller. The parts diagram indicates that either a 3/4 or 1hp impeller can be used. I'll see if I can locate a 3/4 impeller tomorrow and stick to the original part!

    After-post edit FYI: Motor works fine without impeller attached.
    * 18' x 33' - 48" oval AGP - new liner Summer 2014
    * Hayward Pro Series S210T Top Mount Sand Filter
    * Hayward Power-Flo Matrix 1 1/2 hp Pump Model SP5615
    (equipment on posts prior to summer 2014) Hayward PowerFlo 1 hp pump - Jacuzzi "Tidewater" 190L, sand filter

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    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: Back of replacement impeller rubbing against housing - safe to use?

    If it doesn't work with the impeller attached but without the wet end it has nothing to do with impeller size. The only time the impeller size makes a difference is when the pump is pumping water.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: Back of replacement impeller rubbing against housing - safe to use?

    If it's the wrong impeller, it might rub against the seal plate. Meaning the impeller does not even go to the pump.

    Sometimes a larger impeller requires a different diffuser. So, even if the impeller goes to the pump, it might require a different diffuser.

    In any case, you generally can't upsize an impeller without replacing the motor.

    The original part number on the impeller was sp1591f. Can you get that?

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    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: Back of replacement impeller rubbing against housing - safe to use?

    I agree that the impeller should not be larger than the motor and if the motor is rated SPL then a 1 HP would be too large.

    However, the Matrix does not use a diffuser and the impeller he used should not be rubbing because it is for that model pump:

    Hayward Powerflo Pump Impeller 1.0 Hp - SPX1500L
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: Back of replacement impeller rubbing against housing - safe to use?

    https://www.hayward-pool.com/pdf/man...-IS5700-HC.pdf

    The original impeller part number was sp1591f. The only parts diagram that I can find that has that impeller is the Hayward Turbo Flo II. The impeller is listed as a 1.5 hp impeller.

    Probably best to get the exact same impeller or contact Hayward to confirm compatibility.

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    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: Back of replacement impeller rubbing against housing - safe to use?

    Can you post a picture of the pump? Perhaps you really don't have a Matrix. The part # in your sig is for a motor support and not the pump itself.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: Back of replacement impeller rubbing against housing - safe to use?

    1.5 HP MATRIX W/BASE | Hayward Canada

    I think that part of the problem is that Hayward makes the same or similar pumps under multiple names which can cause confusion.

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    Onslow's Avatar
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    Re: Back of replacement impeller rubbing against housing - safe to use?

    This is a very unusual model. I bought it from poolsupplies.com (dba as Leisure Living) as part of a Hayward bundle. I now believe it is a Canadian-specific model.

    Invoice identifies the pump as "POWER-FLO MATRIX 1-1/2 HP PUMP SP1593 (SP5615)" However a lookup of SP1593 does not show the motor casing/shell that allows the output tobe adjusted from vertical to horizontal by a 90 degree shift.

    The serial number/model sticker reads SP5615 and then the serial number.

    This sticker is on an outer plastic shell that covers the entire motor. There is a removable back cover/cap which has a lot of the electrical wiring. To access the flathead screw in the back (for securing removal/installation of impeller), a lot of disconnecting of wires and removal of small tensioned springs (which I've now gotten kind of good at) is required.

    It looks exactly like this one

    matrix.jpg

    Mine currently looks like this

    matrix1.jpg

    I'm hoping the SPX1500F is a US equivalent of the sp1591f
    * 18' x 33' - 48" oval AGP - new liner Summer 2014
    * Hayward Pro Series S210T Top Mount Sand Filter
    * Hayward Power-Flo Matrix 1 1/2 hp Pump Model SP5615
    (equipment on posts prior to summer 2014) Hayward PowerFlo 1 hp pump - Jacuzzi "Tidewater" 190L, sand filter

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    Onslow's Avatar
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    Re: Back of replacement impeller rubbing against housing - safe to use?

    Quote Originally Posted by JamesW View Post
    Probably best to get the exact same impeller...
    Wise words! This would have taken care of this a lot earlier! Unfortunately I was not comfortable with ordering a near-$50 part from Canada that has a no-return policy (that plus a lot of folks were telling me another part number was exactly the same). Below is my closure on another thread:

    A post-mortem to this thread:

    <rant>
    Cut to the chase: If you happen to have this pump (SP5615) do NOT order SPX1500L or SPX1500F as an impeller replacement. Yes, it is a Power-Flo Matrix. No it is not the American version (even though it was bought from a company out of Buffalo, NY).

    It requires the SPX1591F (just like the picture at top of this thread). This is a Canadian-sourced item. The stem is at least .5" longer than the SPX1500x impellers. It took me a while to locate this. You will have to order this from Canada online shop that has a "no returns on parts" policy and it will be a little pricey but...

    Again despite what some may say SPX1500x are not identical replacements for SPX1591F impellers (why would they be?). Also, do not be surprised if Hayward and the reseller tell you this impeller is not compatible with the pump.
    </rant>
    * 18' x 33' - 48" oval AGP - new liner Summer 2014
    * Hayward Pro Series S210T Top Mount Sand Filter
    * Hayward Power-Flo Matrix 1 1/2 hp Pump Model SP5615
    (equipment on posts prior to summer 2014) Hayward PowerFlo 1 hp pump - Jacuzzi "Tidewater" 190L, sand filter

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