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Thread: 1st Results on Brand New Pool! BLUF: High pH, High TA

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    1st Results on Brand New Pool! BLUF: High pH, High TA

    We were told by our pool builder that our brand new pool is "swimmable" this weekend! I figured I better check the water chemical conditions first. Results with my new TF-100:

    FC: 4.0
    CC: 0.0
    pH: 8.2 (possibly off the scale)
    TA: 400 ?!?!?! I did this test twice. The fill water was from a public well.
    CH: 400
    CYA: 0 (yeah, 0!)
    Salt: 3400

    Obviously he never put the CYA in, so that's a problem there. I plan to contact him today about that. I know I'll be battling dropping FC as the pool is in direct sun. The SWG is currently set to 50%.

    pH is pretty high. It might be 8.2, it might be off the chart. I ran to HD and Lowes and found 31.45% muriatic acid $8/gallon. I bought 4. Pool Math says I need 165 oz to get to 7.5.

    I realize my TA is silly high so I need to battle that eventually. Right now I'm just concentrating on making the pool usable for the holiday weekend. I poured in 1 gallon (128 oz) of the acid and I plan to retest in a few hours to see what effect that had. I'm hoping it will bring me onto the color scale so I can fine tune from there?

    ac
    20K gal, IG Fiberglass "Lifetime Pittsburgh", 1 1/2 HP TriStar pump, 525 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPlus T-15 SWG, Dolphin Oasis z5 Robot

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    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: 1st Results on Brand New Pool! BLUF: High pH, High TA

    4 FC with zero CYA is pretty harsh. But as you say... it won't last long in full sun.

    You're doing the right technique for the pH. Just plug in your readings and add the correct amount of acid. Keep repeating it until the color shifts into the range of the test block. As a related side topic, very often the R-009 TA reagent develops static electricity especially if it's new. That will make smaller drops and therefore falsely high TA readings. The cure is to wipe the tip with a damp paper towel between drops.

    Lowes sells Cyanuric Acid in the pool section. I'd add it myself and tell the builder to beat it.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: 1st Results on Brand New Pool! BLUF: High pH, High TA

    Definitely get 30 ppm of CYA going in the pool. In a sock, more here, Pool School - Recommended Pool Chemicals, squeeze the sock a lot to get it dissolved quickly.

    Put 8.2 in Now and 7.6 in Target for PH, along with your other numbers, and add that amount of muriatic acid with pump running, brush and retest in 15 minutes, repeat until PH is 7.6. Then keep it at 7.8 or lower.

    It is safe to swim when
    chlorine is above minimum and below shock level for your CYA, Chlorine CYA Chart
    PH is 7.2 to 7.8
    water is clear
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    Re: 1st Results on Brand New Pool! BLUF: High pH, High TA

    You';ve got some tuning to do but you are swimmable right now. I would encourage you to do CYA as described above, that provide a nice buffer so you chlorine will be not harsh at all.

    Good work, so far......keep it up
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
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    Re: 1st Results on Brand New Pool! BLUF: High pH, High TA

    Quote Originally Posted by duraleigh View Post
    You';ve got some tuning to do but you are swimmable right now. I would encourage you to do CYA as described above, that provide a nice buffer so you chlorine will be not harsh at all.

    Good work, so far......keep it up
    Well, we don't have a patio yet so right now my "patio" is a few scraps of carpet we had lying around in the basement. By Tuesday the pool will be completely un-swimmable as they work to install coping and pavers and pretty much make a huge mess. I'm not worried about "long term" yet, just what it takes to get going for today-Monday.

    I'm hesitant to add CYA as I don't want the PB to overshoot when he "opens" the pool officially. I've learned around here to NOT trust anyone! LOL

    After 1 gallon of muriatic my pH is now 7.5.

    I think I'm going to call it "good" for now and check pH and FC again this evening and twice daily through Monday.

    ac
    20K gal, IG Fiberglass "Lifetime Pittsburgh", 1 1/2 HP TriStar pump, 525 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPlus T-15 SWG, Dolphin Oasis z5 Robot

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    Re: 1st Results on Brand New Pool! BLUF: High pH, High TA

    We swam today and the kids and pooch had a great time!

    Did a quick pH and Cl test:

    FC: 0.5
    pH: 7.5

    I think the pH will work for this weekend so I don't plan to do anything with that. FC was low, but that was expected with the lack of CYA. I turned the SWG up from 50% to 60% for tomorrow and will check FC again tomorrow morning and evening.

    I'm also starting to think I did the TA test improperly. I was adding the final reagent until I saw no further color change, but most of the videos I am finding on youtube show stopping immediately once the solution has a distinct color change. Which is proper?

    ac
    20K gal, IG Fiberglass "Lifetime Pittsburgh", 1 1/2 HP TriStar pump, 525 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPlus T-15 SWG, Dolphin Oasis z5 Robot

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    Re: 1st Results on Brand New Pool! BLUF: High pH, High TA

    Quote Originally Posted by avc8130 View Post
    We swam today and the kids and pooch had a great time!

    Did a quick pH and Cl test:

    FC: 0.5
    pH: 7.5

    I think the pH will work for this weekend so I don't plan to do anything with that. FC was low, but that was expected with the lack of CYA. I turned the SWG up from 50% to 60% for tomorrow and will check FC again tomorrow morning and evening.

    I'm also starting to think I did the TA test improperly. I was adding the final reagent until I saw no further color change, but most of the videos I am finding on youtube show stopping immediately once the solution has a distinct color change. Which is proper?

    ac
    You are.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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    Re: 1st Results on Brand New Pool! BLUF: High pH, High TA

    Test results from this morning:

    FC: 0.5 (there is definitely SOME Cl as the indicator definitely goes yellow, but we are clearly struggling without the CYA)
    pH: 7.8

    Clearly the pH is rising quickly, I assume due to the really high TA? My understanding is that adding acid to bring the pH down will eventually lower the TA?

    It's still swimmable so I plan to leave it until I test again this evening.

    Pump is on with SWG set to 75%.

    Water is crystal clear, I can see every spec of dirt being dragged in by my Yellow Lab since we have no patio. LOL

    ac
    20K gal, IG Fiberglass "Lifetime Pittsburgh", 1 1/2 HP TriStar pump, 525 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPlus T-15 SWG, Dolphin Oasis z5 Robot

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    Re: 1st Results on Brand New Pool! BLUF: High pH, High TA

    Quote Originally Posted by avc8130 View Post
    Test results from this morning:

    FC: 0.5 (there is definitely SOME Cl as the indicator definitely goes yellow, but we are clearly struggling without the CYA)
    pH: 7.8

    Clearly the pH is rising quickly, I assume due to the really high TA? My understanding is that adding acid to bring the pH down will eventually lower the TA?

    It's still swimmable so I plan to leave it until I test again this evening.

    Pump is on with SWG set to 75%.

    Water is crystal clear, I can see every spec of dirt being dragged in by my Yellow Lab since we have no patio. LOL

    ac
    You are correct about lowering pH also lowering TA. "Swimmable" is questionable. The FC level is too low now to kill any bacteria or viruses.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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    Re: 1st Results on Brand New Pool! BLUF: High pH, High TA

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard320 View Post
    You are correct about lowering pH also lowering TA. "Swimmable" is questionable. The FC level is too low now to kill any bacteria or viruses.
    What is the appropriate level for 0 cya? I'll go hit super chlorinate on the swg.
    20K gal, IG Fiberglass "Lifetime Pittsburgh", 1 1/2 HP TriStar pump, 525 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPlus T-15 SWG, Dolphin Oasis z5 Robot

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    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: 1st Results on Brand New Pool! BLUF: High pH, High TA

    Quote Originally Posted by avc8130 View Post
    What is the appropriate level for 0 cya? I'll go hit super chlorinate on the swg.
    Minimum of 1, maximum of 3
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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    Re: 1st Results on Brand New Pool! BLUF: High pH, High TA

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard320 View Post
    Minimum of 1, maximum of 3
    Got it.

    It's definitely interesting trying to balance pump run times and swg percentage already. Hopefully that gets easier once we have some cya.

    I think I'll set the pump to run all day while it's sunny and the fc is being attacked by the sun.

    AC
    20K gal, IG Fiberglass "Lifetime Pittsburgh", 1 1/2 HP TriStar pump, 525 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPlus T-15 SWG, Dolphin Oasis z5 Robot

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    Re: 1st Results on Brand New Pool! BLUF: High pH, High TA

    Had 4 adults and my 2 kids in the pool for a few hours this afternoon. Had the pump on all day with the SWG set to 75%.

    FC: 1.5
    pH: 8.0

    I put another gallon of muriatic acid in this evening to bring that pH back in check for tomorrow.

    ac
    20K gal, IG Fiberglass "Lifetime Pittsburgh", 1 1/2 HP TriStar pump, 525 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPlus T-15 SWG, Dolphin Oasis z5 Robot

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    Re: 1st Results on Brand New Pool! BLUF: High pH, High TA

    That gallon of muriatic brought me right down to 7.2. It's very clear to me that TA needs to come down or I might as well buy stock in Jasco!
    20K gal, IG Fiberglass "Lifetime Pittsburgh", 1 1/2 HP TriStar pump, 525 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPlus T-15 SWG, Dolphin Oasis z5 Robot

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: 1st Results on Brand New Pool! BLUF: High pH, High TA

    Not a bad idea here is how, Pool School - Lower Total Alkalinity
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    Re: 1st Results on Brand New Pool! BLUF: High pH, High TA

    Might want to use some liquid chlorine as a supplement to get the FC up to normal levels. I think I have read that the SWG usually have issues with getting the startup numbers high enough. I know that my Intellichlor instructions said to have the FC already at optimal level before starting to use it.
    Matt
    2016 Pool Build: 12k IG Blue Granite Pebblesheen, Travertine Coping & Pavers, Pentair IntelliFlo, Intellichlor, Easytouch, Clean & Clear 320, Heliocol Solar - TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
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    Re: 1st Results on Brand New Pool! BLUF: High pH, High TA

    Quote Originally Posted by mgmoore7 View Post
    Might want to use some liquid chlorine as a supplement to get the FC up to normal levels. I think I have read that the SWG usually have issues with getting the startup numbers high enough. I know that my Intellichlor instructions said to have the FC already at optimal level before starting to use it.
    Well I'm turning it back over to the PB for the week. The efforts this passed weekend were just to be swimming for Memorial Day. The pool will be a disaster zone for the next week + as they work coping and pavers. I'm curious to see how he "trains" me to run the pool. You know I'll be following advice here either way!

    ac
    20K gal, IG Fiberglass "Lifetime Pittsburgh", 1 1/2 HP TriStar pump, 525 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPlus T-15 SWG, Dolphin Oasis z5 Robot

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