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Thread: So beyond frustrated...ready to fill it in with a nice garden - metal stains.

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    So beyond frustrated...ready to fill it in with a nice garden - metal stains.

    I am so beyond frustrated with this pool. Last year we started getting unsightly stains on our white gunite pool. They got worse all summer. The man who opens and closes are pool explained it was metal stains and that we would need to do the treatment when our pool was closed and our chlorine was zero. So, in March, we got Absorbic Acid and did the treatment. Worked like a charm! It was the brightest, whitest pool you have ever seen. He explained we had to slowly bring our chlorine level up. So for a month we did and then we went to the pool store with a sample of water to get our other levels checked out. We were instructed to shock our pool and add some calcium. We shocked the pool and within an hour it was a swamp. I called the pool guy who was explained I was given horrible advice and how to treat it. We spent three days adding metal eliminator to the pool, with cellulose in our filter, and ran the filter 24 hours a day until the water was pretty again. We ended up with 3 or 4 stains but nothing earth shattering. However, something we added (the shock, the eliminator,????) sent our CYA off the charts and we couldn't hold chlorine.

    That's when I found these boards.

    For three weeks the moderators of this board directed me in nursing my pool back to health which included two partial drains (40% the first time and more than 50% the second time); SLAMing the pool for 3 days because I kept failing the OCLT; and using half of a season's worth of chemicals and testing supplies. FINALLY, we consistently got excellent levels and for about a week we have seen what the Trouble Free Pool experience is really like...add about 30 ounces of LC each night and that's it...HEAVEN.

    And then we pulled the solar cover back off the pool yesterday.

    The metal stain is E V E R Y W H E R E again. It is once again covering the entire pool and looks horrible. The only thing I can figure is that we were using the CuLator, which we purchased about a month ago, and it stopped trapping the metals.

    So basically the last 3 months of work was all for nothing.

    We have no idea where the metal is coming from or what to do about it. The pool used to have a heater (before we owned the house) but it was removed before we purchased the house two years ago. Here is our Annual Water Report where copper was last tested in 2014.

    My main question is...can we do anything about the stain for the summer or do we have to wait until the season is over and try again?
    14.5'x32' irregular shape Pebble Tec SWG pool; 12,000 gal; Purex Triton Tagelus Sand Filter; Pentair IntelliPh Ph Controller

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    Re: So beyond frustrated...ready to fill it in with a nice garden - metal stains.

    What water did you use to refill? I've been dealing with the same thing. Clear up with ascorbic acid and sequestrant, have a nice clear pool for a week, slowly bring chlorine back up, but then I start to get the brown/yellow staining. It's a vicious cycle. Then repeat. I think it's because I use my well water to fill the pool. I'm convinced now the only way to solve is to pay the thousand dollars to get clean water trucked in.

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    Re: So beyond frustrated...ready to fill it in with a nice garden - metal stains.

    We don't have well water. We use county water. I am not sure what acceptable levels are considered but I included the annual water report in my OP.
    14.5'x32' irregular shape Pebble Tec SWG pool; 12,000 gal; Purex Triton Tagelus Sand Filter; Pentair IntelliPh Ph Controller

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    Texas Splash's Avatar
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    Re: So beyond frustrated...ready to fill it in with a nice garden - metal stains.

    Copper at/above .3 and iron at/above .4 tend to result in staining. Still, some city/county water sources manage to get metals in their water, it's not always just wells.
    Pat (a.k.a. Texas Splash) ~ My Pool: Viking Fiberglass; 17,888 Gal; Waterway Supreme 2-sp/2-hp pump; Hayward Ctg filter; TF-100 w/ Speed Stir
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    Swampwoman's Avatar
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    Re: So beyond frustrated...ready to fill it in with a nice garden - metal stains.

    Kiki, sorry you're not yet getting the full enjoyment of a trouble free pool, but we'll get you there.

    What I want to make sure you understand is that metal sequestrant wears off - slowly with normal chlorine, very fast in shock/slam. Secondly, high ph also can cause metals to stain. So try keeping your ph around 7.2 - 7.4 to help.

    Sequestrants hold the metal in solution but do little to remove them. So you do need to top them up to a maintenance level. Sometimes fresh stains will lift as soon as you add more, even though sequestrants are not designed to be stain removers per se.

    I've had success with Metal Magic in that regard -- so in your shoes I might try switching to that, and using this test to see how much it will take to remove the stain. i like Metal Magic because in addition to being one of the TFT recommended sequestrants, you dont have to lower your ph to add it. It will lower the ph just a little in using it.http://www.proteampoolcare.com/image...SpongeTest.pdf

    IME, culator will not remove all the metal either. I simply didn't have any luck with it.

    I'm on well and have tried lots of things.
    I now use softened water for fill, which helps.

    In your case, you're getting staining even after dumping a lot of water and refilling, so my best guess is you're maybe getting iron blowing in with soil (you're in GA, right, where iron content is high?), and that there are small amounts of same in your municipal water source.

    Maintaining sequestrant and avoiding slamming by keeping your FC:cya in the right proportion should keep you in the clear, but trucking in fresh metal free water is always an option (but an expensive one) to consider.

    Hope that helps give you some ideas!

    Ps - your water report doesn't include an iron reading. I did a quick search and didn't find anything, but did note that the system uses "200 miles of underground iron and concrete pipe"
    In ground extended Grecian, 22,000 gal, Hayward 220t sand filter, vinyl liner, dolphin m4 supreme.
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    smforte's Avatar
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    Re: So beyond frustrated...ready to fill it in with a nice garden - metal stains.

    I feel your pain!! Bought a foreclosure 3 yrs ago. First year, followed pool store advice that included, Algaecides, shock etc. switched over to TFP and the more experienced I became the more I noticed the metal stains. (No one else notices but me) liner and steps have a yellow tint. My experience....ive done 3 AA treatments and the results are amazing. Keeping ph lower at 7.2 and begin slowly raising the FC to minimum level, followed by weekly additions of sequestrant which holds the metals in solution. After a while or more chlorine the metals get released and Re-stain. The trick is consistent addition of sequestrant which gets really expensive for me. I've yet to figure out where the metals came from and I'm battling it until I'm able to replace my liner and a new water change. Btw, certain sequestrants have clouded my pool. The best I've found it Jacks Magic but it gets really expensive. My stains aren't as bad as they used to be so I've decided to just live with them for now.
    Montgomery, AL
    27000 16 x 36 IG, Vinyl, Grecian, Hayward Sand filter, 1 HP Pentair whisperflo motor, Aqua Genie filter not by choice, no extra jets, Dolphin s300i robotic cleaner,Taylor K 2006 test kit, speed-stir which I couldn't live without!

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    Re: So beyond frustrated...ready to fill it in with a nice garden - metal stains.

    Here is my confusion. I have 3 friends with pools as well as a pool in our neighborhood. None of them deal with this issue????

    Also, please don't misunderstand. I am very grateful for Trouble Free Pool and all the support. I am just irritated with MY pool.

    K
    14.5'x32' irregular shape Pebble Tec SWG pool; 12,000 gal; Purex Triton Tagelus Sand Filter; Pentair IntelliPh Ph Controller

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    Re: So beyond frustrated...ready to fill it in with a nice garden - metal stains.

    Has anyone used Leslie's Metal Free? I'm afraid to use any of their products now because of hidden ingredients but I have read that if you get it in the pool ASAP there is a chance of lifting the new stains. I can't get any of the solutions recommended on this site for a week as they are not sold locally and I have to order.

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: So beyond frustrated...ready to fill it in with a nice garden - metal stains.

    If it lists ingredients compare them to ingredients listed here, Pool School - Metals in the Water and Metal Stains
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    Re: So beyond frustrated...ready to fill it in with a nice garden - metal stains.

    Have a sample of your tap water tested for metals. If if comes back negative I would drain and refill the pool. It is possible that something you used in the past contained metals.
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    JoyfulNoise's Avatar
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    Re: So beyond frustrated...ready to fill it in with a nice garden - metal stains.

    Your municipal water supply likely has iron in it. Iron is NOT considered a water contaminant by the EPA and therefore is not required to be tested for or reported in a water quality report. The only way to test for iron is through independent testing. I would suggest you pay for a laboratory to do a full test of your water from the spigot that fills the pool.

    As others have suggested, metal treatment of pool water is not a one time event but an ongoing process. They've given you great advice so far.
    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    Swampwoman's Avatar
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    Re: So beyond frustrated...ready to fill it in with a nice garden - metal stains.

    Has anyone used Leslie's Metal Free? I'm afraid to use any of their products now because of hidden ingredients but I have read that if you get it in the pool ASAP there is a chance of lifting the new stains.
    If by Leslie's Metal Free you mean Natural Chemistry Metal Free that they sell with the stain remover, NO, it is not the kind of HEDP-based sequestrant we mean.

    According to its msds, its active ingredient is citric acid, which acts more like Ascorbic acid. I've seen numerous threads from people who've used this and whose water is not sequestered

    The most effective sequestrants are HEDP -- their msds will say something like "diphosphonic acid." Do you have any other pool store nearby?
    In ground extended Grecian, 22,000 gal, Hayward 220t sand filter, vinyl liner, dolphin m4 supreme.
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