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Thread: Stay the course or is a change in direction necessary

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    Stay the course or is a change in direction necessary

    Been having trouble for a while passing all three criteria, the holy trinity, of the SLAM. (Clear water, CC < .5 and passing the OCLT.)
    Current Numbers:
    FC - 18.6
    CC - .6
    CYA - 40
    I was SLAMMING from about the 25th of April to the 8th of May. Couldn't pass Slam. Decided to let the FC drop to normal levels. Changed to another source for liquid chlorine ( that's another story.) By the 13th FC was normal for CYA of 40 (about 7). Dropped PH to 7.2 and commenced to slamming again on the 13th.
    Since then, maintained FC between 16 and 20. Brushing once a day. The ladder has not been in the pool. I'm keeping any debris out with an Intex over the edge skimmer, hand skimming and vacuuming to waste when necessary. Today I took apart the entire skimmer assembly and found a little "schmutz" under the lip. (See images on lid, on finger and wiped on paper.) Feels slimey/greasy. Cleaned the cover good with soap, water and liquid chlorine. I'll leave it off until tomorrow.

    what to do? Stay the course?

    thanks so much

    image.jpgimage.jpgimage.jpg
    Last edited by Schnozz; 05-27-2016 at 08:16 AM. Reason: Correct spelling
    Bob (AKA Schnozz)
    12 x 24 x 52 Intex Ultra Frame AGP, 8600 Gal; Pentair 2HP/2SP 150sqft Cartridge Filter; Hayward Through Wall Skimmer; Intex Automatic Cleaner (Fantastic); K-2006 Test Kit; Start-up 07/30/2015. First Time Pool Owner in SoCal.

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    cowboycasey's Avatar
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    Re: Stay the course or is a change in direction necessary

    Stay the course

    I think you found what has been keeping your CC up above .5

    You're so close great job, i think you will see your CC go down fast..
    Pool: Intex 16x32 15000 gal, 2 speed 340042, Pentair CC320 Filter, CircuPool SJ45 Salt System, Intermatic PE653RC; Hot Tub: 650 Gal SWG Megachlor
    links: pool school * Recommended-Levels * SLAM * CYA chart * Test kits * How To Post Pictures * Poolmath * OCLT ** Support your website if we helped you :) **

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    JoyfulNoise's Avatar
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    Re: Stay the course or is a change in direction necessary

    Have you ever deep cleaned your sand filter? Backwashing doesn't count as cleaning. TFP recommends an annual deep clean if the sand filter to remove built up grime...you'd be surprised what comes out of a sand filter after a SLAM...
    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    Re: Stay the course or is a change in direction necessary

    Cowboycasey...thanks for the encouragement...
    Joyfulnoise...I've only been up and running about 10 months, but I'll give it a try this weekend just in case.
    Thanks to both for the help....
    Last edited by Schnozz; 05-27-2016 at 08:17 AM. Reason: Correct spelling
    Bob (AKA Schnozz)
    12 x 24 x 52 Intex Ultra Frame AGP, 8600 Gal; Pentair 2HP/2SP 150sqft Cartridge Filter; Hayward Through Wall Skimmer; Intex Automatic Cleaner (Fantastic); K-2006 Test Kit; Start-up 07/30/2015. First Time Pool Owner in SoCal.

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    Mod Squad tim5055's Avatar
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    Re: Stay the course or is a change in direction necessary

    Yup, stay the course. This is where the people who fail, fail. It looks good, but just can't pass all three. They let the SLAM drop and go back to normal chlorine levels. While the normal levels hold the hidden algae at bay all it takes is a couple of days of forgetting to add chlorine. The algae roars back in force and you have a nice green pool.
    TFP Moderator 39 X 18 23,000(ish) freeform gunite; built 2007ish; Pentair Triton II TR100 600lb Sand filter; 2 HP Pentair pump with 2.2 HP AO Smith single speed motor; 2 skimmers, 1 main drain, 4 returns w/waterfall, Stenner 45MHP2 3GPD running@ 60% - 15 gal Tank; heated by the sun CYA 200+ when I started - 50 now. Dolphin Supreme M5 Pool Cleaner. Hot Springs SX Spa, 285 gallon

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    Re: Stay the course or is a change in direction necessary

    Getting ready for the yearly deep cleaning of my sand filter as Matt (joyful noise) suggested. That's more to ensure water in the pool is clear, correct? My algae issue is a chemistry issue, if I understand correctly. Deep cleaning the sand filter isn't going to help to get my FC and CC numbers under control?
    Bob (AKA Schnozz)
    12 x 24 x 52 Intex Ultra Frame AGP, 8600 Gal; Pentair 2HP/2SP 150sqft Cartridge Filter; Hayward Through Wall Skimmer; Intex Automatic Cleaner (Fantastic); K-2006 Test Kit; Start-up 07/30/2015. First Time Pool Owner in SoCal.

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    Texas Splash's Avatar
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    Re: Stay the course or is a change in direction necessary

    Correct. Testing with the proper test kit will ensure proper chemistry and resolve algae issues. Deep cleaning the sand filter from time to time is important to ensure the filter is operating at peak efficiency and has not become compacted or developed "channels" which prevent water from flowing properly through the sand.
    Pat (a.k.a. Texas Splash) ~ My Pool: Viking Fiberglass; 17,888 Gal; Waterway Supreme 2-sp/2-hp pump; Hayward Ctg filter; TF-100 w/ Speed Stir
    Vital Links: POOL SCHOOL, RECOMMENDED LEVELS, RECOMMENDED CHEMICALS, Poolmath Calculator, SLAM, Chlorine/CYA CHART.
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    Re: Stay the course or is a change in direction necessary

    Posted on the 26th about having difficulty getting my numbers under control. Ive been slamming since the 13th. It's now the 6th of June and almost a month has past. Still unable to get my CC below .5, or pass OCLT.
    I've been keeping my FC between 18ppm and 23ppm for about two weeks. Last two weekends I've baby sat the pool while working in the yard checking the numbers every hour or two faithfully and brushing dutifully. During the week, my wife adds liquid chlorine every three hours. (Amount to add was determined by usage over the weekend while I monitored FC. I've been to add 27 oz. (12%) every two to three hours to maintain 18 - 24 ppm. Sometimes a bit more, sometimes a bit less.) Checked the numbers at 8:00 PM when the pool was completely shaded last night and got a FC reading of 21.5. Up at 3:30 AM this morning before leaving for work tested again and had a reading of 18.5 ppm with a CC between 1.5 and 2.0. I've checked my CYA several times. Consistently 40 - 45.
    I've back washed at least once a week due to increased pressure.
    Any suggestions? Seems like a very long slam based on all the info on the site. HELP!! And Thanks....
    Bob (AKA Schnozz)
    12 x 24 x 52 Intex Ultra Frame AGP, 8600 Gal; Pentair 2HP/2SP 150sqft Cartridge Filter; Hayward Through Wall Skimmer; Intex Automatic Cleaner (Fantastic); K-2006 Test Kit; Start-up 07/30/2015. First Time Pool Owner in SoCal.

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    Texas Splash's Avatar
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    Re: Stay the course or is a change in direction necessary

    You are correct Schnozz, that is an exceptionally long time for a SLAM. So if we round-up your CYA to 50 to be safe, your SLAM FC level is 20 which you seem to be doing well. While you seem to be putting-in a tremendous effort, the only things I can see that may be applicable to your delay are:
    - Poor water circulation; often times the original Intex return(s) don't seem to move water too well causing some stagnant areas. You might experiment with a couple ping pong balls on the water to check.
    - CYA ... you show a consistent result in the 40s. Was that tested outside on a sunny day? Just in case, have you had your wife try the dot test to compare results? If your CYA is actually higher, then there's a chance your SLAM FC should be 24 which could be a factor.
    - Accurate FC is very important. I wonder if during the day when you're at work, if the amount of bleach being added by your wife (on average) simply isn't meeting the required SLAM FC level? Maybe she can do the FC testing while you are away?
    - Did you get a chance to do the sand deep clean yet?

    I realize some of these questions may seem repetitious - sorry. Just thinking out loud here to find the cause. Your SLAM should not take so long. There's got to be something fairly simple preventing you from breaking through. When the correct FC/CYA ratio is maintained, surfaces brushed, and pump on 24/7, algae simply cannot survive in that sanitary environment.
    Pat (a.k.a. Texas Splash) ~ My Pool: Viking Fiberglass; 17,888 Gal; Waterway Supreme 2-sp/2-hp pump; Hayward Ctg filter; TF-100 w/ Speed Stir
    Vital Links: POOL SCHOOL, RECOMMENDED LEVELS, RECOMMENDED CHEMICALS, Poolmath Calculator, SLAM, Chlorine/CYA CHART.
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    Re: Stay the course or is a change in direction necessary

    Pat:
    I kinda figured it may just be operator error or at least I need to keep better control.....Let me do my guzintas (Calculations..you know: Goes into...my math) and figure out if I can more accurately figure out how much chlorine to add during the day and how many times to add it to keep us above the required slam levels for my current CYA.

    I did test for CYA with my back to the sun, holding the vial about waist high. I will first deep clean the filter, then use my wife's eyes to test for CYA along with mine to see if I missed the mark a bit.

    The only algae I can see, and only when I brush, is a yellowish/brown color on the South end of the pool floor. No Clumps of algae. I got in to show the pool and algae whose boss, and to brush, this weekend. That end of the pool floor was a bit slimmey under foot, but not too much and not the entire pool floor. Not much is kicked up when I brush either, but some. The water gets a bit cloudy. Could it be mustard algae or is it too early to tell? (Clearly I'm trying to shift the blame off myself and onto the algae!) If so, I understand that my FC would have to increase regardless of the CYA according to Pool Math Calculator. I know something is dying because the filter needs to be backwashed more often than usual so it's collecting something.

    Anything to do about bad circulation except increase the size of the pump and filter? Running what came with the pool, stock Intex 1/2 HP pump and 12" or 14" Sand Filter. Currently, I have the return pointed down at about 45 degree angle and away from the skimmer. It's been great, but is this what everyone means when they say Intex is notorious for providing undersized pumps and filters with their pools? They're not too expensive, maybe I should consider a 3/4 HP pump?

    Has it been too long in a SLAM? Should I let it wind down to normal numbers, adjust my pH and other chemicals as well, and then back up to SLAM levels once again?

    Thanks for taking the time
    Bob (AKA Schnozz)
    12 x 24 x 52 Intex Ultra Frame AGP, 8600 Gal; Pentair 2HP/2SP 150sqft Cartridge Filter; Hayward Through Wall Skimmer; Intex Automatic Cleaner (Fantastic); K-2006 Test Kit; Start-up 07/30/2015. First Time Pool Owner in SoCal.

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    Texas Splash's Avatar
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    Re: Stay the course or is a change in direction necessary

    No need to let the FC come down yet. You're too close. Hang in there. Even if that stuff on the south side is mustard algae, the initial treatment is to pass the 3 SLAM criteria first, then increase FC to a MA level only for 24 hours. Kind of the "knockout punch". It's very important to keep sweeping, brushing, and stirring that stuff up so the bleach can get to it. As for the pump and filter, it may have some limitations, but the one return is what may be a factor. That's the only thing pushing your chlorine around. Some Intex owners will upgrade later once they're convinced they are happy with the pool and going to keep it a while. They may get a larger pump/filter, and/or install a second return port (jet). But you should be able to get by for now. Your plan ahead with the sand cleaning and double-checking your tests are very good. Let's see how your water responds after trying to those things then we can go from there.
    Pat (a.k.a. Texas Splash) ~ My Pool: Viking Fiberglass; 17,888 Gal; Waterway Supreme 2-sp/2-hp pump; Hayward Ctg filter; TF-100 w/ Speed Stir
    Vital Links: POOL SCHOOL, RECOMMENDED LEVELS, RECOMMENDED CHEMICALS, Poolmath Calculator, SLAM, Chlorine/CYA CHART.
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    cowboycasey's Avatar
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    Re: Stay the course or is a change in direction necessary

    Your getting there and while I am not sure if you want to upgrade your pump here is someone we just helped that might help

    I Should Have Listened First Place! - Upgraded Pump Intex Auto Cleaner Saves Day!!
    Pool: Intex 16x32 15000 gal, 2 speed 340042, Pentair CC320 Filter, CircuPool SJ45 Salt System, Intermatic PE653RC; Hot Tub: 650 Gal SWG Megachlor
    links: pool school * Recommended-Levels * SLAM * CYA chart * Test kits * How To Post Pictures * Poolmath * OCLT ** Support your website if we helped you :) **

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    Re: Stay the course or is a change in direction necessary

    Cowboycasey: Thanks for the link....I think a larger pump, a second return, and auto cleaner are in my future...

    Pat: Got tied up last night but did get a chance to brush and to have my wife help with the CYA numbers while the sun was still in the sky. The numbers are good, but a bit lower than I thought. She tested several times and I verified, we're in the 35 - 40 range.

    I'm having her add chlorine a little more often to keep the numbers steady at about 20ppm.

    Staying the course, looking forward to passing the OCLT soon....

    Thanks for the help...
    Bob (AKA Schnozz)
    12 x 24 x 52 Intex Ultra Frame AGP, 8600 Gal; Pentair 2HP/2SP 150sqft Cartridge Filter; Hayward Through Wall Skimmer; Intex Automatic Cleaner (Fantastic); K-2006 Test Kit; Start-up 07/30/2015. First Time Pool Owner in SoCal.

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    Mod Squad zea3's Avatar
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    Re: Stay the course or is a change in direction necessary

    Quote Originally Posted by Schnozz View Post
    Pat:

    The only algae I can see, and only when I brush, is a yellowish/brown color on the South end of the pool floor. No Clumps of algae. I got in to show the pool and algae whose boss, and to brush, this weekend. That end of the pool floor was a bit slimmey under foot, but not too much and not the entire pool floor. Not much is kicked up when I brush either, but some. The water gets a bit cloudy. Could it be mustard algae or is it too early to tell? (Clearly I'm trying to shift the blame off myself and onto the algae!) If so, I understand that my FC would have to increase regardless of the CYA according to Pool Math Calculator. I know something is dying because the filter needs to be backwashed more often than usual so it's collecting something.
    Try bumping the FC to mustard algae levels. I don't think you are going to pass all the SLAM criteria if it is mustard algae, so go ahead and raise the chlorine to mustard algae levels and try the OCLT after 24 hours.
    TFP Moderator
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    Re: Stay the course or is a change in direction necessary

    Ok. Going to try the raise my FC to 24 by sundown. My wife will keep track of the FC tomorrow. How long can I risk keeping that level?..
    Bob (AKA Schnozz)
    12 x 24 x 52 Intex Ultra Frame AGP, 8600 Gal; Pentair 2HP/2SP 150sqft Cartridge Filter; Hayward Through Wall Skimmer; Intex Automatic Cleaner (Fantastic); K-2006 Test Kit; Start-up 07/30/2015. First Time Pool Owner in SoCal.

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    Re: Stay the course or is a change in direction necessary

    Per the suggestion of zea3 on the 7th , I have shot for a higher FC level.
    On 6/8 at 6:00 pm, my FC measured 13ppm. We brushed the pool very good and I added 128 oz of 12% liquid chlorine. Measured again at 9:30 pm and FC had risen to 25.5.
    On 6/9 we added four gallons of chlorine over the course of the day. At 6:00 pm, FC measured 30.5. Brushed the pool and put it to bed.
    on 6/10 we added four gallons of chlorine over the course of the day. At 6:00 pm, FC measured 29.5. Brushed the pool and checked FC one more time at 8:30 pm. FC measured 28.
    ON 6/11 AT 7:00 am checked FC and measured 26. Brushed the walls and floor thoroughly then I added 45 oz of 12% chlorine to get back to 30 ppm.
    Going to hold between 26 and 30 over the weekend to try to finish this off. I'll check and brush every two hours or so.
    Re-checked CYA. Had my wife check as well in case my old eyes missed something. After adding water due to evaporation, vacuuming to waste and backwashing over the last week, CYA has dropped from 35 to 30..
    I cannot tell you how dazed & confused I am....
    What sayeth all y'all.......
    Last edited by Schnozz; 06-12-2016 at 12:02 PM. Reason: corrected spelling....correct data
    Bob (AKA Schnozz)
    12 x 24 x 52 Intex Ultra Frame AGP, 8600 Gal; Pentair 2HP/2SP 150sqft Cartridge Filter; Hayward Through Wall Skimmer; Intex Automatic Cleaner (Fantastic); K-2006 Test Kit; Start-up 07/30/2015. First Time Pool Owner in SoCal.

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    Re: Stay the course or is a change in direction necessary

    image.jpgCrystal clear.....
    Checked FC again at 10:00. It had dropped to 26.5 ppm with a CC of 2.0.
    Added 50 oz. of 12% liquid chlorine.
    Back again at 12:00 for brushing and feeding....
    Last edited by Schnozz; 06-11-2016 at 09:12 PM. Reason: number correction/added attachment
    Bob (AKA Schnozz)
    12 x 24 x 52 Intex Ultra Frame AGP, 8600 Gal; Pentair 2HP/2SP 150sqft Cartridge Filter; Hayward Through Wall Skimmer; Intex Automatic Cleaner (Fantastic); K-2006 Test Kit; Start-up 07/30/2015. First Time Pool Owner in SoCal.

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    Re: Stay the course or is a change in direction necessary

    Didn't make it back in time, so I had my wife add 50 oz about 11:30. Got back about 1:00 pm. FC tested at 26 ppm, so I brushed again and added another 50 oz. That should get me back to 30 ppm. Back in an out or so.....
    Last edited by Schnozz; 06-11-2016 at 09:14 PM. Reason: Data Correction
    Bob (AKA Schnozz)
    12 x 24 x 52 Intex Ultra Frame AGP, 8600 Gal; Pentair 2HP/2SP 150sqft Cartridge Filter; Hayward Through Wall Skimmer; Intex Automatic Cleaner (Fantastic); K-2006 Test Kit; Start-up 07/30/2015. First Time Pool Owner in SoCal.

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    cowboycasey's Avatar
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    Re: Stay the course or is a change in direction necessary

    The CC rising and at 2 means it is killing something, whatever you're doing is working.. your water is nice looking I wonder where your CC of 2 is coming from..
    Pool: Intex 16x32 15000 gal, 2 speed 340042, Pentair CC320 Filter, CircuPool SJ45 Salt System, Intermatic PE653RC; Hot Tub: 650 Gal SWG Megachlor
    links: pool school * Recommended-Levels * SLAM * CYA chart * Test kits * How To Post Pictures * Poolmath * OCLT ** Support your website if we helped you :) **

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    Re: Stay the course or is a change in direction necessary

    Not a clue where it might be coming. Ladder has been cleaned and left out, except when I get in to clean. Skimmer and hoses were removed and throughly cleaned a couple weeks ago. Nothing floating on top or resting on thebottom. Normally, I have one of the two suction ports capped off so my skimmer works better, but once a week I remove the plug and let the treated pool water circulate through both suction ports to make sure there's nothing lurking in either suction hose. Removed, inspected and clean d for good measure the return eyeball. No lights, no toys, no nothin' in the pool. I even started purchasing 12% liquid chlorine from a local mom & pop pool store in my area because the chlorine from Home Depot was a little long in the tooth. And since Thursday, we have maintained an FC level of 26 - 30 ppm. Thats 4-gallons of 12% LC each day since Thursday.

    It's funny, I only noticed a little dust being kicked up when I did my regular brushing so I checked for CC and had a reading of about .6 using the 25ml sample size. That was way back on April 25th. After two weeks, I let the numbers comeback to normal, adjusted my PH and started another SLAM on May 13th.

    The last suggestion I recieved was from zea3, who suggested I raise the FC to 24, thinking it may be Mustard Algae.
    To Tell the truth, the program has worked so well for me so well that I believe I'm doing, or not doing something, that's causing my chemistry issues. Just not sure what it is. Re-read the info in pool school, re-read the information extended test kit information page, and am trying to be a lot more consistent when testing. Checked the age of my regeants as well.

    The only maintenance advice I have yet to complete is the deep cleaning of my sand filter. But the water is clear and I think my issue is a chemistry one not one of filtration. Not much can live in a sand filter, can it? I'll deep clean Sunday...
    Oh, and it was suggested that I might want to consider increasing to a 3/4 or 1.0 HP pump and larger sand filter to increase circulation. Maybe even a second return for the same reason.

    For now, unless someone has seen in my posts, or has experienced personally the same situation I'm whining about and can send a bit of advice my way, I'm going to stay the course....

    cowboy casey...thanks for checking back in with me....
    Bob (AKA Schnozz)
    12 x 24 x 52 Intex Ultra Frame AGP, 8600 Gal; Pentair 2HP/2SP 150sqft Cartridge Filter; Hayward Through Wall Skimmer; Intex Automatic Cleaner (Fantastic); K-2006 Test Kit; Start-up 07/30/2015. First Time Pool Owner in SoCal.

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