Become a TFP Supporter Pool Math Forum Rules Pool School
Results 1 to 8 of 8

Thread: Opened two weeks ago, looking for guidance

  1. Back To Top    #1

    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    Hudson, MA
    Posts
    10

    Opened two weeks ago, looking for guidance

    Hi everyone,

    Been readying tfpool for the past month, what a tremendous website! Thank you for sharing your wealth of knowledge.

    I need help. I finally got my TF100 kit today, all excited to test. Here's where I'm at:

    FC: 33
    pH: 7.8
    TA: 209
    CH: 75
    CYA: 50

    Some of these seem a bit funky, but I ran each test at least twice (FC 4 times!).

    According to Pool Math, my FC Shock level should be 20 (29 for algae). I'm way over. pH seems on the high side, but from what I've read given my FC level that's to be expected. TA seems very high and CH very low. I'm working to remove debris (there's a lot of fine dirt in the pool) and will try to scrub (admittedly I've been lacking here).

    At these levels, if I scrub and vacuum religiously, will my pool start to show improvement? I've been at this shock level (I believe) for at least a week now. I'm worried there's something else chemically that needs to happen. I've been backwashing at least once/day.

    Again, thanks for your amazing help. I look forward to learning and contributing where I can.

    Here are some pictures:

    IMG_20160525_142800.jpg
    IMG_20160525_142829.jpg


    Pool 5.25.2016 - Album on Imgur
    18x36 IGP | 29k gallons | Vinyl Liner | Hayward S244T 24" Sand Filter | 1hp Hayward SuperPump | TF100 Kit

  2. Back To Top    #2
    Texas Splash's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    South-Central Texas, Marion/San Antonio
    Posts
    12,928

    Re: Opened two weeks ago, looking for guidance

    Hello and welcome to TFP! The good thing is you have the best test kit out there. So let's get started ....
    - Did you test pH BEFORE raising the FC? If not, I would let the FC fall below 10, confirm pH is at 7.2, then raise the FC again.
    - Since your CYA is 50, a SLAM FC of 20 is required at all times. Do your best to maintain it at 20.
    - Follow all the steps on the SLMA page (link below in my sig) and you'll do fine. It will work, it just takes a bit of time.

    For your FC testing, your numbers should be in increments of 5. For example: (18 drops divided by 2 = an FC of 9; But 19 drops divided by 2 = an FC of 9.5). The instructions say "multiply by 0.5" - basically cut in half.

    - - - Updated - - -

    TA should also be rounded-up or down based on number of drops. For example: once the sample has the 5 green drops added, if it takes you 7 drops to turn the water Barbie pink, your TA is 70.
    Pat (a.k.a. Texas Splash) ~ My Pool: Viking Fiberglass; 17,888 Gal; Waterway Supreme 2-sp/2-hp pump; Hayward Ctg filter; TF-100 w/ Speed Stir
    Vital Links: POOL SCHOOL, RECOMMENDED LEVELS, RECOMMENDED CHEMICALS, Poolmath Calculator, SLAM, Chlorine/CYA CHART.
    If you enjoyed your TFP experience, please consider donating to Support TFP!

  3. Back To Top    #3
    Mod Squad JVTrain's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Central Minnesota
    Posts
    5,079

    Re: Opened two weeks ago, looking for guidance

    Welcome to TFP!

    You're on the right track with the right tools. That's at least half the battle.

    First, you should also be testing for CC when you test FC. Be sure to review the SLAM procedure in my signature. One of the criteria for passing the SLAM is a CC of 0.5 or less. You're not done with the SLAM yet (obviously) but having those CC numbers can let you know how it's progressing. Your FC is too high for your CYA even for a SLAM. Dose to only 20 or very slightly above to effectively kill algae while not damaging your pool liner or wasting chlorine. Chlorine is lost as a % each day to the sun, not a ppm so the higher you go, more chlorine gets "wasted."

    The pH test is not valid when FC levels exceed 10 ppm. So your pH may actually be lower than your currently measuring. High FC tends to make the pH test read falsely high. I would continue the SLAM through to the end and not intentionally allow the FC to drop to test the pH, however.

    Once all the algae is dead, it's up to your filter and for you to maintain that FC to the finish. This is the longest part of the SLAM and largely depends on your filter doing its job. Only backwash your filter when you see a pressure rise of 25% or greater from your clean filter pressure (the pressure right after you complete a thorough backwash). Filters that are slightly dirty filter better so backwashing too often is not helpful. Once you get to the point where you can see the bottom in the deep end, you can consider adding DE to your sand filter to speed things along at the end. Pool School - Add DE to a Sand Filter

    Once your SLAM is complete, you can worry about TA then.
    Joel - TFP Moderator - Minnesota - **Become a TFP Supporter!** Helpful Links: ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry - SLAM Procedure - Chlorine/CYA Chart
    40x20 Pool: 32K Gallons * Vinyl * Bleach Chlorination * Hayward S270T Sand Filter * Pentair SuperFlo 1 HP * Teledyne/Laars Heater * AquaVac Tigershark * TF-100 w/ SpeedStir
    Isolated Spa - 345 Gallons

  4. Back To Top    #4

    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    Hudson, MA
    Posts
    10

    Re: Opened two weeks ago, looking for guidance

    Quote Originally Posted by Texas Splash View Post
    - Did you test pH BEFORE raising the FC? If not, I would let the FC fall below 10, confirm pH is at 7.2, then raise the FC again.
    I didn't have my test kit at the time, unfortunately I didn't test pH as the SLAM instructions say. It will probably take a few days for FC to drop that far; you're saying I should let this happen (not add any Shock) to get a valid pH?

    Quote Originally Posted by Texas Splash View Post
    - Since your CYA is 50, a SLAM FC of 20 is required at all times. Do your best to maintain it at 20.
    Will do!

    Quote Originally Posted by Texas Splash View Post
    - Follow all the steps on the SLMA page (link below in my sig) and you'll do fine. It will work, it just takes a bit of time.
    Will do, i've been doing them for the past 8 days, just w/o a good test kit. Now I feel like I'll actually begin to see progress!

    Quote Originally Posted by Texas Splash View Post
    For your FC testing, your numbers should be in increments of 5.
    It took 66 drops for the liquid to turn clear again, which is where I got the FC 33 figure. Sound right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Texas Splash View Post
    TA should also be rounded-up or down based on number of drops. For example: once the sample has the 5 green drops added, if it takes you 7 drops to turn the water Barbie pink, your TA is 70.
    It took 19 drops to turn pink; the instructions with the TF-100 kit said to multiply by 11. Do you agree?


    So I believe my next steps are:

    • Let the FC drop below 10, measure pH, adjust if needed to target 7.5
    • After this, maintain FC of 20 and follow SLAM process
    • Scrub...lots and lots of scrubbing


    Did I miss anything?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Thanks Joel!

    I see your approach differs slightly from Pat...he thinks I should test for pH (lower my FC), you mentioned not to. I did test CC, forgot to post. . Looks to be CC 1.0.

    I'm worried my filter might be to blame for the lack of improvement. I did a deep clean following the guide on tfp before I opened this season, but I fear I should have gone the whole way and replaced the sand. That's good to know about letting it get 'slightly dirty', I will tone down my aggressive backwashing and see how it goes.
    18x36 IGP | 29k gallons | Vinyl Liner | Hayward S244T 24" Sand Filter | 1hp Hayward SuperPump | TF100 Kit

  5. Back To Top    #5
    Mod Squad JVTrain's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Central Minnesota
    Posts
    5,079

    Re: Opened two weeks ago, looking for guidance

    I suggested not letting your FC drop for two reasons. First being that your shock FC level for SLAM is higher than say someone with 30 ppm CYA (12 FC). Will take some time to let it drop. Also, the pH test TENDS to read high when your FC is too high so it's likely that your pH is less than your 7.8 reading, but that's simply a guess more than knowing what your pH actually is. Letting your FC drop and checking the pH is more prudent and you would have all the information rather than conjecture about what your actual pH is.
    Joel - TFP Moderator - Minnesota - **Become a TFP Supporter!** Helpful Links: ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry - SLAM Procedure - Chlorine/CYA Chart
    40x20 Pool: 32K Gallons * Vinyl * Bleach Chlorination * Hayward S270T Sand Filter * Pentair SuperFlo 1 HP * Teledyne/Laars Heater * AquaVac Tigershark * TF-100 w/ SpeedStir
    Isolated Spa - 345 Gallons

  6. Back To Top    #6

    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    Hudson, MA
    Posts
    10

    Re: Opened two weeks ago, looking for guidance

    Quote Originally Posted by stellsdad View Post
    It took 19 drops to turn pink; the instructions with the TF-100 kit said to multiply by 11. Do you agree?
    I re-read the instructions, as you said it's multiply by 10, not 11. Whoops, I saw the example used 11 drops and got confused



    Anyway, here's an update for today:

    Measurements are just about the same:
    FC: 31
    CC: 1.0
    pH: 7.6 (down slightly, est as it's between 7.5 and 7.8 on the color scale)
    TA: 190
    CH: 75
    CYA: 50

    Yesterday I spent an hour with the net trying to get leaves and debris off the floor, then scrubbed for about 2 hours. I'm pretty sure there's still some debris but I can't see to confirm. Today, I scrubbed at 10am and then again at 3pm. I ran the vacuum after.


    The more I think about it, the more I fear my filter isn't working right. I know I'm only a day in with accurate TF100 data, but I've been at ~30 FC for 2 weeks, my pool hasn't shown any real improvement. It's been very cloudy and the same color the whole time. I know patience is key, but I'm wondering if I have hardware issues to contend with.

    There are two concerns I have about my filter setup:
    1) Could a lateral be broken? I was vacuuming today and noticed dirt coming out of my return

    2) My multiport valve is old, I'm concerned it's not functioning properly. My waste line has a secondary screw valve. If I leave that valve open, the filter sends water to waste even if the multiport is set to filter. Also when you turn the multiport valve, there's somewhat of a grinding feel, like sand is in it somewhere. I'm very careful to always turn the valve clockwise and always with the pump off.

    My pump and filter are approx 15 years old. I was thinking of biting the bullet and getting a new lateral assembly & center pipe, and a new multiport valve. Might as well replace the sand too. Do you think this is smart, or am I being a grumpy, impatient pool owner....

    As always, thanks for your guidance....
    18x36 IGP | 29k gallons | Vinyl Liner | Hayward S244T 24" Sand Filter | 1hp Hayward SuperPump | TF100 Kit

  7. Back To Top    #7
    Texas Splash's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    South-Central Texas, Marion/San Antonio
    Posts
    12,928

    Re: Opened two weeks ago, looking for guidance

    1) Could a lateral be broken? I was vacuuming today and noticed dirt coming out of my return
    That is a possibility.
    2) My multiport valve is old, I'm concerned it's not functioning properly. My waste line has a secondary screw valve. If I leave that valve open, the filter sends water to waste even if the multiport is set to filter. Also when you turn the multiport valve, there's somewhat of a grinding feel, like sand is in it somewhere. I'm very careful to always turn the valve clockwise and always with the pump off.
    Not good either.

    But remember, you only got the TF-100 yesterday, so now you are working with accurate FC/CYA data. That's why the TF-100 is so vital. While you may need to do some filter repairs later, if you can simply keep it on filter then go to backwashes/rinse as needed when pressure increases by 25%, then you can get through the SLAM. The sand should be fine - sand never goes bad unless it was compromised by lots of pool store products or baquacil. So a deep cleaning may be in order, but for now stay with the accurate FC/CYA numbers you have and give it a chance. Even if you changed the filter, the SLAM is what will kill the algae, not the filter.
    Pat (a.k.a. Texas Splash) ~ My Pool: Viking Fiberglass; 17,888 Gal; Waterway Supreme 2-sp/2-hp pump; Hayward Ctg filter; TF-100 w/ Speed Stir
    Vital Links: POOL SCHOOL, RECOMMENDED LEVELS, RECOMMENDED CHEMICALS, Poolmath Calculator, SLAM, Chlorine/CYA CHART.
    If you enjoyed your TFP experience, please consider donating to Support TFP!

  8. Back To Top    #8

    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    Hudson, MA
    Posts
    10

    Re: Opened two weeks ago, looking for guidance

    Hi Splash & Joel,

    Long story short, my filter was the issue presumably from the start. Linking to my thread with details, thanks again for all your help. I'd feel lost without this place but instead feel educated.

    After 2 years of problems, a new filter was the solution. Hallelujah!!


    Cheers,
    Josh
    18x36 IGP | 29k gallons | Vinyl Liner | Hayward S244T 24" Sand Filter | 1hp Hayward SuperPump | TF100 Kit

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •