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Thread: Is Not Having A Rendering/CAD Drawing A Deal Breaker?

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    Question Is Not Having A Rendering/CAD Drawing A Deal Breaker?

    Hello,

    The local pool builder that I'm interested in does not currently offer renderings of your build, but is something that they're working on. I've seen the the builders other installs and they're very nice and the clients are nothing but happy with them. My question is, would you NOT go with a builder that didn't offer drawings to help you envision what your build will look like completed, even if you liked everything else about the builder?

    Thank you

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    Re: Is Not Having A Rendering/CAD Drawing A Deal Breaker?

    For some people it may be. For me, it's not. I teach cad in high school so I'm not all that impressed with what they do. In fact, I already had my plan drawn up to give them an idea what we wanted. The builder we went with just tweaked it a little bit and put it in pool studio. Other builders didn't seem to have a clue what we wanted. Even though I showed them. To be honest, they use the renderings as a selling tool. In my experience renderings do not give a true representation of actuality. It's simply a selling tool that can sometimes get your hopes up. But they look cool. My kids love doing them.

    One builder presented us a hand drawing. I thought that was kind of cool. Hand drawing is a lost art. We just didn't go with him because he was not interested in doing salt.


    Matt
    19,600 Gallons, 34'x24' Cloud Shape, 3.5'-6'-4', 2 Skimmers, 4 returns, natural gray plaster, Oklahoma Flagstone, NPT Silverstone Ocean Blue waterline and maker tiles, Pentair IC40 SWG, Pentair FNS Plus 60 DE Filter, Pentair Intelliflo 2 VST, Pentair EasyTouch 4, Pentair Intellibrite 5g Color Led light, Polaris 280 cleaner, 1.5 ton moss rock waterfall, 785 sq. ft. exposed aggregate deck, and mosaic crab on bench, TF-100 Test Kit

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    twinkiesmommy2009's Avatar
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    Re: Is Not Having A Rendering/CAD Drawing A Deal Breaker?

    Are they giving you anything to help you visualize it? It wouldn't have to be a cad drawing but I'd need pool studio or something to help me visualize it. Also, lends and air of professionalism to the builder. Why don't they have something?


    Started 5/31/16. 38'x23', 618 sqft., <14,000 gallons, 8' spa.Travertine coping. Raised beam w/3 sheers. Large sunshelf w/3 bubblers. SWG IC40, Pentair VSP, 520 cartridge, color LED lights, Easy-touch, screen logic, Maytronics S300i robot, and Wet Edge Prism Matrix finish (Deep Sea Blue with Indigo plaster). Build Thread: Another in Texas - Cypress Texas | MUD District | HOA Approval | Great Escapes Pools

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    Re: Is Not Having A Rendering/CAD Drawing A Deal Breaker?

    It is a deal breaker for me. If the PB cannot find the resources to get a cad / pool studio / art drawing, I will seriously doubt his ability to build the pool. He is subcontracting most of the other jobs - so simply subcontract this one too.

    Also, if they cannot build it on paper, how can they really build and visualize one in reality...what is going to be the basis of the build?
    Geometric pool with all Pentair equipment. Raised spa - 18" with Artic Lagoon 1" glass tiles. 3HP VS Pump, 2 skimmers, 6 returns, IC40 Salt system, Easy Touch 8 with LED color light in pool and spa. 1200 sqft of Marble White Pavers decking in Versailles pattern. Tiling and coping almost completed, Indigo Blue Prism Matrix plaster. Pool Build Thread: Houston (Katy) Pool Build - Started April 2016

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    Re: Is Not Having A Rendering/CAD Drawing A Deal Breaker?

    I think some pool builders merely view renderings as sales tools / not necessary.

    In less competitive markets especially.

    A family member hired their PB based on a sketch alone and references. Turned out great.

    If you have your pool design in mind, and have seen this PB's work and trust him, I don't see any issues.

    However - if you didn't have a design in mind - then I would want a rendering - I probably wouldn't be sold on a design without one.

    Especially if you wanted any sort of falls or water features that are harder to visualize.

    I'd also want a PB to paint the outline before I even sign so i can get a feel for the size.

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    Re: Is Not Having A Rendering/CAD Drawing A Deal Breaker?

    The pool builder just started this new company, after working for almost 30 years with another local installer. At the old company, they had the drawing tools, but he has yet to implement them in this new company that he's started, but it is something that they're working on.

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    Re: Is Not Having A Rendering/CAD Drawing A Deal Breaker?

    Quote Originally Posted by Prey521 View Post
    The pool builder just started this new company, after working for almost 30 years with another local installer. At the old company, they had the drawing tools, but he has yet to implement them in this new company that he's started, but it is something that they're working on.
    I might wonder as to what else does PB not have? Liability Insurance? Sufficient capital to cover mistakes? Credit history with suppliers? Volume discounts?

    Is PB going to be around for warranty issues? The stats of new businesses failing are staggering. Even if this PB is giving you a 30% discount compared to other builders, I will hesitate. Big pause. (And in my family, I am known as a reckless risk taker...so go figure).
    Geometric pool with all Pentair equipment. Raised spa - 18" with Artic Lagoon 1" glass tiles. 3HP VS Pump, 2 skimmers, 6 returns, IC40 Salt system, Easy Touch 8 with LED color light in pool and spa. 1200 sqft of Marble White Pavers decking in Versailles pattern. Tiling and coping almost completed, Indigo Blue Prism Matrix plaster. Pool Build Thread: Houston (Katy) Pool Build - Started April 2016

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    Re: Is Not Having A Rendering/CAD Drawing A Deal Breaker?

    My builder did a quick sketch before he even met with us. He had already driven by and scoped out our yard. That says volumes more to me than an actual artistic rendering. I did create on of my own though so I could better visualize. ��
    Amanda & Raleigh - NE OH
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    Re: Is Not Having A Rendering/CAD Drawing A Deal Breaker?

    I would be leery of a brand new company....
    Denise-TFP Guide
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    Re: Is Not Having A Rendering/CAD Drawing A Deal Breaker?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nursenini View Post
    I would be leery of a brand new company....
    He started his own company, but I checked with his old company and they thought very highly of him. I was also able to see the pools that he installed with his old company and they were very nice and the customers were very happy. He just decided to start his own company and has quite a few installs going at the moment which I will go check out this weekend. I also have an appt with his old company to give me a quote as well this weekend. BTW, not sure if it matters, but this is a fiberglass pool install, so I already know what the pool will look like in the ground since I've already selected a few models from each builder that I'm most interested in.

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    Re: Is Not Having A Rendering/CAD Drawing A Deal Breaker?

    It looks like you are doing the necessary due dilligence and are aware of potential risks.

    There is something to be said for 'gut' feel. (Not the I know I will win the powerball tomorrow type of gut feeling )
    Geometric pool with all Pentair equipment. Raised spa - 18" with Artic Lagoon 1" glass tiles. 3HP VS Pump, 2 skimmers, 6 returns, IC40 Salt system, Easy Touch 8 with LED color light in pool and spa. 1200 sqft of Marble White Pavers decking in Versailles pattern. Tiling and coping almost completed, Indigo Blue Prism Matrix plaster. Pool Build Thread: Houston (Katy) Pool Build - Started April 2016

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    Re: Is Not Having A Rendering/CAD Drawing A Deal Breaker?

    IMO, having the ability to make a pretty picture and the ability to build a pool correctly are completely independent. Just because a company has not hired an art student in no way reflects their ability to design and build a pool.

    The computer models are certainly much more of a marketing / sales tool and I would not be surprised if they were not used at all for the actual build, beyond maybe pulling some dimensions. I will agree though that they can certainly help you visualize things if you are struggling with a design, but I would not call them a requirement.

    I would be more leery of a newer company with lots of dazzling graphics than I would of an old established company with references that showed me a drawing on a napkin.
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    Re: Is Not Having A Rendering/CAD Drawing A Deal Breaker?

    Quote Originally Posted by Prey521 View Post
    He started his own company, but I checked with his old company and they thought very highly of him. I was also able to see the pools that he installed with his old company and they were very nice and the customers were very happy. He just decided to start his own company and has quite a few installs going at the moment which I will go check out this weekend. I also have an appt with his old company to give me a quote as well this weekend. BTW, not sure if it matters, but this is a fiberglass pool install, so I already know what the pool will look like in the ground since I've already selected a few models from each builder that I'm most interested in.
    That all sounds good and sounds like you are going in with your eyes wide open. I just know there have been builds where the company collapsed before the build was completed or they were robbing Peter to pay Paul.... Ummgood's build comes to mind.

    Doing fiberglass sounds like it should be a much shorter road to swimming!! What's your projected project length?
    Denise-TFP Guide
    IG 13.6x30 gunite, Radiant Fusion Topaz, 3.6/5.6/4, 14100 gal, 2 skimmer, 4 Hayward LED lights (pool & spa), Hayward Echostar VSP, 2 future fire bowls, raised beam wall w/ scuppers,7x7 raised spa, DE Progrid70, SWG Hayward Goldline, OmniLogic, Hayward 400K BTU heater, stamped colored deck, Dolphin Discovery robotic cleaner, TF100 test kit, Newbie in Bixby Oklahoma

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    Re: Is Not Having A Rendering/CAD Drawing A Deal Breaker?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nursenini View Post
    That all sounds good and sounds like you are going in with your eyes wide open. I just know there have been builds where the company collapsed before the build was completed or they were robbing Peter to pay Paul.... Ummgood's build comes to mind.

    Doing fiberglass sounds like it should be a much shorter road to swimming!! What's your projected project length?
    From digging to swimming is less than 2 weeks according to the builders I've been in contact with. When I looked up those stats online and asked others with FG pools, it seemed about right. We're waiting for my wife to finish with school (she's a teacher), so that she can be home during the install and watch over the process.

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    Re: Is Not Having A Rendering/CAD Drawing A Deal Breaker?

    The CAD drawing is only for the sales department to help clients visualize the project.

    What should be required is a blue print of the entire project so all the subs can follow the master plan. We had a hand drawn master copy just like the good old days that spelled out every detail of the build.
    16k gal plaster with raised spa, Jandy DEV60 filter, 2 HP 2-speed SHPF Jandy Stealth pump
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    Re: Is Not Having A Rendering/CAD Drawing A Deal Breaker?

    I agree with Jblizzle. We don't have a rendering for our current pool build. Yes it would have been fun to see, but I'm fine with not having one. The most important thing to me was references. I called quite a few past customers - some even invited us to see their pools in person.
    18 x 38 gunite, 39-7 deep, 8 x 12 tanning ledge with 8 deep water, umbrella sleeve, 2 LED bubblers.
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    Re: Is Not Having A Rendering/CAD Drawing A Deal Breaker?

    We went with a company that did not offer anything like that. They have been in business for 20 plus years and did a great job but no CAD or drawings were ever offered.
    18k: IG: Black Granite Liner: Aspen: 16x33.5: SWG: Polaris 280

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    Re: Is Not Having A Rendering/CAD Drawing A Deal Breaker?

    The PB I chose did not do any sort of rendering. After meeting with him, and I was sure on the design, I did it myself in Sketchup. It was fun for me since I am software/computer guy. Just think, they built pools for years without them.

    I did check his references though and he was the owner and did some of the work himself with his own crew.

    Sure it nice though to have a nice drawing but it was pulling teeth to get the PB that did it to get it just right and I think it just slowed the quoting process.
    Matt
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    Re: Is Not Having A Rendering/CAD Drawing A Deal Breaker?

    Most, if not all of the renderings, are produced using Pool Studio. It is a very powerful pool design program that cannot be purchased but rather subscribed to on a monthly basis. The subscription fees add up quickly, especially if the pool contractor is not designing pools everyday. Its not surprising smaller companies may not use it. I fall into that boat because I just don't design enough pools to justify the expense.

    With any design program, there is a very steep learning curve that rarely translates to other programs further detouring contractors from committing to it. To make matters worse, pools aren't built from renderings, they are built from construction documents. The renderings are nothing more than visualization for the customer and serve no purpose for the actual project.

    I recently switched to a new CAD program and though I am very pleased with it, I am far from proficient and everything I had done from the old program had to be thrown in the trash. I'd hate to have to learn yet another program for the renderings only but I do see how they can be a huge selling point for the customer









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    Re: Is Not Having A Rendering/CAD Drawing A Deal Breaker?

    Ours didn't have anything like that. He had a picture of the shape we wanted situated on the lot. What he did have though was a good reputation with the local building and zoning people. I don't imagine they are allowed to recommend a certain guy but we asked who puts in the most pools in our town and it was this guy and then the construction official said his mother in law had used this builder as had another relative. That was enough for me. Our building department is tough to please.
    Built in October 2011, 16 x 26 x 20 L shaped vinyl IG steel wall pool, Hayward DE pro grid verticle filter 4800 pool, Hayward two speed superpump, 120,000 BTU Pentair Ultra Temp Heat Pump, Aqua Rite Salt system, 8' wide walk out steps, 2 skimmers, 4 returns, 2 main drains, 500 watt underwater light, intermatic mechanical timer

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