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Thread: Backup problem

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    Backup problem

    I had a new problem when opening the pool this year. I can't find anything even similar in the forum. Everything seems to be working OK, water is clear, pump is working fine, filter pressure is the same as usual. But when I shut off the pump, all the water from the filter, pump, and hoses shoots up out of the skimmer. About 6 feet in the air plus back into the pool. Very suddenly and every time. You have enough warning from the gurgling to get out of the way. Barely.
    I don't even know if the problem is with the filter, the pump, or something else. It's like there's a valve that should be preventing that, isn't working. Is there such a thing? I really need some ideas.
    13K above ground Matrix,
    Pentair sand filter 21"?,
    1.5 HP Pentair Dynamo pump,
    everything new in 2013

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    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: Backup problem

    Easy. Your filter is full of air.

    The bubble compresses under pressure when the pump is on. As soon as the pressure is off, it expands and forces the water out of the filter.

    Open the air bleed on top of the filter with the pump running until the air is all gone. The problem should go away. If it reappears, you need to find out where the air is getting in. Failure to fill the vacuum hose before connecting it? Low water level? Suction side air leak? Could be any or all.

    Oh, and welcome!
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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    Re: Backup problem

    Sorry, I didn't mention I'd already tried that. All the air is out when I start the pump. It's only after I shut it off that it gets full of air. I bleed off all the air before starting the pump again.

    I should also mention I haven't run the vacuum yet this year. Plenty of water, a little on the high side, and I'm not sure what you mean by suction side air leak?

    And thank you for the welcome. Been a member for awhile, but this is the first time I've had a problem I couldn't find the answer for.
    13K above ground Matrix,
    Pentair sand filter 21"?,
    1.5 HP Pentair Dynamo pump,
    everything new in 2013

  4. Back To Top    #4
    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: Backup problem

    Air is entering somewhere while the pump is running? That's a suction side air leak. There's an article in pool school.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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    Re: Backup problem

    Could it possibly be something hooked up wrong? I can't figure out what it could be, but it wouldn't be the first time. And where might the possible air leaks be? Everything's tight, no holes in any hoses.
    13K above ground Matrix,
    Pentair sand filter 21"?,
    1.5 HP Pentair Dynamo pump,
    everything new in 2013

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    Re: Backup problem

    Start with the Suction Side Air leak article in Pool School. That'll define the suction side to you and you can start to eliminate some things. These leaks are often hard to find but very easy to fix when you do.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Re: Backup problem

    I read it and based on that, went and got a new O-ring for the pump basket. I wasn't very pleased with the fit of it though, it was a lot looser than the one I took off. But I ran it a couple minutes and it didn't back up when I shut it off. I'll probably know for sure tomorrow. One of the workers there seemed sure it was the sand that either needed cleaned or replaced. So I also got the chemical to clean it if necessary.
    13K above ground Matrix,
    Pentair sand filter 21"?,
    1.5 HP Pentair Dynamo pump,
    everything new in 2013

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: Backup problem

    What chemical? This is how we recommend to Deep Clean a Sand Filter
    TFP Moderator
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    2012 build and pics, 20k gal gunite, black onyx pebblesheen, OK flagstone, IntellifoVS, cart filter w/Pleatco, IC40 SWG, Solartouch, 5 12'x4' solar panels, HP50HA heat pump, 8mil solar cover, borates, TF-100 test kit, SONOS, Doheny's Discovery Robot, hot tub on bleach

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    Mod Squad kimkats's Avatar
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    Re: Backup problem

    Did you put o-ring lube on it?

    Take back the stuff they sold you and do the above ^^^^^

    Kim
    TFP Moderator 33x52 round AG 25,600 gals Sand Filter 1.5hp Pump - 2 Speed, SLAM, Pool School, Recommended Levels, Recommended Chemicals, Pool Math, Chlorine/CYA Chart, TF-100 Test Kit

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    Re: Backup problem

    Quote Originally Posted by pooldv View Post
    What chemical? This is how we recommend to Deep Clean a Sand Filter
    It's called Kleen It by Bioguard. I read that, haven't had to do it yet.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by kimkats View Post
    Did you put o-ring lube on it?

    Take back the stuff they sold you and do the above ^^^^^

    Kim
    Yes, I put lube on it too. Thanks.
    13K above ground Matrix,
    Pentair sand filter 21"?,
    1.5 HP Pentair Dynamo pump,
    everything new in 2013

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    Re: Backup problem

    it was the sand that either needed cleaned or replaced. So I also got the chemical to clean it if necessary.
    That's just plain ignorant advice. I would not listen to another thing he says...period.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Re: Backup problem

    Quote Originally Posted by duraleigh View Post
    That's just plain ignorant advice. I would not listen to another thing he says...period.
    Apparently it was, because the new O-ring on the pump basket lid seems to have done the job. Still worried about the loose fit of it though. I'm sure it's getting pinched when I tighten the lid down. I can see it becoming a problem again soon.
    13K above ground Matrix,
    Pentair sand filter 21"?,
    1.5 HP Pentair Dynamo pump,
    everything new in 2013

  13. Back To Top    #13

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    Re: Backup problem

    Well, that WAS soon. Already started doing it again. Same as before. I still think I'm on the right track because it was pretty good for a few days. But if not, how likely is the leak to be in the small plug under the pump basket? It seems to have silicone around it so I didn't take it out to check it.
    13K above ground Matrix,
    Pentair sand filter 21"?,
    1.5 HP Pentair Dynamo pump,
    everything new in 2013

  14. Back To Top    #14
    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: Backup problem

    Quote Originally Posted by Merrick View Post
    Well, that WAS soon. Already started doing it again. Same as before. I still think I'm on the right track because it was pretty good for a few days. But if not, how likely is the leak to be in the small plug under the pump basket? It seems to have silicone around it so I didn't take it out to check it.
    That's the drain plug for winterizing. They have an O-ring under the integral washer, If someone's got it all globbed up with silicon, there's probably a problem with that one, too.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

  15. Back To Top    #15

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    Re: Backup problem

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard320 View Post
    That's the drain plug for winterizing. They have an O-ring under the integral washer, If someone's got it all globbed up with silicon, there's probably a problem with that one, too.
    I bought it new, that's just the way it came. I'm not sure it's silicone, but that's what it feels like around it. Do you think I need to revisit the basket O-ring then?
    13K above ground Matrix,
    Pentair sand filter 21"?,
    1.5 HP Pentair Dynamo pump,
    everything new in 2013

  16. Back To Top    #16

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    Re: Backup problem

    After buying yet another new O-ring, which was apparently too small, I ordered 3 new ones from 3 different sellers. The first one that came seemed to do what the others were supposed to. I haven't had any more geysers when I shut it off. I also had the valve on the filter taken apart and a new metal washer put on where a plastic one had a chip in it. That solved the leaking around the top of the valve.
    Thanks so much for all the ideas from everyone. I really appreciate each and every one who helped me.
    13K above ground Matrix,
    Pentair sand filter 21"?,
    1.5 HP Pentair Dynamo pump,
    everything new in 2013

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