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Thread: Ok, so really how important are the returns?

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    Ok, so really how important are the returns?

    New pool, builder came and set up equipment to run 6hrs at 1750rpm and one hour at 3000 rpm for the cleaner. There is a Jandy 3 way valve to divert between return lines and the pool sweep. They mentioned that it was a (set and forget) valve. Currently set for around 75% pool sweep and 25% returns. For the hour at 3000rpm the pool sweep works well, but for the other 6 hours, it finds its way into the corner and spins its wheels. Seems like a lot of wear with no benefit. Should I throw another actuator on the Jandy valve for the pool sweep or can I just turn off the returns? When I just have them open a tiny bit, there is a fair amount of cavitation noise. would it be worse for the cleaner to run at 2250 for 5 hours or spin its wheels in the corner for that long.

    3000rpms with the sweep and returns going is ~1500 watts

    2250rpms with the returns closed makes the sweep faster and costs ~500watts

    1750 with the valve set by the builder is around 300watts
    Build Video 2016 -- Solar Pad 20.5K gunite (37'x15') rectangle (3.5'-7') deep-- MicroFusion Laguna finish -- Jandy VS pump, cartridge and iAqualink RS -- Polaris 360 Black -- 2 Laminar jets -- 2 nichless 30w color led -- 550sq/ft Heliocol solar -- Soft water auto fill -- Stenner 17gpd

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    Re: Ok, so really how important are the returns?

    I take it the sweep is a pressure side...

    I feel a test coming

    try 2250 rpm, half for the time for the sweep and the other half for return and see how it looks after 1 week..

    If the water looks good and your FC level is good try taking the time down for both

    if it starts to look cloudy or not clear, up the time and see where you land
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    Re: Ok, so really how important are the returns?

    For skimming/filtering I use 1100 RPM that uses around 150 Watts per hour. If we assume 6 hours at a cost of 0.16 per kWh = 0.15 per day for skimming, 1 hour of cleaner @ 500 watts = $0.08 per day for a total $0.23 if you had an actuator controlling the setup.

    PB recommendation 300 watts for 6 hours = $0.29 1 hour at 1500 watts = $0.24 for a total of $0.53 per day

    An intermatic valve actuator cost $86 on amazon. It will take 286 days of operation for you to save enough in electrical costs to justify the valve actuator. Let's call it 2 years since you will not have to run at those levels all year long and that does not factor in the savings on wear on the cleaner.
    12,300 Gallon, IG PebbleFina, 3 ft sheer, 2 Jandy nicheless LED lights, Jandy Pro 1.5HP VS pump (A.O. Smith Motor), PB4-60 Booster pump, Polaris 280, Jandy cv340 cartridge filter, Zodiac Z4 control panel W/iAquaLink, Stenner pumps for chlorine & MA connected to WiOn WiFi switches, TF-100. You can support TFP with AmazonSmile just click the link!

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    Re: Ok, so really how important are the returns?

    Quote Originally Posted by atttech-2 View Post
    ...that does not factor in the savings on wear on the cleaner.
    Do you think it is more wear on the cleaner spinning its wheels in the corner of my pool or under normal operation? Or maybe a wash?

    I am mostly interested in any drawbacks of basically using my Polaris as my primary return.

    I wasnt really trying to demonstrate any monetary savings by running the cleaner for a longer period of time sorry for the confusion. I was just contemplating running it the whole time at 2250rpm.

    Do you think it's worth it to add the actuator?
    Last edited by CaptainCannonball; 05-20-2016 at 10:29 PM. Reason: added question :)
    Build Video 2016 -- Solar Pad 20.5K gunite (37'x15') rectangle (3.5'-7') deep-- MicroFusion Laguna finish -- Jandy VS pump, cartridge and iAqualink RS -- Polaris 360 Black -- 2 Laminar jets -- 2 nichless 30w color led -- 550sq/ft Heliocol solar -- Soft water auto fill -- Stenner 17gpd

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    Re: Ok, so really how important are the returns?

    Your PB was Premier right?
    22k gallon IG pebblefina, Jandy 1.5 HP VS, Jandy CV Cartridge filter, Fafco solar panels, Polaris 360 supply side cleaner, waterfall

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: Ok, so really how important are the returns?

    Cleaners are a pain, after a while they start acting weird and you have to mess with them more and more. I threw mine in the yard a month ago because it wouldn't act right and then it got hailed on and broke the ballast. Now it is ded! I would run it as little as possible to get the floor clean. Maybe an hour a day or less. I used to run mine manually an hour maybe twice a week.

    I am with atttech-2 on low speed skimming at 1100 rpm, except I run mine 12 to 24 hours a day depending on how busy the trees are. Keep the stuff in the skimmer baskets and off the bottom.

    I don't think you will get a good circular rotation pattern in the pool to make the skimmers work if most of the water is going to the cleaner. And, I've never heard of anyone doing that so you are a pioneer of new pool theory!
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    Re: Ok, so really how important are the returns?

    LOL that is not where I want to be. Pioneer territory that is.

    I like the idea of keeping the leaves in the skimmer. Maybe I'll just manually run the cleaner when necessary like you.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by gwegan View Post
    Your PB was Premier right?
    Yes, should I be nervous that you know that?
    Build Video 2016 -- Solar Pad 20.5K gunite (37'x15') rectangle (3.5'-7') deep-- MicroFusion Laguna finish -- Jandy VS pump, cartridge and iAqualink RS -- Polaris 360 Black -- 2 Laminar jets -- 2 nichless 30w color led -- 550sq/ft Heliocol solar -- Soft water auto fill -- Stenner 17gpd

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: Ok, so really how important are the returns?

    So, now that I have tossed my cleaner out of the pool. I also don't like it much because it had some algae growing in it last summer. Anyway, enough pool cleaner hating, what I do now to clean the bottom is put all the suction to the bottom drain, (usually it is 80% skimmer/20% drain) scoop any leaves with a leaf rake and brush the pool toward the drain. Works great, all the dust and junk goes to the drain and bigger stuff gets caught in the pump basket and the rest goes to the filter.

    If you have a bottom drain that is.
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    Re: Ok, so really how important are the returns?

    I do, my pool builder plumbed the bottom drains separately from the skimmer, so I like your idea. We will see how the leaves go... Judging from the leaves in our yard over the last few years, we are in for it.
    Build Video 2016 -- Solar Pad 20.5K gunite (37'x15') rectangle (3.5'-7') deep-- MicroFusion Laguna finish -- Jandy VS pump, cartridge and iAqualink RS -- Polaris 360 Black -- 2 Laminar jets -- 2 nichless 30w color led -- 550sq/ft Heliocol solar -- Soft water auto fill -- Stenner 17gpd

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    Re: Ok, so really how important are the returns?

    Actuator vs higher RPM is personal preference, if you do go higher RPM you can run less but there will be more wear on the cleaner, will it reduce it's useful life buy a significant amount I can't say.

    VS pumps are more cost effective at lower RPM's and also much quieter. I love mine for both those reasons and adding the actuator would allow you to take advantage of that and still automate the cleaner.

    Before you decide you might want to talk to whomever is installing the solar it could affect your options and therefore your decision depending on how it gets plumbed.
    12,300 Gallon, IG PebbleFina, 3 ft sheer, 2 Jandy nicheless LED lights, Jandy Pro 1.5HP VS pump (A.O. Smith Motor), PB4-60 Booster pump, Polaris 280, Jandy cv340 cartridge filter, Zodiac Z4 control panel W/iAquaLink, Stenner pumps for chlorine & MA connected to WiOn WiFi switches, TF-100. You can support TFP with AmazonSmile just click the link!

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    Re: Ok, so really how important are the returns?

    That's a really good point, they already stubbed for solar and have the three way valve, but pump speed might be dictated by the solar I'm guessing.
    Build Video 2016 -- Solar Pad 20.5K gunite (37'x15') rectangle (3.5'-7') deep-- MicroFusion Laguna finish -- Jandy VS pump, cartridge and iAqualink RS -- Polaris 360 Black -- 2 Laminar jets -- 2 nichless 30w color led -- 550sq/ft Heliocol solar -- Soft water auto fill -- Stenner 17gpd

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: Ok, so really how important are the returns?

    I run my pump, 3hp, at 1100 rpm (150w) for skimming and making chlorine and at 1950 rpm (550w) for solar.

    Ha, leaves? We have LEAVES. Check my build thread, link in sig. Our skimmers fill to the lid in 15 minutes!
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