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Thread: New pool owner - struggling with CCL

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    New pool owner - struggling with CCL

    First time owning pool.

    Long story and a lot of wasted money (algaecide, clarifier, pool store advice, etc). I will stick with current state unless some of those facts may be relevant.

    Water state is currently blue, cloudy (can see shallow end floor, not deep end). I have vacuumed entire pool a few times the last two weeks, and have brushed it as well.

    Test kit is Taylor K-2006C

    Stats:
    FCL: 2.0
    CCL: 3.4
    CYA: < 30 (could see black dot when full)
    TA: 270
    TH: 550

    Followed advice last night in Taylor book to go with 10x CCL. Used Talyor table - came up with around 95 pints of sodium hypo 10% liquid required to get 34 ppm for a 36k pool. Put in 12 gallons last night, brushed entire pool, unable to test until this afternoon.

    Three main questions for the experts:
    1) reading about how to SLAM, I realize my CYA is too low. I have some and will work on getting it raised. With the retractable cover mostly closed, do I have to get this level up before continuing to try to get the water cleaned up? Or will it only matter if it's in direct sunlight often?
    2) With low PH and high TA, do I need to keep the cover off to allow more air to circulate in?
    3) Anything else stand out? Or just get CYA up and keep SLAM process going?

    Thanks,
    Gregg
    36,000 gallon (20x40 | 3-9ft) - Well water - typically hard, no restrictions
    In-ground - Vinyl liner
    Sand filter - Pentair Tagelus
    Pentair Whisperflo 1 HP pump

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    Texas Splash's Avatar
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    Re: New pool owner - struggling with CCL

    Hello and welcome to TFP! Thank goodness you have one of the good kits. Now for your questions:
    1 - Adjust the CYA to 30 with granular stabilizer and set your FC to the target of 12. Leave the pool un-covered during the SLAM and you're on your way.
    2 - Hummm, I'm not seeing your pH. But adjust it to 7.2 BEFORE you raise the FC for the SLAM. You can deal with the high TA later.
    3 - Focus on the CYA (30), FC (12) and pH (7.2) and you are on your way Gregg. Good luck!
    Pat (a.k.a. Texas Splash) ~ My Pool: Viking Fiberglass; 17,888 Gal; Waterway Supreme 2-sp/2-hp pump; Hayward Ctg filter; TF-100 w/ Speed Stir
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    Re: New pool owner - struggling with CCL

    Sorry - PH was just under 7.0

    And thanks! I'll work on PH and CYA, then get to work on the FCL/CCL.
    36,000 gallon (20x40 | 3-9ft) - Well water - typically hard, no restrictions
    In-ground - Vinyl liner
    Sand filter - Pentair Tagelus
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    Re: New pool owner - struggling with CCL

    I would suggest aiming a little lower on the CYA addition. You may have some in there but it just can't be measured. If it is 20, and you add 30, you would end up at 50. You can always add more later, but you can't easily reduce it.

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    Mod Squad YippeeSkippy's Avatar
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    Re: New pool owner - struggling with CCL

    Have you added any calcium containing product to the pool?

    Your CH level is oddly high for your area of the country (I think?) and sometimes when people add calcium it makes the water cloudy looking for a while.

    Just wondering.... ?
    My Amazon Smile for November12K Fiberglass IG, Infinity 4000 automatic cover, SWCG, Hayward Sand Filter, Hayward 1.5 Pump, Doheny Discovery Robot, Savi Melody LED pool lights, outdoor speakers and other assorted doo-dads. Sundance Altamar Hot Tub.
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    Re: New pool owner - struggling with CCL

    Good point, YS. Also, take that Taylor blue book and stuff it in a drawer somewhere. It is confusing and written as a compromise between logic and the pool industry. Use TFP's guidelines instead.

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    Re: New pool owner - struggling with CCL

    Thanks all. Ch is normal at 500-600 for the area. My first attempt at chlorination may have been cal-hypo granules...bucket is disposed of. So possibly a bit, but not much.

    Today:
    Fcl: .8
    Ccl: 1.6
    Ph: 7.3
    Cya: 30
    Ta: 300
    Ch: 575

    Proceeding to first slam and chucking the Taylor book.

    Thanks,
    Gregg

    Quote Originally Posted by MarianParoo View Post
    Good point, YS. Also, take that Taylor blue book and stuff it in a drawer somewhere. It is confusing and written as a compromise between logic and the pool industry. Use TFP's guidelines instead.
    36,000 gallon (20x40 | 3-9ft) - Well water - typically hard, no restrictions
    In-ground - Vinyl liner
    Sand filter - Pentair Tagelus
    Pentair Whisperflo 1 HP pump

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    Re: New pool owner - struggling with CCL

    If you use a 10ml sample of pool water and then multiply the drops by 0.5, (divide by 2), you will save on reagents.

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    Re: New pool owner - struggling with CCL

    Ok. In need of help now. For cya of 25-30 last night, I saw shock value of 12 ppm. At 2.8 pts per 1 ppm, I got to around 34 pts of 10% sodium hypo liquid. Put in 5 gallons to err on side of more.

    Let sit uncovered all night. This morning, water is still blue but cloudy (cannot see deep end).

    Fcl: 9.5 (measured twice to be sure. Used 10ml rather than 25 if that matters (still two dippers, yes?))
    Ccl: between 1.5 and 2.0
    PH 7.3
    TA: 300- 325
    Ch: 450
    Cya: 25-30

    I'm at a loss as to next step. I suspect TA is up due to ph increaser. Also CCL is still over .5. Do I take FCL up to shock level again (12)? Just seems odd to throw in chlorine when fcl registers so high.

    Still brushing and will vacuum bottom again today.

    Thanks in advance,
    Gregg
    36,000 gallon (20x40 | 3-9ft) - Well water - typically hard, no restrictions
    In-ground - Vinyl liner
    Sand filter - Pentair Tagelus
    Pentair Whisperflo 1 HP pump

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    Texas Splash's Avatar
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    Re: New pool owner - struggling with CCL

    Gregg, you're at that point where you simply need to "maintain" the SLAM FC and give the water some time to change. If we round-up your CYA to 30, then yes - take your FC up to 12 and test it a few times per day to ensure it's staying at 12. Add bleach as necessary. When you add the powder to the 10 ml sample, just one heaping scoop will suffice. I wouldn't worry about TA or anything else right now other than testing FC throughout the day. CCs will fluctuate during the SLAM. No need to get too worried about it until the water gets clear and you see light at the end of the tunnel. Of course continue to scrub, vacuum, and backwash as necessary. The FC of 12 is safe when your CYA is at 30. If you find in the next few days that the CYA dropped because of water loss (backwashing), you can add a little more to ensure your CYA is at 30.
    Pat (a.k.a. Texas Splash) ~ My Pool: Viking Fiberglass; 17,888 Gal; Waterway Supreme 2-sp/2-hp pump; Hayward Ctg filter; TF-100 w/ Speed Stir
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    Re: New pool owner - struggling with CCL

    Thanks, Pat. Understanding know it needs to stay at 12 throughout...somehow didn't grasp that even though it's the central theme of this process. Think I get it now.

    making sure I'm understanding, at this ph and ta, the water will get clear eventually? Just plug away on cl and watch cya?

    thanks again,
    Gregg
    36,000 gallon (20x40 | 3-9ft) - Well water - typically hard, no restrictions
    In-ground - Vinyl liner
    Sand filter - Pentair Tagelus
    Pentair Whisperflo 1 HP pump

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    Re: New pool owner - struggling with CCL

    Yes, the chlorine (bleach) is what will clear the water. The lower pH is only to allow fluctuation during the SLAM as higher FC levels tend to increase pH a bit (temporarily). The TA can be worked after the SLAM because to lower TA you have to adjust (lower) pH as well, but cannot do that during the SLAM. But yes, babysit that FC (12) as much as possible, and check the CYA once every 3-4 days or so only if you find yourself doing a lot of backwashing. Good luck!
    Pat (a.k.a. Texas Splash) ~ My Pool: Viking Fiberglass; 17,888 Gal; Waterway Supreme 2-sp/2-hp pump; Hayward Ctg filter; TF-100 w/ Speed Stir
    Vital Links: POOL SCHOOL, RECOMMENDED LEVELS, RECOMMENDED CHEMICALS, Poolmath Calculator, SLAM, Chlorine/CYA CHART.
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    Re: New pool owner - struggling with CCL

    Updating - just to keep a log at this point. SLAM is continuing.
    5/22 AM: 9.5 FCL 1.5 CCL - 1.5 gallons of 10% added
    5/22 PM: 10.5 FCL 1.0 CCL - .5 gallons added - full brush
    5/23 AM: 10.5 FCL .5 CCL - .5 gallons added - full brush and vaccuum
    5/23 early PM: 7.5 FCL .5 CCL - 1.5 gallons added - backwashed filter
    5/23 late PM: 12.5 FCL 1.5 CCL - no action
    5/24 AM: 7.0 FCL 1.0 CCL - 1.5 gallons 12.5% added

    Water appears to be gaining some clarity. I believe we're getting there.

    Gregg
    36,000 gallon (20x40 | 3-9ft) - Well water - typically hard, no restrictions
    In-ground - Vinyl liner
    Sand filter - Pentair Tagelus
    Pentair Whisperflo 1 HP pump

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    Mod Squad YippeeSkippy's Avatar
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    Re: New pool owner - struggling with CCL

    Gregg- a couple things I see that I want to mention.

    The retracting cover should be open at all times during a SLAM. The sun's UV rays will help get rid of CC's.

    Also, your last CH reading is significantly less from the 21st to 22nd. Unless you replaced some water, your CH can't drop from 575 to 450 overnight.
    I'm concerned about testing errors.

    Yip
    My Amazon Smile for November12K Fiberglass IG, Infinity 4000 automatic cover, SWCG, Hayward Sand Filter, Hayward 1.5 Pump, Doheny Discovery Robot, Savi Melody LED pool lights, outdoor speakers and other assorted doo-dads. Sundance Altamar Hot Tub.
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    Re: New pool owner - struggling with CCL

    Thanks, Yip. I have been keeping the cover open thanks to some prior advice on this forum - I will take that out of my signature line.
    The CH number surprised me too. It's more likely I lost count and it was probably 550, not 450. Haven't retested as I've been more focused on the SLAM, which is still ongoing.

    I appreciate the heads-up.

    Gregg
    36,000 gallon (20x40 | 3-9ft) - Well water - typically hard, no restrictions
    In-ground - Vinyl liner
    Sand filter - Pentair Tagelus
    Pentair Whisperflo 1 HP pump

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    Re: New pool owner - struggling with CCL

    Update:

    Readings on 5/24 PM - 5/25 - 2-3 readings per day, each time FCL was between 7.5-9.5 and CCL has been .5 or less. I tend to lose about 4 Fcl overnight.
    Backwashed filter on 5/25 and retested CYA after backwash. Steady at 30.
    Vaccuuming/brushing daily and also running robot at least 3 hours daily.
    Water is still blue/cloudy. Clarity is slightly improving, I can see to the bottom of the sides of the deep end now.

    I assume the sand in this filter is a few years old (just bought the house this year). Backwashing till clear and rinsing takes it down to about 22 PSI. Would it speed things up if I followed the tip to add some DE to my sand filter?

    Thanks,
    Gregg
    36,000 gallon (20x40 | 3-9ft) - Well water - typically hard, no restrictions
    In-ground - Vinyl liner
    Sand filter - Pentair Tagelus
    Pentair Whisperflo 1 HP pump

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    Re: New pool owner - struggling with CCL

    Sand doesn't get old. It's already millions, if not billions of years old

    Adding DE will speed up the time between backwashes. And you'll have to add it every time you backwash. It might be better to leave it alone, I would.
    Built in 1957 44,000 gallon in-ground, Wet Edge Primera Stone in Sky Blue, Intelliflo VF Pump, 600 lb. Pentair Triton II TR-100 Sand Filter, CircuPool RG 60 Plus SWG, TF-100 test kit
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    JoyfulNoise's Avatar
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    Re: New pool owner - struggling with CCL

    A little word of advice - don't bother doing any tests other than FC & CC during a SLAM. High FC levels skews the pH test and can make the colors on the other tests bleach out a little bit. The CYA test would be fine but it's not worth repeating that test once you get a good value as CYA does not change. No other parameters are important at this point, just do FC/CC.
    Matt
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    Re: New pool owner - struggling with CCL

    Update:

    Have been <.5 Chloramines nearly all tests the last week or so.

    I Let FCL drop to 5 over 2 days for swimming. Adjusted back to 12.5 last night. This morning, FCL registered at 12, first time we've dropped < 1 ppm overnight.

    Only issue is it's still cloudy. Can't see bottom of deep end. I've verified that the previous owner changed out the sand last year, but also that they often used a cellulose solution to help with pollen/fine particles. (BioGuard SparkleUp). I intend to keep it a 12 a couple more days, but I'm feeling like maybe the filter just isn't getting the little stuff...
    36,000 gallon (20x40 | 3-9ft) - Well water - typically hard, no restrictions
    In-ground - Vinyl liner
    Sand filter - Pentair Tagelus
    Pentair Whisperflo 1 HP pump

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    Re: New pool owner - struggling with CCL

    You might find yourself later needing to use the TFP Pool School - Add DE to a Sand Filter page.
    Pat (a.k.a. Texas Splash) ~ My Pool: Viking Fiberglass; 17,888 Gal; Waterway Supreme 2-sp/2-hp pump; Hayward Ctg filter; TF-100 w/ Speed Stir
    Vital Links: POOL SCHOOL, RECOMMENDED LEVELS, RECOMMENDED CHEMICALS, Poolmath Calculator, SLAM, Chlorine/CYA CHART.
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