Hayward RS-1000, air in plumbing

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DaveInPhx

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In The Industry
Apr 8, 2009
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El Mirage, Arizona
I've got a 1hp Hayward RS-1000 and there's a lot of air passing through the system.

I've got a Clearwater C170 chlorine generator and there's a lot of clear plastic for viewing with this thing. There's quite a bit of air flowing through it in the last couple of weeks and the pressure on the filter gauge has dropped from ~15 to ~7 (sometimes as low as 4).

My first suspicion was the o-ring on the basket lid because it was flat and hard, but I changed it and it didn't seem to help at all.

I can't find leaks in any of the plumbing so I'm guessing the seal on the pump is letting air past and needs to be replaced.

I can't seem to find a reference to the RS-1000 on any of the online pump supply places and was wondering if this model has been replaced with another one or if a seal from another pump will fit.

Also, what are some other possible sources of air in the system? Could it be coming the selector lever on the filter?

Thanks for any info you can provide!
 
Yeah, sure enough. It looks like the Super II, although instead of the screw-on strainer cover mine has two knobs on either side to secure the cover.

I'll check on the drain plugs this afternoon. I also had an idea to remove the strainer cover and set a piece of plexi-glass on there so I can see down into the strainer area with the pump running. By doing this I'm thinking I'll be able to determine if the air is present in the return plumbing or if it's coming from some part of the pump housing, etc.

Anyone ever try this?
 
Oh, it could also be based on the Max Flo. Looks sort of like a mix of the two. Too bad I don't see any pump curve for the RS.

It's tough to tell where air is coming from, even with a clear view. If you knock out the lid and plug possibilities then it would have to be in the plumbing. The other possibility would be that the diffuser o-ring has gone bad or the housing itself has cracked between the suction and pressure sides (this happens a lot on regular super pumps), but that's usually a more gradual problem. Still it might be worth taking it apart just to check.
 
The Max Flo has the knobs on the front edge. The RS has them opposite each other in the top center front-to-back. They swing out to the side when you loosen them to remove the lid.

The Super II parts list lists 3 different lids - only one says "Tread Style" which seems to be the one pictured. I'm guessing I have the one that isn't threaded or for Biguanide sanitizers.
 
Ok, so here's the results of my latest round of experiments.

I put a piece of plexiglass on the strainer basket and ran it until the water was completely clear (no air at all).

This tells me the air is being introduced after the strainer basket. There are two plugs on this pump. One in the strainer basket and one in the (apparently) impeller housing. The plug in the strainer housing is tight and no air is escaping in this way. The other plug is under pressure and started spraying water pretty good when I loosened it. No way air is getting sucked in here.

I took the lever valve apart on the sand filter and there was a chunk of Crud on the seat. I was sure this was the problem, however when I put it back together, it's only marginally better (up to 9 psi from 7). I'm guessing the chunk of Crud was having an effect on performance, but only a very small effect.

So now I'm starting to suspect the problem is back in the pump housing somewhere. Is it possible the pump impeller is cavitating? If it was, it seems to me that once the bubbles got past the impeller they would be re-absorbed back into the water. So now what? It seems to me that everything past the strainer basket is positive pressure, so now I can't imagine anywhere that could be sucking in air.
 
This tells me the air is being introduced after the strainer basket.
Click to expand...
Hi, Dave,

If I understand your thread I think it means your issue is with the pump strainer lid seal. If there's no air when you replace the lid with plexiglas, why would you not suspect the lid itself. I may have overlooked something obvious here so I apologize if I did.

FWIW, everthing in front of the impellor to the skimmers is considered the suction side of your system and that's where air leaks occur. Everything after the impellor all the way to the returns in the pool is considered the pressure side and those leaks are cdharacterized by spewing water....just as you theorized.
 
duraleigh said:
Hi, Dave,

If I understand your thread I think it means your issue is with the pump strainer lid seal. If there's no air when you replace the lid with plexiglas, why would you not suspect the lid itself. I may have overlooked something obvious here so I apologize if I did.

FWIW, everthing in front of the impellor to the skimmers is considered the suction side of your system and that's where air leaks occur. Everything after the impellor all the way to the returns in the pool is considered the pressure side and those leaks are cdharacterized by spewing water....just as you theorized.
Click to expand...

There is no air in the strainer basket, but there is still air getting into the system. I can see it in the SWG tube, which is after the filter. If I push down a little on the filter selector lever while the pump is running, more air goes rushing through the SWG, which is why I suspected there was a problem with the filter selector. (Maybe something is not allowing the valve to fully seat itself?)

In short, there is no difference in the symptoms with the strainer lid on or off - air is still present at the SWG and the positive pressure is low. It's just that using the plexiglass, I can actually see into the basket where I couldn't with the lid in place.
 
Could be that you've got a partially blocked impeller or something else reducing your water flow, which slows the water through the generator, which give it more time to produce more gas. When you push down on the valve, same issue. Increased pressure on the system = less flow = more gas produced in the cell.
 

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Yeah, I'm starting to suspect the impeller/restriction as well, although I disconnected the power leads for the SWG to make sure it wasn't the source of the bubbles.

I'm bummed about having to pull this pump apart. It looks like I might be able to separate the motor from the pump housing without having to disconnect the plumbing. Am I seeing that right? I really don't want to cut pipe.
 
Ok, good news.

I picked up a housing and diffuser gasket and pulled the pump apart to see what was going on.

Turns out one of our trees drops these short stem things that look sort of like a small cherry stem. They are small enough to make it past the skimmer basket but long enough to fold over the impeller vanes.

I cleared out the impeller and changed out the gaskets I bought and now the pump is working better than it ever has.

So now I think I need to put a piece of window screen or some sort of mesh in the skimmer basket to catch these stems from now on.

Any suggestions?

P.S. Thanks to spishex for your help!

Edit: BTW, no idea where the air was coming from. The housing bolts were not very tight (just a little more than finger tight) so I'm wondering if air was escaping past the housing gasket, although my understanding is that this gasket is under positive pressure so it doesn't make much sense that this could be the cause. At any rate, the air problem has disappeared.
 
No problem. Glad you got it figured out! I can reach the impeller of some pumps with my fingers through the strainer basket. If that's the case with yours, I'd just poke in every now and then and check for accumulation. If you can't reach it, try some screening material (I'd avoid using metal unless you can find some stainless mesh) and let us know how you secured it and how it works out.
 
What about something like this?

http://www.divers-supply.com/-P447.aspx?afid=12

It looks like I could fold the top over the basket and just use the drawstring to secure it in place. Maybe use a couple zipties over the top lip to keep the bag from rotating inside the basket.

For the inlet hole, I'm thinking I could take an empty tomato sauce can (~2.5") and heat the rim up to cauterize a hole.
 
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