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Thread: IC40 vs IC60: I could use a little help here.

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    IC40 vs IC60: I could use a little help here.

    I just got off the phone with my pool guy who knows I'm a TFP person (but he manages opening, closing, and installs).

    Anyway, he is recommending that I stick with the IC40 since the IC60 is overkill. It is true the IC60 will last longer, but without the Intelliflow system, he said the IC40 will work better with my Hayward Superpump.

    Again, my pool is around ~35k.

    Looking for some expert advice.
    20x40 L-shape 35k gallons, Pentair FNS 60 SQFT DE Filter, Pentair Multi-port Valve, Hayward Super Pump w/1 glorious HP, Vinyl Liner, Dolphin Z5, TF-100 w/Speed Stir

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    Re: IC40 vs IC60: I could use a little help here.

    I call BS.

    The type of pump you have makes no difference as long as your flow is sufficient. Now having a variable speed pump is a nice option because it allows you to generate chlorine at the lowest possible speed for a given plumbing setup, but as long as you have flow, the SWG works. The chlorine output is not flow rate dependent.

    Now if you're doing a standalone SWG setup, then I don't recommend a Pentair Intellichlor because they are really design to work with the EasyTouch automation panel. A Hayward Aquarite is better for a standalone setup.
    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    Re: IC40 vs IC60: I could use a little help here.

    If I went with the Intelliflow pump, would you do IC40 or IC60? Also, how do you like your Intelliflow system?
    20x40 L-shape 35k gallons, Pentair FNS 60 SQFT DE Filter, Pentair Multi-port Valve, Hayward Super Pump w/1 glorious HP, Vinyl Liner, Dolphin Z5, TF-100 w/Speed Stir

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    Re: IC40 vs IC60: I could use a little help here.

    Quote Originally Posted by pisymbol View Post
    If I went with the Intelliflow pump, would you do IC40 or IC60? Also, how do you like your Intelliflow system?
    The IntelliFlow is a great pump, I love mine.

    Are you getting the EasyTouch automation panel? You need that in order to set the IntelliChlor output in 1% increments or else you will be limited to just the 20% increments on the IC control pad.

    How big is your pool?
    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    Re: IC40 vs IC60: I could use a little help here.

    When it comes to SWG bigger is better. By getting the IC60 you will not have to run it at as high of a % and it will last longer.
    Bob - Palm Beach by San Juan Pools. approx 5000 gals., Pentair 320 cartridge filter (all new guts installed by me), Goldline SWG, 'New to me' Kreepy Krauly Sand Shark, Intermec 104 Timer Test kit: TF-100 w/Speed Stir

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    Re: IC40 vs IC60: I could use a little help here.

    Matt, again it's 20x40 and 35k. Is the IC-40 not enough?
    20x40 L-shape 35k gallons, Pentair FNS 60 SQFT DE Filter, Pentair Multi-port Valve, Hayward Super Pump w/1 glorious HP, Vinyl Liner, Dolphin Z5, TF-100 w/Speed Stir

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    Re: IC40 vs IC60: I could use a little help here.

    At 35k gallons the IC40 would have to run 24hrs/day to deliver 4.7ppm FC. The IC60 would deliver 6.8ppm FC.

    Given that a clean pool in full sun can lose anywhere between 2-4ppm per day, the IC40 would barely keep up. The IC60 will have to run quite a bit too in order to keep up with the highest demand, but it will do better than the IC40.
    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    Re: IC40 vs IC60: I could use a little help here.

    That is what I thought but he was so adamant about the IC-40. I guess I will have to draw the line.

    I can get the Intelliflow too but I was NOT going to do the EasyTouch as it is adds quite a lot to the bill.

    Are you saying I can't use the IF with the IC by themselves? I would think they would be a good combo even without ET.
    20x40 L-shape 35k gallons, Pentair FNS 60 SQFT DE Filter, Pentair Multi-port Valve, Hayward Super Pump w/1 glorious HP, Vinyl Liner, Dolphin Z5, TF-100 w/Speed Stir

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    Re: IC40 vs IC60: I could use a little help here.

    You can use the IntelliFlow and IC together. My comment was that the IC WITHOUT the EasyTouch panel limits your fine tuning capability as the SWG will only have 0, 20%, 40%, 60%, 80% & 100% output. With an ET panel, you can fine tune the SWG output from 0-100% in 1% increments.
    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    Re: IC40 vs IC60: I could use a little help here.

    Agree 100% that the IC60 is the right SWG for your pool.
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    2012 build and pics, 20k gal gunite, black onyx pebblesheen, OK flagstone, IntellifoVS, cart filter w/Pleatco, IC40 SWG, Solartouch, 5 12'x4' solar panels, HP50HA heat pump, 8mil solar cover, borates, TF-100 test kit, SONOS, Doheny's Discovery Robot, hot tub on bleach

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    Re: IC40 vs IC60: I could use a little help here.

    Quote Originally Posted by JoyfulNoise View Post
    You can use the IntelliFlow and IC together. My comment was that the IC WITHOUT the EasyTouch panel limits your fine tuning capability as the SWG will only have 0, 20%, 40%, 60%, 80% & 100% output. With an ET panel, you can fine tune the SWG output from 0-100% in 1% increments.
    What's the downside of sticking with my Hayward? My only thought is that without the EasyTouch I haven no idea how this all works.

    How does the IntelliFlow and IntelliChlor work in tandem without the control box? That's my main concern. I just read both user manuals and it is not clear to me how they operate together and get the most efficiency out of the IntelliChlor. And for that matter, I'm not sure what mode I would use with the IC.

    I mean I would want a world where I can turn off the pump and have the IC60 automatically stop generating chlorine. I'd also want a world where I can keep the pump running but turn off the IC60 (during say an emergency SLAM, perhaps I can manually move the IC60 to 0% or something like that). How does this work?

    Sorry for the barrage of questions but I don't know who else to ask! I did do some searching and came up with a few interesting threads but nothing really cohesive.
    20x40 L-shape 35k gallons, Pentair FNS 60 SQFT DE Filter, Pentair Multi-port Valve, Hayward Super Pump w/1 glorious HP, Vinyl Liner, Dolphin Z5, TF-100 w/Speed Stir

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    Re: IC40 vs IC60: I could use a little help here.

    For what's it's worth, My IC-60 runs 10hrs. per day @ 100% right now and my pool is 30k gallons.
    35,000 Gal. - 40x20x8 - Plaster - SWG Pentair IC 60 - Barracuda G3 Vacuum - Hayward c1750 Cartridge Filter - Blue Torrent VS 1.5hp pump - Pool is 45 years old.

    "I'd build a deck over my pool if I didn't have a SWG"

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    Re: IC40 vs IC60: I could use a little help here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Philo View Post
    For what's it's worth, My IC-60 runs 10hrs. per day @ 100% right now and my pool is 30k gallons.
    Philo, you are my hero for responding! 100% for 10 hours a day....my guess is I would need 12 hours a day.

    How do you like the IC-60 with your Hayward? I am thinking of going with the IF but I'm a little bit troubled on how this will all work together.
    20x40 L-shape 35k gallons, Pentair FNS 60 SQFT DE Filter, Pentair Multi-port Valve, Hayward Super Pump w/1 glorious HP, Vinyl Liner, Dolphin Z5, TF-100 w/Speed Stir

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    Re: IC40 vs IC60: I could use a little help here.

    Quote Originally Posted by pisymbol View Post
    Philo, you are my hero for responding! 100% for 10 hours a day....my guess is I would need 12 hours a day.

    How do you like the IC-60 with your Hayward? I am thinking of going with the IF but I'm a little bit troubled on how this will all work together.
    I'm not sure where your concern here is? The IntelliFlow and IntelliChlor will work fine together. If you have no automation system (EasyTouch), then you simply follow the wiring diagram on page 34 of the IntelliChlor User Guide. The IntelliChlor power supply and IntelliFlow are wired to the load side of a mechanical timer so that the IC can never be powered on unless the pump is running. You will have to control the IC output using pump runtime as your main variable. So, in that case, I would just set the IC to 80% or 100% and then set your IF runtimes to get the FC level you want. You can use the on-board controls of the IF to fine-tune the pump speed and have multiple speeds and runtimes for different functions - one speed for generating chlorine, another slower speed to just run the skimmer, a high speed for vacuuming.

    The downside is this - because you don't have an EasyTouch automation panel, you can't access some of the more complex automation features. For me, I have the standard POOL circuit setup so that it runs my pump at a speed that generates chlorine and will make the suction side cleaner go. I also have a Feature Circuit which runs a Slow Skimmer program or my spa Spillway but, because it's a feature circuit, the IntelliChlor is not activated. Without an EasyTouch automation panel, you don't get to do those kinds of things. You'll have to rely on the pump speed alone to activate or deactivate the flow switch inside the IC to determine when chlorine is produced and when it is not produced.

    The only difference a Hayward Aquarite would make is that the AQR will allow you to fine adjust the SWG from 0-100% in 1% increments. Other than that, there's no difference.
    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    Re: IC40 vs IC60: I could use a little help here.

    Quote Originally Posted by pisymbol View Post
    Philo, you are my hero for responding! 100% for 10 hours a day....my guess is I would need 12 hours a day.

    How do you like the IC-60 with your Hayward? I am thinking of going with the IF but I'm a little bit troubled on how this will all work together.
    I used the Pentair transformer not Hayward. I always keep the SWG at 100% and adjust the Intermatic Pump/Filter Timer to control the SWG output.
    Winter 4hrs.
    Spring and Fall 10hrs
    Summer 15hrs.
    35,000 Gal. - 40x20x8 - Plaster - SWG Pentair IC 60 - Barracuda G3 Vacuum - Hayward c1750 Cartridge Filter - Blue Torrent VS 1.5hp pump - Pool is 45 years old.

    "I'd build a deck over my pool if I didn't have a SWG"

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    Re: IC40 vs IC60: I could use a little help here.

    Quote Originally Posted by JoyfulNoise View Post
    I'm not sure where your concern here is? The IntelliFlow and IntelliChlor will work fine together. If you have no automation system (EasyTouch), then you simply follow the wiring diagram on page 34 of the IntelliChlor User Guide. The IntelliChlor power supply and IntelliFlow are wired to the load side of a mechanical timer so that the IC can never be powered on unless the pump is running. You will have to control the IC output using pump runtime as your main variable. So, in that case, I would just set the IC to 80% or 100% and then set your IF runtimes to get the FC level you want. You can use the on-board controls of the IF to fine-tune the pump speed and have multiple speeds and runtimes for different functions - one speed for generating chlorine, another slower speed to just run the skimmer, a high speed for vacuuming.
    So they will be wired together so when the IF is on, so is the IC. Gotcha.

    But then I will have to program the IC based on how I program the IF so the IC sees flow during chlorine generation. Is that correct?

    After that is done, I can change the IC in 20% increments only but that might be good enough (sounds like I will set it to 80%).

    So when you say one speed for generating chlorine versus another slower speed to just run the skimmer, are you relying on the flow sensor in the IC to detect when there is enough flow to add chlorine? Is that it? Oh wait, that is IT based on below.

    The downside is this - because you don't have an EasyTouch automation panel, you can't access some of the more complex automation features. For me, I have the standard POOL circuit setup so that it runs my pump at a speed that generates chlorine and will make the suction side cleaner go. I also have a Feature Circuit which runs a Slow Skimmer program or my spa Spillway but, because it's a feature circuit, the IntelliChlor is not activated. Without an EasyTouch automation panel, you don't get to do those kinds of things. You'll have to rely on the pump speed alone to activate or deactivate the flow switch inside the IC to determine when chlorine is produced and when it is not produced.

    The only difference a Hayward Aquarite would make is that the AQR will allow you to fine adjust the SWG from 0-100% in 1% increments. Other than that, there's no difference.
    But it sounds like the IF would be a good choice with an IC-60.

    How hard is it to get this up and running for a SWG n00b?

    EDIT: Read the manual. Looks kinda easy actually. Only question I have is how much flow do I need to activate the IC-60's flow sensor? Like how do you figure out length and speed with this? i.e. how long to I have to run at full speed or "high" speed vs low speed?

    Btw JoyfulNoise is this the pump you have?
    20x40 L-shape 35k gallons, Pentair FNS 60 SQFT DE Filter, Pentair Multi-port Valve, Hayward Super Pump w/1 glorious HP, Vinyl Liner, Dolphin Z5, TF-100 w/Speed Stir

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    Re: IC40 vs IC60: I could use a little help here.

    I personally will not trust just the flow sensor to control whether the pump is on or off. If something goes wrong, you could have big trouble.
    Built in 1957 44,000 gallon in-ground, Wet Edge Primera Stone in Sky Blue, Intelliflo VF Pump, 600 lb. Pentair Triton II TR-100 Sand Filter, CircuPool RG 60 Plus SWG, TF-100 test kit
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    Re: IC40 vs IC60: I could use a little help here.

    I agree with advice to go with the IC60 if you stick with Pentair for your SWG. Like everyone else said, you don't have as much control to truly "dial in" for your chlorine needs, unless you pay the extra money for automation. For me, I am buying into the TFP way of doing things because I want control over my pool with as low of a cost as possible. It suits my circumstances. For others, automation may fit their situation better.

    I am am building a 35,000 pool and been researching for months. Based on reading here, other forum reviews and advice from TFP experienced members, I chose to go with the Pentair Superflo 1.5HP variable speed pump, a Pentair Triton Ii sand filter (30") with a 100 gpm flow rate and a Circupool RJ60 Plus SWG. I chose the Circupool based upon several users with 33K - 42K pools that have used them for a year or more liking them. The known issues which over time are getting better are issues with the cell housing cracking and leaking water and possibly blowing fuses. I weighed that against the known issues for Intelllichlor and AquaRite (which all companies have issues of some
    kind) and the cost and lifespan of cell replacements. The Circupool seems like a good fit for me.

    -Mickey

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    IC40 vs IC60: I could use a little help here.

    Quote Originally Posted by pisymbol View Post

    EDIT: Read the manual. Looks kinda easy actually. Only question I have is how much flow do I need to activate the IC-60's flow sensor? Like how do you figure out length and speed with this? i.e. how long to I have to run at full speed or "high" speed vs low speed?

    Btw JoyfulNoise is this the pump you have?
    No. That's the variable FLOW pump. I have the variable SPEED (think RPMs) pump.

    I don't know the exact flow spec for the SWG off hand. Perhaps others do but it's usually pretty low.

    Also, the IntelliChlor's chlorine output is INDEPENDENT of flow rate. An IC60 generates 2lbs of chlorine gas per day FULL STOP. It doesn't matter if your flowing water just above the cutoff flow rate or at the highest speed possible.
    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    Re: IC40 vs IC60: I could use a little help here.

    Quote Originally Posted by RobbieH View Post
    I personally will not trust just the flow sensor to control whether the pump is on or off. If something goes wrong, you could have big trouble.
    You misunderstood me. I'm talking about whether the SWG is creating or making chlorine. But JoyfulNoise answered me that it makes chlorine regardless of flow. I did not know that - I had that SWGs require a certain level of flow to activate.
    20x40 L-shape 35k gallons, Pentair FNS 60 SQFT DE Filter, Pentair Multi-port Valve, Hayward Super Pump w/1 glorious HP, Vinyl Liner, Dolphin Z5, TF-100 w/Speed Stir

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