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Thread: Considering the switch to SWG... some questions.

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    Considering the switch to SWG... some questions.

    Hello,

    First off I have an AG pool (18' x 48" Summer Waves just bought last week). Last year we had another AG pool (the liner ended up tearing so we bought a new pool). My son had some skin issues when swimming and we believe it was related to the chlorine. So we've been looking at getting a Salt water filter.

    I talked to my friend who has a Salt Water filter and he told me that in Michigan the salt ionizer does not work as well because it doesn't get hot enough.

    I'm very new to this so I'm wondering if there are other types of Salt water filter that don't use the ionizer? I found one on Amazon that has E.C.O. (Electrocatalytic Oxidation) is that the same thing?

    Also, I know I will need another filter along with the SWG, would it be OK to use a cartridge filter or would you suggest a Sand filter?

    Thanks for all your help.
    7600 gallons AG. Hayward Sand filter. Taylor k-2006.

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    JoyfulNoise's Avatar
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    Re: Considering the switch to SWG... some questions.

    With all due respect to your friend, he is wrong. SWG's will work just fine at any temperature above their cold water cut-off. Now it is true that, in Michigan where you have a short swim season and colder water temps, an SWG may not get as much as use as they do here in the southern AZ desert, but they will still work just the same.

    The other thing to remember is that a salt water pool is a chlorine pool just like a manual dosed bleach pool. The electrochemical cell just converts the chloride ion (Cl-) from salt into chlorine gas which then dissolves in the water to form free chlorine. Many people report "skin issues" with chlorine but, in a properly chlorinated and clean pool, chlorine does not typically cause "skin issues" or "sensitivity". Typically it's the disinfection by-product (DBP's) like combined chloramine (CC) that cause irritations. I have mild eczema on my hands and that issue typically gets better when I swim, not worse. Same for a family member of mine that has psoriasis; the salty pool water and chlorine pool makes it better.

    ECO is not the same thing as an SWG. If you want to get an SWG, look at the major manufacturer like Pentair, Hayward, Jandy, etc. They offer SWG cells in various sizes. You want to choose an SWG cell that is rating for approximately 2X your pool volume so that the cell will last a long time.

    You do NOT need a new pump or filter with an SWG; your cartridge filter will work just fine. Chlorine is only produced when water is flowing through the SWG cell so many people have to run their pumps longer then they normally do when they switch to SWGs. If you have an inefficient, single speed pump, you might want to consider upgrading to a 2-speed or variable speed pump as that will save you a lot on electricity costs.

    Please keep posting questions as they come to you and, when you've narrowed down your choices, lets us know as many people will be willing to help.
    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    Mod Squad JVTrain's Avatar
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    Re: Considering the switch to SWG... some questions.

    Skin issues are more often caused by improper pH than they are chlorine, unless chlorine levels are excessive.

    A salt water pool is still a chlorine pool. The salt is converted to chlorine in the salt water chlorine generator. It's true that SWGs do not function below a certain temperature. It varies by manufacturer but usually between 50 and 60 degrees F. All SWGs use a cell to ionize sodium chloride into chlorine.

    If you're looking at the Intex SWG models, go with the one rated for a 15000 gallon pool. You won't have to run the pump as long to achieve the same sanitation (FC levels). Amazon.com : Intex 120V Krystal Clear Saltwater System CG-28669 with E.C.O. (Electrocatalytic Oxidation) for Above Ground Pools : Patio, Lawn Garden

    The Intex cartridge filters aren't historically the best. They are way undersized and underpowered with the pumps they come with to run your SWG. Look at the 2800 or 3000 GPH models of pump/sand filter combos.
    Joel - TFP Moderator - Minnesota - **Become a TFP Supporter!** Helpful Links: ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry - SLAM Procedure - Chlorine/CYA Chart
    40x20 Pool: 32K Gallons * Vinyl * Bleach Chlorination * Hayward S270T Sand Filter * Pentair SuperFlo 1 HP * Teledyne/Laars Heater * AquaVac Tigershark * TF-100 w/ SpeedStir
    Isolated Spa - 345 Gallons

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    Re: Considering the switch to SWG... some questions.

    I would suggest you give us a set of pool chemical readings.

    It's not common for a pool in proper chemical ranges to have adverse effects of swimmers.

    You seem to have two issues: skin rashes and the desire to supply the same chlorine from two different sources - liquid or powder, or a salt water chlorine generator.
    SWG: CircuPool (May 2014) SI30+Plus; 3000ppm seems ideal;
    My Ideal Specs:
    FC 5; PH 7.4-7.6; TA 90; CH 350; CYA 75; = SI ~ 0.19
    14,000 gal, in ground, plaster, Cartridge filter, Borates
    TAYLOR K - 2006

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    Re: Considering the switch to SWG... some questions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuckiechan View Post
    I would suggest you give us a set of pool chemical readings.

    It's not common for a pool in proper chemical ranges to have adverse effects of swimmers.

    You seem to have two issues: skin rashes and the desire to supply the same chlorine from two different sources - liquid or powder, or a salt water chlorine generator.

    I have not opened the pool up yet so I haven't gotten a chance to get any chemical readings. But I will send some as soon as I can.

    It's not just the skin rashes that caused us to start thinking about SWG. My wife stays home with the kids and is typically very busy during the day and I work all day so we were looking for something a little more simple for keeping the water clear. I thought the SWG would be a nice simple solution. Because we live in Michigan our pool is open for about 3 months a year and our pool isn't the biggest or most expensive. We just want to have some water fun on hot days (if those ever come here haha!).

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by JVTrain View Post
    Skin issues are more often caused by improper pH than they are chlorine, unless chlorine levels are excessive.

    A salt water pool is still a chlorine pool. The salt is converted to chlorine in the salt water chlorine generator. It's true that SWGs do not function below a certain temperature. It varies by manufacturer but usually between 50 and 60 degrees F. All SWGs use a cell to ionize sodium chloride into chlorine.

    If you're looking at the Intex SWG models, go with the one rated for a 15000 gallon pool. You won't have to run the pump as long to achieve the same sanitation (FC levels). Amazon.com : Intex 120V Krystal Clear Saltwater System CG-28669 with E.C.O. (Electrocatalytic Oxidation) for Above Ground Pools : Patio, Lawn Garden

    The Intex cartridge filters aren't historically the best. They are way undersized and underpowered with the pumps they come with to run your SWG. Look at the 2800 or 3000 GPH models of pump/sand filter combos.

    So you're saying something like this would not be enough? Amazon.com : Intex Krystal Clear Cartridge Filter Pump for Above Ground Pools, 2500 GPH Pump Flow Rate, 110-120V with GFCI : Swimming Pool Water Pumps : Patio, Lawn Garden

    Because our pool is only open a few months of the year, we aren't looking to break the bank when it comes to a new filter.
    7600 gallons AG. Hayward Sand filter. Taylor k-2006.

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    Pool Tool's Avatar
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    Re: Considering the switch to SWG... some questions.

    You have a good plan, the SWG can certainly make maintenance easier. We are just trying to correct some of the rumors and help you set realistic expectations. unfortunately there is a lot of bad information out there. I am starting to give up hope on the warm weather myself.
    16' x 32' (21100 gal), vinyl, 1.5 hp Hayward SuperPump,
    Tagelus TA60/60D Sand Filter, Raypak 399K Digital Heater, TF-100

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    Mod Squad JVTrain's Avatar
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    Re: Considering the switch to SWG... some questions.

    The pump you listed there would work OK but those cartridge filters are garbage. They're sized about right for a 400 gallon hot tub, not a 7500 gallon pool. If you want a simple, one package solution, I'd go with this: Amazon.com : Intex 120V Krystal Clear Sand Filter Pump Garden Has the pump, filter and pseudo-SWG in one. If you're going to keep this pool for several years, I'd look at investing in a better set up as Matt suggested. Intex equipment works alright but is generally somewhat "disposable" by nature.
    Joel - TFP Moderator - Minnesota - **Become a TFP Supporter!** Helpful Links: ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry - SLAM Procedure - Chlorine/CYA Chart
    40x20 Pool: 32K Gallons * Vinyl * Bleach Chlorination * Hayward S270T Sand Filter * Pentair SuperFlo 1 HP * Teledyne/Laars Heater * AquaVac Tigershark * TF-100 w/ SpeedStir
    Isolated Spa - 345 Gallons

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    Re: Considering the switch to SWG... some questions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pool Tool View Post
    You have a good plan, the SWG can certainly make maintenance easier. We are just trying to correct some of the rumors and help you set realistic expectations. unfortunately there is a lot of bad information out there. I am starting to give up hope on the warm weather myself.

    Everyone, thanks so much for you input. After reading your posts and other articles about SWG, I think for right now I'm going to stick with a sand filter. The current sand filter I have was a used one I got that hasn't worked very well so I think I'm going to buy this Amazon.com : Intex Krystal Clear Sand Filter Pump for Above Ground Pools, 3000 GPH Pump Flow Rate, 110-120V with GFCI : Swimming Pool Sand Filters : Patio, Lawn Garden

    I'm going to try to get some chemical readings the first couple weeks and do a much better job of keeping my levels where they need to be (I bought a good kit last year, based on the recommendation of this site.) I can always add a SWG later if I really need to.

    You all have been very kind and encouraging.

    Thanks again!
    7600 gallons AG. Hayward Sand filter. Taylor k-2006.

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    Piolin's Avatar
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    Re: Considering the switch to SWG... some questions.

    Good choice for the pool that you have, pair that whit the SWG with the E. C. O. system and you will have the same setup that I have, I am very happy with it and no breaking the bank... 😊
    8,400 gal Intex, 3K GPH pump, 16" sand filter, SWG CG-28669, TF100 test kit, speed stir, K-1766 Taylor salt test.

    The corner stone of TFP
    Pool School - Chlorine / CYA Chart

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    Piolin's Avatar
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    Re: Considering the switch to SWG... some questions.

    8,400 gal Intex, 3K GPH pump, 16" sand filter, SWG CG-28669, TF100 test kit, speed stir, K-1766 Taylor salt test.

    The corner stone of TFP
    Pool School - Chlorine / CYA Chart

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    Razorhog's Avatar
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    Re: Considering the switch to SWG... some questions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Newerabs View Post
    Everyone, thanks so much for you input. After reading your posts and other articles about SWG, I think for right now I'm going to stick with a sand filter. The current sand filter I have was a used one I got that hasn't worked very well so I think I'm going to buy this Amazon.com : Intex Krystal Clear Sand Filter Pump for Above Ground Pools, 3000 GPH Pump Flow Rate, 110-120V with GFCI : Swimming Pool Sand Filters : Patio, Lawn Garden

    I'm going to try to get some chemical readings the first couple weeks and do a much better job of keeping my levels where they need to be (I bought a good kit last year, based on the recommendation of this site.) I can always add a SWG later if I really need to.

    You all have been very kind and encouraging.

    Thanks again!
    Just to clarify - a SWG does not filter the water, it makes chlorine out of salt. Filtering is separate.
    SLAM * Chlorine/CYA Chart * Pool Math * Pool School
    17.5k gal IG Fiberglass, Triton II TR60 Sand Filter, Jacuzzi Magum Force Pump 1.5 hp, 3/4 hp booster, Polaris 280, TF-100 Test Kit with Speed Stir

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