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Thread: New pump/motor, need help wiring.

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    New pump/motor, need help wiring.

    OK, I bought a new to me pump. upgraded the old 3/4hp to 1.5hp self priming max-e-pro xf. The motor label said 230V, and old motor had 2 Black and a green so I figured update the wires and I'm golden. Well, the pump ran fantastic. I was impressed with the power of the pump on the return lines... for 5 minutes. Did some reading and it sounds like my 230V hookup is actually a 115V.





    New owner of old pool
    30K GAL, IG plaster, max-e-pro xf 1.5hp motor with 3/4hp booster,
    Triton FNS Plus 60 D.E. filter, sweeper out of commission, built 8-1989

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: New pump/motor, need help wiring.

    Those breakers are scary. Mine was 230v with split (incorrect) beakers like that.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
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    Re: New pump/motor, need help wiring.

    Here is a picture of the breaker and the wires.

    New owner of old pool
    30K GAL, IG plaster, max-e-pro xf 1.5hp motor with 3/4hp booster,
    Triton FNS Plus 60 D.E. filter, sweeper out of commission, built 8-1989

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: New pump/motor, need help wiring.

    Now where do the wires actually go? Might need to measure with a multimeter at the pool timer.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
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    Re: New pump/motor, need help wiring.

    Wire in conduit really has no color coding to it other than green is ground. You can assume it's the same as the romex wire inside the house. You need to check how it is wired at its source and verify voltage with a meter if you are unsure.
    Chuck-
    15x30 Above ground, Pentair Superflo VS, 19" sand filter, TF-100 test kit
    Aqua Comfort ACT750 heat pump / 6x20 ground mount solar panel / DIY automation

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    Re: New pump/motor, need help wiring.

    Those tandem breakers are not 240 breakers (per slot). There could still be 240 coming from two of them though. If so, you need to get someone in there with some electrical knowledge as if they are pulling 240 from those it is way wrong code wise. Tandem breakers only use one slot on the bus to derive twin 120 circuits that will not provide 240 they are not double pole breakers which is what is needed to provide 240.

    It is entirely possible that those breakers are not even rated to be in that box in that position or in there at all. The label on the box will tell you if and where they should be.
    Unknown make 18' above ground (bought used in 1999) Sparco sand filter. Hayward 100,000 BTu heater. 2 speed pump

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    Re: New pump/motor, need help wiring.

    I got new pictures of the wiring and bought a volt meter. here goes:

    This is the timer box. Both black wires tested 120. The white and the yellow wires go into an outlet on the side
    of the box that is non-functional, then it appears they go back underground to I don't know where.



    These are all 5 wires coming into the breaker box.



    This, I think, is where my problem is. Starting at the yellow wire and working down, it goes to:
    Y=outlet, then I don't know,
    B=L1 or L2
    B=L1 or L2
    B=Pool light switch



    I'm thinking I should have both L1 and L2 on the same breaker, making it an actual 220 breaker, then put the light and outlet on the bottom breaker. I believe I have room to move the breakers up 1 slot to make room for the 220 breaker. Am I on the right path?
    New owner of old pool
    30K GAL, IG plaster, max-e-pro xf 1.5hp motor with 3/4hp booster,
    Triton FNS Plus 60 D.E. filter, sweeper out of commission, built 8-1989

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: New pump/motor, need help wiring.

    Your last paragraph is almost right. L1 and L2 breakers should be tied together, but you can not just move one of the wires because then they would be on the same phase.
    You can either get a bar that snaps on to the existing L1 and L2 breakers to tie them together, or go buy one 220V breaker that would almost look like the 2 you have but the middle 2 would be tied together ... I have seen these at Home Depot and Lowes.

    Of course this is ignore whether code even allows those tandem-type breakers in your panel. The panel may not be rated for that many circuits.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
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    Re: New pump/motor, need help wiring.

    I.... am at a loss for words. I didn't see those pictures earlier because I was at work. Dual breakers being up to code aside. Get a proper 2 pole 20 amp breaker and put it where those 2 double breakers are. Hook your pump wires to it. Use one double breaker to replace the 20 amp breaker on top of the picture. Use the other double breaker to replace another 20 amp breaker in the panel like that blue or red one. Not an ideal solution but it's much safer than the one you currently have
    Chuck-
    15x30 Above ground, Pentair Superflo VS, 19" sand filter, TF-100 test kit
    Aqua Comfort ACT750 heat pump / 6x20 ground mount solar panel / DIY automation

    Photos of 2016 Build, Inside Your Breaker Panel, Free Copy of 2017 NEC code
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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: New pump/motor, need help wiring.

    Don't feel bad. I found my house was basically the same setup. Except the 230V (on split breakers) supplied a "subpanel" by the pool made up of the round fuses which fed the pump through 2 separate fuses. Another fuse for the light (no GFCI anywhere) and one fuse for who know what (I think an old waterfall pump that was removed).

    Now put a real 230V breaker at the house. I have a real subpanel at the pad in my Pro-Logic. And added a GFCI outlet which supplies the power to my light.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
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    Re: New pump/motor, need help wiring.

    Got it running, for now. I will buy a 220v breaker and replace as CJADAMEC suggested. I think I'll need to run new wires for the booster, that is the only difference from when the pump overheated. It has been running solo for about 6 hrs so far.
    New owner of old pool
    30K GAL, IG plaster, max-e-pro xf 1.5hp motor with 3/4hp booster,
    Triton FNS Plus 60 D.E. filter, sweeper out of commission, built 8-1989

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: New pump/motor, need help wiring.

    If you were trying to run both, it could have pulled too many amps and lowered the voltage causing the motor to overheat.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
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    TFP Guide

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    Re: New pump/motor, need help wiring.

    The ideal and unfortunately most expensive solution for you would be to run new heavy gauge feeder circuit out to a new subpanel by the pool. That keeps you from having to find any more extra space in that already crowded panel. As for the discussion on using the double breakers here is a good article that explains a few things.
    http://www.ashireporter.org/homeinsp...-breakers/2047
    Chuck-
    15x30 Above ground, Pentair Superflo VS, 19" sand filter, TF-100 test kit
    Aqua Comfort ACT750 heat pump / 6x20 ground mount solar panel / DIY automation

    Photos of 2016 Build, Inside Your Breaker Panel, Free Copy of 2017 NEC code
    TFP is funded by member support click here to help

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    Re: New pump/motor, need help wiring.

    Before you start moving breakers around, ensure that there are no multi-wire branch circuit in there. Properly set up a multi-wire uses a single neutral for two hots. Improperly set up it can overload the neutral resulting in a fire. My suggestion is to get an electrician in there and have him install a properly set up sub panel to provide you more room.
    Unknown make 18' above ground (bought used in 1999) Sparco sand filter. Hayward 100,000 BTu heater. 2 speed pump

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    Re: New pump/motor, need help wiring.

    Well at least he doesn't have knob and tube or aluminum wires from the 70's.... Danpik makes a good point tho. A multi wire circuit should only exist if the breaker handles are tied together, either a two pole breaker or two single pole breakers with a tie bar on the handles, but you can never count on an old panel to be wired correctly unless you do you homework. If this is starting to sound confusing getting the opinion of a licensed electrician who can inspect your panel is probably a good way to go.
    Chuck-
    15x30 Above ground, Pentair Superflo VS, 19" sand filter, TF-100 test kit
    Aqua Comfort ACT750 heat pump / 6x20 ground mount solar panel / DIY automation

    Photos of 2016 Build, Inside Your Breaker Panel, Free Copy of 2017 NEC code
    TFP is funded by member support click here to help

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    Re: New pump/motor, need help wiring.

    Thanks for all the info. I believe the exact situation JBlizzle described happened. I agree I need to get an electrician out to look at the current set up. I plan to move the pump and filter this winter out of the middle of the yard, so I may be able to set up a new box then. (I know, I just redid all the plumbing at the current pad). I will get this pool tamed by next summer. I just have to get the rest of the house in line too.
    New owner of old pool
    30K GAL, IG plaster, max-e-pro xf 1.5hp motor with 3/4hp booster,
    Triton FNS Plus 60 D.E. filter, sweeper out of commission, built 8-1989

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    Re: New pump/motor, need help wiring.

    Contacted a friend with electrician connections. Waiting on a reply. In the mean time, I just got brand new grids for my DE filter for free. Good people looking out all around.
    New owner of old pool
    30K GAL, IG plaster, max-e-pro xf 1.5hp motor with 3/4hp booster,
    Triton FNS Plus 60 D.E. filter, sweeper out of commission, built 8-1989

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    Re: New pump/motor, need help wiring.

    Something else that may "muddy the water" a bit. Some electrical code jurisdictions view pools as separate structures and this brings in some code issues. Separate structures are only allowed one circuit to be ran to them from a non connected structure. Usually this is a garage, pool house, garden shed, etc. The single circuit can consist of two hots and one neutral with a separate ground wire. This feeder service will then have a means of disconnect per the NEC be it a service disconnect or a panel with 6 or fewer breakers. A good electrician in your area will know how pools are viewed per the NEC. Oh, by the way, ground wires out to a pool are also required to be insulated.
    Unknown make 18' above ground (bought used in 1999) Sparco sand filter. Hayward 100,000 BTu heater. 2 speed pump

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