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Thread: Any Reason I should not run CYA of 70 with Stenner Pump

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    Any Reason I should not run CYA of 70 with Stenner Pump

    I tried searching and could not find a 100% surefire answer...so here I go.

    Been using TFP method for quite a few years and super loyal to it, and I have not had a green pool in years (well ever, other than wacked out issue a few years ago)

    Anyways....since then I have my Stenner dialed in to add 2 PPM on a average day, and if we are doing heavy swimming or the likes I pump up a bit and monitor daily.

    With that said, SOMEHOW I overshot my target CYA of 50, and ended up at 70. Yes I could drain water, but it is quite a bit of money and I got to thinking, why can't I run with a CYA of 70. Since I am in full sun, I might actually go through LESS BLEACH, and my only risk is that if I somehow forget to fill up the Stenner and then I forget to test and then and then...my SLAM protocol would call for a higher FC then if I lowered CYA to 50.

    Any reason this is not solid thinking....I assume CYA can go higher with SWG because of the consistency of dosing, but I have the same consistency...so assume I am good to go as well.

    Can one of the experts just confirm to make me feel better

    Thanks!
    14,750 GAL IG Fiberglass (16 x 33) NE Ohio || Jandy 1HP 2 speed Pump || Waterco MultiCyclone 16 Centrifugal pre-filter (removed due to not working with sand filter) || 30" 575 Lb. Sand Filter || AquaCal 140K BTU Heat Pump || Solar Cover || Inter-fab Adrenaline Slide || GLI Monsoon Solar Cover Reel || K-2006C Test Kit || BBB with Liquid Chlorine Stenner Injection || Rayner Mighty Mesh Winter Cover

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    Re: Any Reason I should not run CYA of 70 with Stenner Pump

    Any pool can be run as a high CYA pool. The benefits of high CYA is that it can substantially lower daily FC loss due to high sun exposure. The downside is that an algae bloom requires more FC (the SLAM FC/CYA ratio is 40%).

    But, even that "downside" isn't that bad and one could probably use s 20% ratio and do just fine in clearing cloudy water. Why? Because most TFP'ers are very diligent people and would notice cloudy water almost instantly and deal with it. So any algae bloom would really never be much of a bloom. It's only the thick, black & green swamps that truly need a 40% FC/CYA ratio for SLAM purposes.

    Believe it or not, you can actually manage a pool all the way up to 100ppm CYA quite easily, it just takes diligence. It less practical for folks that manually chlorinate. But for anyone with an automated dosing system, high CYA is easily managed because automatic dosing means more consistent FC levels (no extreme dips).
    Matt
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    Re: Any Reason I should not run CYA of 70 with Stenner Pump

    Quote Originally Posted by JoyfulNoise View Post
    Believe it or not, you can actually manage a pool all the way up to 100ppm CYA quite easily, it just takes diligence. It less practical for folks that manually chlorinate.
    Why is it anymore less practical than manually chlorinating with a cya of 40? Aren't you just replacing the normal 2 to 3 ppm daily loss in both cases?
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    Re: Any Reason I should not run CYA of 70 with Stenner Pump

    Quote Originally Posted by laprjns View Post
    Why is it anymore less practical than manually chlorinating with a cya of 40? Aren't you just replacing the normal 2 to 3 ppm daily loss in both cases?
    Great question, it is because a SWG and stenner are working and chlorinating about 6 hours a day up to 24 hours a day.. in other words, you would have to manually add small amounts of bleach over many hours during the day/night to do the same thing...
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    Re: Any Reason I should not run CYA of 70 with Stenner Pump

    Quote Originally Posted by laprjns View Post
    Why is it anymore less practical than manually chlorinating with a cya of 40? Aren't you just replacing the normal 2 to 3 ppm daily loss in both cases?
    Quote Originally Posted by cowboycasey View Post
    Great question, it is because a SWG and stenner are working and chlorinating about 6 hours a day up to 24 hours a day.. in other words, you would have to manually add small amounts of bleach over many hours during the day/night to do the same thing...
    Also, being human, life happens and we either forget to dose of do so inconsistently. This allows the FC to drop and creates more of a chance that algae might get a foothold and high CYA just makes it harder to fix.

    As I said, most TFP'ers would be diligent enough to spot a problem well before it ever becomes a truly bad issue.
    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    Re: Any Reason I should not run CYA of 70 with Stenner Pump

    Any pool can be run as a high CYA pool.
    Yes, but I am not confidant that statement applies to ALL pool operators.

    Many of our newer members don't have the principles grasped here yet. I believe we should not encourage high CYA pools because they can be so-o-o troublesome for many.
    Dave S.
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    Re: Any Reason I should not run CYA of 70 with Stenner Pump

    Hey gang....thanks for all the affirmations that I should have no issues, other than if I royally screw up.

    The ONLY BIT that I am not clear on...though is the comment about dosing.

    Meaning does not a HIGHER CYA in theory consume less Chlorine daily (albeit ever so slight) - but the RISK OF High CYA is slipping up and then thus the HIGHER SLAM LEVEL.

    The reason a SWG can run higher is simply because it is more consistent and thus less risky to screw up and need to SLAM (but as mentioned above, higher CYA allows slightly less consumption of FC) The continual dosing really doesn't matter per say...
    14,750 GAL IG Fiberglass (16 x 33) NE Ohio || Jandy 1HP 2 speed Pump || Waterco MultiCyclone 16 Centrifugal pre-filter (removed due to not working with sand filter) || 30" 575 Lb. Sand Filter || AquaCal 140K BTU Heat Pump || Solar Cover || Inter-fab Adrenaline Slide || GLI Monsoon Solar Cover Reel || K-2006C Test Kit || BBB with Liquid Chlorine Stenner Injection || Rayner Mighty Mesh Winter Cover

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    Re: Any Reason I should not run CYA of 70 with Stenner Pump

    Yes. With an SWG you want to run it as little as possible to extend the cell life for as long as possible. For a bleach dosing system like a Stenner pump, you don't really care how long the dosing pump runs for since the only downside to using more bleach is having to haul bleach bottles to the tank for fill up.

    I doubt you will have algae blooms. Once you learn the ways of you pool and use the TFP method, the guilt & shame of letting your water get even a tiny bit cloudy is more than enough motivation for most
    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    Re: Any Reason I should not run CYA of 70 with Stenner Pump

    Quote Originally Posted by JoyfulNoise View Post
    Yes. With an SWG you want to run it as little as possible to extend the cell life for as long as possible. For a bleach dosing system like a Stenner pump, you don't really care how long the dosing pump runs for since the only downside to using more bleach is having to haul bleach bottles to the tank for fill up.

    I doubt you will have algae blooms. Once you learn the ways of you pool and use the TFP method, the guilt & shame of letting your water get even a tiny bit cloudy is more than enough motivation for most
    So ok then, hauling bleach is not fun, so in theory a Automated bleaching system could run similar CYA Targets as a SWG, just wonder if we should make that more obvious
    14,750 GAL IG Fiberglass (16 x 33) NE Ohio || Jandy 1HP 2 speed Pump || Waterco MultiCyclone 16 Centrifugal pre-filter (removed due to not working with sand filter) || 30" 575 Lb. Sand Filter || AquaCal 140K BTU Heat Pump || Solar Cover || Inter-fab Adrenaline Slide || GLI Monsoon Solar Cover Reel || K-2006C Test Kit || BBB with Liquid Chlorine Stenner Injection || Rayner Mighty Mesh Winter Cover

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    Re: Any Reason I should not run CYA of 70 with Stenner Pump

    just wonder if we should make that more obvious
    I don't think so. It is very important that TFP teach basic pool management.

    Suggesting to someone that they need an swg so they don't have to lug bleach is not our call. As experience grows, the newer members begin to make decision like that on their own.
    Dave S.
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    Re: Any Reason I should not run CYA of 70 with Stenner Pump

    Quote Originally Posted by duraleigh View Post
    I don't think so. It is very important that TFP teach basic pool management.

    Suggesting to someone that they need an swg so they don't have to lug bleach is not our call. As experience grows, the newer members begin to make decision like that on their own.
    yep fair enough...totally get that angle.
    14,750 GAL IG Fiberglass (16 x 33) NE Ohio || Jandy 1HP 2 speed Pump || Waterco MultiCyclone 16 Centrifugal pre-filter (removed due to not working with sand filter) || 30" 575 Lb. Sand Filter || AquaCal 140K BTU Heat Pump || Solar Cover || Inter-fab Adrenaline Slide || GLI Monsoon Solar Cover Reel || K-2006C Test Kit || BBB with Liquid Chlorine Stenner Injection || Rayner Mighty Mesh Winter Cover

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    Re: Any Reason I should not run CYA of 70 with Stenner Pump

    Quote Originally Posted by JoyfulNoise View Post
    The downside is that an algae bloom requires more FC (the SLAM FC/CYA ratio is 40%).

    But, even that "downside" isn't that bad and one could probably use s 20% ratio and do just fine in clearing cloudy water. Why? Because most TFP'ers are very diligent people and would notice cloudy water almost instantly and deal with it. So any algae bloom would really never be much of a bloom. It's only the thick, black & green swamps that truly need a 40% FC/CYA ratio for SLAM purposes.
    Good afternoon....so to follow up on this....if my water is super clear, but a bit cloudy and I am trying to eliminate all variables...do we think (and agree) that a 20% FC Ratio above baseline would work. So that means for me, if 28PPM is SLAM for the black swamp monster, but I am PERHAPS fighting a hidden monster, that a dosing of 20% over ratio which I need to figure out, but perhaps 14 PPM would actually help ?

    This is my slightly not as clear as I want monster that I am not sure if I have a invisible algae or filter issues (treating with DE as we speak)

    14,750 GAL IG Fiberglass (16 x 33) NE Ohio || Jandy 1HP 2 speed Pump || Waterco MultiCyclone 16 Centrifugal pre-filter (removed due to not working with sand filter) || 30" 575 Lb. Sand Filter || AquaCal 140K BTU Heat Pump || Solar Cover || Inter-fab Adrenaline Slide || GLI Monsoon Solar Cover Reel || K-2006C Test Kit || BBB with Liquid Chlorine Stenner Injection || Rayner Mighty Mesh Winter Cover

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    Re: Any Reason I should not run CYA of 70 with Stenner Pump

    Perform an OCLT first to see what your loss is from. Cloudiness is sometimes a chemical issue (algae) but in other circumstances could be a filtration issue. An OCLT will let you know.

    If it's a chemical issue, then using the prescribed shock level will clear it up fast. I once had cloudy water many years ago and did a SLAM. I literally passed the SLAM exit criteria the next day. Would 20% have worked...maybe. But it probably would have taken longer.

    Stick to best practices. If the OCLT indicates a SLAM, then use the standard 40% shock level. In the end, you're not going to save bundles of money by being cheap with the bleach. Of course, you are welcome to treat your pool however you see fit and so if going lower works out in the end, good for you.
    Matt
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    Re: Any Reason I should not run CYA of 70 with Stenner Pump

    I had a 1 PPM OCLT loss last night, but after backwashing with DE, I did see a slight green tinge to the water. Doing another OCLT test tonight....

    FUN FUN!
    14,750 GAL IG Fiberglass (16 x 33) NE Ohio || Jandy 1HP 2 speed Pump || Waterco MultiCyclone 16 Centrifugal pre-filter (removed due to not working with sand filter) || 30" 575 Lb. Sand Filter || AquaCal 140K BTU Heat Pump || Solar Cover || Inter-fab Adrenaline Slide || GLI Monsoon Solar Cover Reel || K-2006C Test Kit || BBB with Liquid Chlorine Stenner Injection || Rayner Mighty Mesh Winter Cover

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    Re: Any Reason I should not run CYA of 70 with Stenner Pump

    Quote Originally Posted by toofast View Post
    I had a 1 PPM OCLT loss last night, but after backwashing with DE, I did see a slight green tinge to the water. Doing another OCLT test tonight....

    FUN FUN!
    Even if you get another 1ppm overnight loss, I would recommend you SLAM and do so at full shock level.
    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    Re: Any Reason I should not run CYA of 70 with Stenner Pump

    Quote Originally Posted by JoyfulNoise View Post
    Even if you get another 1ppm overnight loss, I would recommend you SLAM and do so at full shock level.
    Well last night I did lose 1.5 ppm, so SLAM it is - HOWEVER here is my problem. I am heading out of down for the Weekend tonight....so is there any value in brining up FC to SLAM level and then leaving for the weekend. Or am I better off (and less expensive) to just bump the Stenner a bit to maintain FC levels, and then on Monday (when I will home all week) SLAM away.


    I just hate wasting all the bleach if it really won't do any good...or if it will, then please let me know your thoughts on what is my best course of action.
    14,750 GAL IG Fiberglass (16 x 33) NE Ohio || Jandy 1HP 2 speed Pump || Waterco MultiCyclone 16 Centrifugal pre-filter (removed due to not working with sand filter) || 30" 575 Lb. Sand Filter || AquaCal 140K BTU Heat Pump || Solar Cover || Inter-fab Adrenaline Slide || GLI Monsoon Solar Cover Reel || K-2006C Test Kit || BBB with Liquid Chlorine Stenner Injection || Rayner Mighty Mesh Winter Cover

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    Re: Any Reason I should not run CYA of 70 with Stenner Pump

    Bump the Stenner a little and SLAM when you get back.
    TFP Moderator 39 X 18 23,000(ish) freeform gunite; built 2007ish; Pentair Triton II TR100 600lb Sand filter; 2 HP Pentair pump with 2.2 HP AO Smith single speed motor; 2 skimmers, 1 main drain, 4 returns w/waterfall, Stenner 45MHP2 3GPD running@ 60% - 15 gal Tank; heated by the sun CYA 200+ when I started - 50 now. Dolphin Supreme M5 Pool Cleaner. Hot Springs SX Spa, 285 gallon

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