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Thread: Brand New Pump & Filter, same problem

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    gruney1's Avatar
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    Brand New Pump & Filter, same problem

    16x32 IG Vinyl Pool. I had issues last year with my cartridge filter passing debris back into the pool while vacuuming. I bought new cartridges, but nothing seemed to help. My 3/4HP pump motor was making lots of noise, and sometimes required a smack to get it going, so I just purchased and installed a Hayward 1HP 2-Speed Super pump, along with a new Hayward C1200 cartridge filter. I am having the same problems with the new setup. Every time I try to vacuum the dead algae off the bottom, it just gets blown back into the pool again. Am I doing something wrong? Is it possible to add some D.E. to my cartridge filter? Any help would be appreciated.
    Thanks, Ken.
    16'x32' Inground Vinyl Pool
    Hayward C1200 Cartridge Filter
    Hayward 1HP 2 Speed SuperPump

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    Mod Squad JohnT's Avatar
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    Re: Brand New Pump & Filter, same problem

    Welcome to TFP!

    Are you actually seeing the algae come back through the returns? Vacuuming too quickly can result in a lot of debris being stirred into the water. It then settles to the bottom later.
    TFP Moderator
    20K Gallon 20X36 Vinyl Inground
    Hayward S244T Sand Filter with 1HP Whisperflo Pump. Liquidator C-201 and Solar Heat

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    gruney1's Avatar
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    Re: Brand New Pump & Filter, same problem

    Yes, the algae that has settled to the bottom is pumped back into the pool when I vacuum, causing a cloudy greenish brown mess.
    16'x32' Inground Vinyl Pool
    Hayward C1200 Cartridge Filter
    Hayward 1HP 2 Speed SuperPump

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    spishex's Avatar
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    Re: Brand New Pump & Filter, same problem

    Some stuff is too small even for a cartridge. Do you have a waste line you could vacuum this stuff out with? Is there anything connected to the plumbing between your pump and filter?

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    gruney1's Avatar
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    Re: Brand New Pump & Filter, same problem

    Quote Originally Posted by spishex
    Some stuff is too small even for a cartridge. Do you have a waste line you could vacuum this stuff out with? Is there anything connected to the plumbing between your pump and filter?
    No waste line, and nothing between the pump and filter but 1.5" piping.
    3 questions:

    1. Could I use the filter drain as a waste line, and "vacuum to waste"? It is garden hose size female threads.
    2. Would adding some DE to the filter help, or do some damage?
    3. Would a floc agent help?

    I was really upset after spending almost $1000, just to have the same results. I have even thought of plumbing my old cartridge filter inline before the new one. Whenever I get some progress with the water clearing up, I vacuum all the sediment up and cloud the water again.
    16'x32' Inground Vinyl Pool
    Hayward C1200 Cartridge Filter
    Hayward 1HP 2 Speed SuperPump

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    spishex's Avatar
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    Re: Brand New Pump & Filter, same problem

    You really need a three way valve before the filter to vac to waste. Hooking up to the drain will let some water go to waste but not all and you'll still have the same problem. As far as putting DE in a cart, you'd have to add a lot of DE to cover the entire surface area of the cartridge, and you'd just end up clogging it. That's just my guess. Others may have tried it.

    A floc is used to drop particles down to the bottom of the pool so they can be vacuumed to waste, so you'd still need the waste line. If you just vac'd them into the filter they'd probably separate again, and floc isn't very effective on live algae anyway.

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    gruney1's Avatar
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    Re: Brand New Pump & Filter, same problem

    Thanks for your replies, I will look into plumbing in some type of waste valve into the system.
    16'x32' Inground Vinyl Pool
    Hayward C1200 Cartridge Filter
    Hayward 1HP 2 Speed SuperPump

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    Re: Brand New Pump & Filter, same problem

    No filter will filter out live algae. Dead algae is white (decolorized)btw. If yours is not you have not killed it yet!

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    gruney1's Avatar
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    Re: Brand New Pump & Filter, same problem

    Now that makes sense! I will focus on killing it, then vacuum it out. BTW, why won't the filter catch live algae?
    Thanks for your responses,
    Ken
    16'x32' Inground Vinyl Pool
    Hayward C1200 Cartridge Filter
    Hayward 1HP 2 Speed SuperPump

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    Re: Brand New Pump & Filter, same problem

    I had the same problem with my pool. After going to the pool store and spending lots of $$$ I found this site. I have the exact set-up you do. You will have to install a 3- way before the filter to keep things from going into the filter. If not you will be pulling the filter out every 10 minutes and cleaning it, trust me its a pain.

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    Re: Brand New Pump & Filter, same problem

    Now that makes sense! I will focus on killing it, then vacuum it out. BTW, why won't the filter catch live algae?
    It is a living, reproducing plant and will continue to fluorish in your pool until you kill it.

    Waterbear has you on the right track. If you will solve your pool chemistry issues (lack of chlorine) the algae will be killed and your filter will make your pool sparkling clear.

    If you post a set of test results, it will really help us tell you how to get started. Read the articles in Pool School on Shocking your pool and ABC's of pool water chemistry.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Re: Brand New Pump & Filter, same problem

    Quote Originally Posted by doclaw78
    I had the same problem with my pool. After going to the pool store and spending lots of $$$ I found this site. I have the exact set-up you do. You will have to install a 3- way before the filter to keep things from going into the filter. If not you will be pulling the filter out every 10 minutes and cleaning it, trust me its a pain.
    I have been cleaning my filter cartridge every morning and evening, it is a pain. Do you have any pictures of your setup? I assume you put the 3-way valve between the pump and the filter? What type of valve did you use? Thanks for any help you can give me.

    BTW, the chlorine is now holding steady, and now the dead algae is being slowly filtered out.
    16'x32' Inground Vinyl Pool
    Hayward C1200 Cartridge Filter
    Hayward 1HP 2 Speed SuperPump

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    Re: Brand New Pump & Filter, same problem

    Quote Originally Posted by duraleigh
    Now that makes sense! I will focus on killing it, then vacuum it out. BTW, why won't the filter catch live algae?
    It is a living, reproducing plant and will continue to fluorish in your pool until you kill it.

    Waterbear has you on the right track. If you will solve your pool chemistry issues (lack of chlorine) the algae will be killed and your filter will make your pool sparkling clear.

    If you post a set of test results, it will really help us tell you how to get started. Read the articles in Pool School on Shocking your pool and ABC's of pool water chemistry.
    I ordered the TF100 test kit yesterday, tired of guessing with the Walmart kit, tired of getting results from the pool store. I will post my numbers when I get them. Thanks for the help!
    16'x32' Inground Vinyl Pool
    Hayward C1200 Cartridge Filter
    Hayward 1HP 2 Speed SuperPump

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    gruney1's Avatar
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    Please help with cloudy water

    Just tested my water for the first time with the TF100 kit. The water was clear with dark sediment on the floor when I opened it last weekend, then when I vacuumed it, it has been cloudy since.I think the algae is dead, but it is taking a long time to clear up. I have added a lot of bleach, and the level has been high and holding for about 4 days now. I can not see the bottom yet. Any suggestions would be appreciated, Thanks, Ken
    FC 13
    CC 1
    TC 14
    PH 7.2
    TA 160
    CYA 25
    TEMP 60
    These pictures were taken on 5/13. It is a little more blue now, but not much clearer.



    16'x32' Inground Vinyl Pool
    Hayward C1200 Cartridge Filter
    Hayward 1HP 2 Speed SuperPump

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    Re: Please help with cloudy water

    Hi, Gruney,

    (Will one of the mods consolidate this thread?) Keep all your posts in one thread if it's the same subject. It helps us all understand you "story".

    You are on the right path. Mostly, I think it will simply take some more time.

    1. Keep your FC up right where it is...around 14 or so. You must constantly be adding chlorine to do this.

    2. Keep your filter clean. watch your filter pressure and clean it when the pressure rises by 25%-30% or more.

    3. vacuum as often as you can stand it. There's dead algae on the pool floor and slow, gentle vacuuming will pick it up.

    4. Keep the faith......you're on the right track.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Brand New Pump & Filter, same problem

    If the algae is dead and the filter is working you should be able to see a visible improvement in the water each day. It might still take a week or more for the water to completely clear up. If you can't detect any improvement you should check that you are not losing any FC overnight and that the filter is working properly. Keep an eye on the filter pressure, it should be going up, and clean the filter as needed.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    Re: Please help with cloudy water

    Quote Originally Posted by gruney1
    FC 13
    CC 1
    TC 14
    PH 7.2
    TA 160
    CYA 25
    TEMP 60
    Algae is not dead if you have a CC of 1
    With a CyA of 25 and the amount of sun your pool gets (from the pics) I would say that you are losing a lot of chlorine to sunlight. You need to be putting chlorine in several times a day to keep up the level. I would suggest bumping up the CYA to about 40 ppm and bringing your shock level up t0 20 ppm and KEEP IT THERE until the pool is sparkling clear. It will be if you do this!

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    gruney1's Avatar
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    Re: Brand New Pump & Filter, same problem

    OK, my cc is now 0, and I have been keeping the FC between 17 and 20. It is definitely getting better. I will post some pics later. Adding CYA, brushing, vacuuming, rinsing cartridge. I am hoping by next weekend the kids will be able to swim. The test kit is great! The FC went from 20 to 17.5 overnight, so I guess there is more algae living. Thanks for all the help!!!

    Ken
    16'x32' Inground Vinyl Pool
    Hayward C1200 Cartridge Filter
    Hayward 1HP 2 Speed SuperPump

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    gruney1's Avatar
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    Re: Brand New Pump & Filter, same problem


    16'x32' Inground Vinyl Pool
    Hayward C1200 Cartridge Filter
    Hayward 1HP 2 Speed SuperPump

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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: Brand New Pump & Filter, same problem

    Yep, keep at it and keep that FC up and they'll be swimming in no time.
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

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