Become a TFP Supporter Pool Math Forum Rules Pool School
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 21

Thread: Bonding wire broken at equip pad, urgency?

  1. Back To Top    #1
    threecheese's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Long Island, NY
    Posts
    55

    Bonding wire broken at equip pad, urgency?

    During the winter my bonding wire broke off flush with the concrete equipment pad. I am planning on opening the pool early this season so I can do some work on the plumbing/install new equipment before the summer starts. Is it urgent that I fix the bonding wire before the pool is opened? Nobody will swim until it is fixed, so can it wait until the work is done?

    Maybe someone also has a tip on how I can locate this wire, it is lead (I think, which should make finding it with a magnet impossible) and with all the colored aggregate in the concrete I am having trouble finding it!

    Thank you.
    30kgal in-ground/steel with vinyl liner, aluminum bullnose coping || 1 H.P. superpump || Polaris P9550 robot|| Hayward 48sq ft DE filter || Taylor K2006 kit

  2. Back To Top    #2
    banditig's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    464

    Re: Bonding wire broken at equip pad, urgency?

    It should be non-insulated #8 AWG copper wire.
    15x54 swim & play vinyl metal wall AG
    Hayward S210T sand filter 1.5 HP Pentair Superflo vs
    Rheem raypak 130,000 BTU mv ng
    Jacuzzi 345 whirlpool bath
    TF-100 test kit, HM digital com100 Wanda the Whale

  3. Back To Top    #3
    threecheese's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Long Island, NY
    Posts
    55

    Re: Bonding wire broken at equip pad, urgency?

    Hrm, a 5 second google search tells me that lead isn't very conductive, so it must be corroded 30 yr old copper! Thank you for clarifying. Too bad it's also not/weakly magnetic. ..

  4. Back To Top    #4

    TFP Guide

    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    western NY
    Posts
    1,557

    Re: Bonding wire broken at equip pad, urgency?

    I would dig along side the pad to see if I could find it there and make a new connection point. Copper in concrete is not a good mix
    Unknown make 18' above ground (bought used in 1999) Sparco sand filter. Hayward 100,000 BTu heater. 2 speed pump

  5. Back To Top    #5
    threecheese's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Long Island, NY
    Posts
    55

    Re: Bonding wire broken at equip pad, urgency?

    This is a fantastic idea, I would rather dig than break up the pad and risk cracking pvc.

  6. Back To Top    #6
    threecheese's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Long Island, NY
    Posts
    55

    Joining new bonding wire to one that has broken (in concrete)?

    Hi,

    My IG pool's bonding wire runs through the concrete equipment pad to where it connects to my pump, and it has broken off flush with the pad - I need to join a new wire with the piece still inside the concrete. I will be using an angle grinder and cold chisels to remove the concrete surrounding the wire.

    My question is, what is the best way to join the old and new wires? Is there a fitting I should use that I can re-bury inside concrete that won't decay? Should I just twist them together and be done with it? Am I crazy to think I will be able to expose the wire inside the concrete?

    Thank you!
    30kgal in-ground/steel with vinyl liner, aluminum bullnose coping || 1 H.P. superpump || Polaris P9550 robot|| Hayward 48sq ft DE filter || Taylor K2006 kit

  7. Back To Top    #7
    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Tucson, AZ
    Posts
    37,389

    Re: Bonding wire broken at equip pad, urgency?

    I merged your 2 threads. Please do not start duplicate threads. Thanks, jblizzle

    Did you decide not to dig for some reason as discussed in the previous thread?

    You need to use a split bolt connector rated for direct burial to attach the bonding wires.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
    If you found TFP helpful and we saved you money ... Become a TFP Supporter!

  8. Back To Top    #8

    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    South East USA
    Posts
    77

    Re: Bonding wire broken at equip pad, urgency?

    Quote Originally Posted by threecheese View Post
    Too bad it's also not/weakly magnetic. ..

    Metal detector?

    ft.
    • ~22,000 gallons, freeform, Pebbletec, beach entry • AquaRite SWCG v1.33 • Hayward Tristar SP325EE pump for main draw & skimmer • Hayward sand filter S310S • 1.5 hp booster pump • Paramount PCC2000 in-floor cleaner, skimmer, debris containment canister • Waterfall • Pentair Intellibrite 5g LED light in Pentair stainless wet niche • Jandy Lite2 heater: removed • Auto-fill: deactivated •

  9. Back To Top    #9
    threecheese's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Long Island, NY
    Posts
    55

    Re: Bonding wire broken at equip pad, urgency?

    Quote Originally Posted by jblizzle View Post
    I merged your 2 threads. Please do not start duplicate threads. Thanks, jblizzle

    Did you decide not to dig for some reason as discussed in the previous thread?

    You need to use a split bolt connector rated for direct burial to attach the bonding wires.
    Apologies for the dupe, you have an excellent memory

    I am hoping to not have to dig, as there is a stone walkway that would have to come up along with surrounding grass and crushed rock base, it would be a rather large job. I have no idea where the wire would be, so i may need to dig quite a bit. The pad is hidden behind a fence, so I don't mind defacing it. I appreciate the advice about the connector, that is exactly what I need.
    30kgal in-ground/steel with vinyl liner, aluminum bullnose coping || 1 H.P. superpump || Polaris P9550 robot|| Hayward 48sq ft DE filter || Taylor K2006 kit

  10. Back To Top    #10
    threecheese's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Long Island, NY
    Posts
    55

    Re: Bonding wire broken at equip pad, urgency?

    @jblizzle I have decided that your advice is sound, and I am going to dig! In order to get the new bonding wire to the pump though, I think I would like to cut a groove/channel through the surface of the pad to hold the new wire down so that it's not free floating. I need to hide it somehow, kids etc.. Bad idea?

  11. Back To Top    #11
    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    SouthWest Alabama
    Posts
    22,333

    Re: Bonding wire broken at equip pad, urgency?

    I'm not JB, but to address a couple of things.

    Cutting a channel an inch or so deep in the pad is a good idea and you can fill it with either hydraulic cement or epoxy glue. You can use silicone caulking, but it's not very permanent and it's slightly corrosive while curing.

    As for making the connection, you need to use a split bolt connector to join the two conductors.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
    Pool School ----- Pool Math ----- TF-Test Kit

  12. Back To Top    #12

    Re: Bonding wire broken at equip pad, urgency?

    Quote Originally Posted by threecheese View Post
    @jblizzle I have decided that your advice is sound, and I am going to dig! In order to get the new bonding wire to the pump though, I think I would like to cut a groove/channel through the surface of the pad to hold the new wire down so that it's not free floating. I need to hide it somehow, kids etc.. Bad idea?
    As long as you replace the wire with #6 solid copper wire, then no additional protection is required by the NEC. I'd run it in non metallic flexible conduit attached to the slab with the appropriate clips and Tapcon screws before I would go to the effort to saw the slab. On my pool equipment slab, the bond wire just comes up out of the ground between the equipment pad and the house foundation so it is out of the way. If I was in your situation, I'd try chipping the concrete out around the existing wire and soldering new wire to the existing wire; use electrical solder if you do this, not acidic flux and solder for plumbing..
    8.5k gallon IG pebble sheen play pool with Intellitouch control, Intellifo VF, IC 20, Rainbow tab feeder (not currently in use), Pentaire mystery cartridge filter with labels faded to the point I have no idea on the model, Intellibrite 5g LED light, Hayward Navigator. Adding IntelliPh and Crestron control next.

  13. Back To Top    #13
    threecheese's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Long Island, NY
    Posts
    55

    Re: Bonding wire broken at equip pad, urgency?

    Thank you. My slab abuts a walkway, which is between the slab and the pool concrete deck. The point at which the plumbing would enter the slab is smack in the middle of it, if I had conduit coming up there it would be capital-u Ugly. I think you have a great idea though, I could run my new wire underground, all the way around to the other (hidden) side of the slab, where I could put conduit and not hate it. Thank you!

  14. Back To Top    #14

    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Sacramento, CA
    Posts
    2,769

    Re: Bonding wire broken at equip pad, urgency?

    The bonding wire never never never ever goes in conduit. Exception that proves the rule-- bonding jumper from junction box to light niche is insulated #8.

    Bonding wire not in conduit. No No No
    22k gallon IG pebblefina, Jandy 1.5 HP VS, Jandy CV Cartridge filter, Fafco solar panels, Polaris 360 supply side cleaner, waterfall

  15. Back To Top    #15
    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Tucson, AZ
    Posts
    37,389

    Re: Bonding wire broken at equip pad, urgency?

    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
    If you found TFP helpful and we saved you money ... Become a TFP Supporter!

  16. Back To Top    #16
    threecheese's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Long Island, NY
    Posts
    55

    Re: Bonding wire broken at equip pad, urgency?

    If it's an issue of metal conduit, could I instead use gray 1/4inch pvc?

  17. Back To Top    #17
    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Tucson, AZ
    Posts
    37,389

    Re: Bonding wire broken at equip pad, urgency?

    NO!!! conduit. None. Zip. Zilch.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
    If you found TFP helpful and we saved you money ... Become a TFP Supporter!

  18. Back To Top    #18
    threecheese's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Long Island, NY
    Posts
    55

    Re: Bonding wire broken at equip pad, urgency?

    If I had to guess why not, maybe water intrusion, leading to possibly the pool and people in it becoming part of the circuit? I will heed your warning.

  19. Back To Top    #19
    threecheese's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Long Island, NY
    Posts
    55

    Re: Bonding wire broken at equip pad, urgency?

    Not to keep bothering you, but is it acceptable to cut a channel through the pad, embed the bonding wire inside it, and seal it in that channel with cement or some other medium? Thank you for your guidance.

  20. Back To Top    #20
    borjis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Pacific NW
    Posts
    2,050

    Re: Bonding wire broken at equip pad, urgency?

    Quote Originally Posted by threecheese View Post
    Not to keep bothering you, but is it acceptable to cut a channel through the pad, embed the bonding wire inside it, and seal it in that channel with cement or some other medium? Thank you for your guidance.
    I did just that to bond my metal ladder recently.

    chipped a channel with a sharp chisel then poured some concrete over to blend it into the existing concrete decking.

    I had no other option to bond my ladder which was not bonded when it was built in the 70's.
    I feel safer about it now for sure (#8 copper bare used with proper bonding lugs) but best
    to get more opinions.
    16x32 IG Vinyl, 13,000 Gals. Hayward S-244T sand filter, SP2810X15 pump
    (1.5 HP motor) Raypak PR266AEN (266k btu) gas heater. TF-100 Test Kit.
    Dolphin E10 Cleaning Robot.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •