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Thread: New Owner Ready to Take Over Pool - Numbers Not so Good

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    New Owner Ready to Take Over Pool - Numbers Not so Good

    Intro: Hello everyone! First and foremost, thank you for all the wonderful info. Although I have researched much here, I am still a noob, so please take it easy on me

    Background: First-time home/pool owner in 2015. Studied up on TFP and purchased a k-2006 kit. The plan was to take over pool management but commitments deemed otherwise, so we kept the pool guy on in the interim.

    Current: We've decided to convert to a SWG pool, and having copper pipes in the ground, I know how important chemistry is e.g. pH levels. I went ahead and tested my water with the k-2006 kit.

    Chemistry:
    23 FC
    1 CC
    8.0 pH
    160 CYA
    225 TA = Alkalinity right?
    XX CH - test would not turn blue, only red to clear after a using 1/4 od the regent - guessing regents are old.

    Note: Water is clear, does not smell like chlorine, and does not cause irritation. There are darker faint brown or grey areas in the pool but not sure if that is algae always there OR staining of some sort

    Questions:
    1) The numbers posted here for chemistry are ppm right?
    2) Assuming 1 is yes, I realize those FC,CYA, & TA numbers are CRAZY. Only way to lower CYA is via a water change yes?
    3) Assuming 2 is yes, According to PoolMath I need to drain approx 80% of my water. Should I just drain the whole thing?
    4) PoolMath gives me some idea of what I need, but I would appreciate someone confirming that if I drain 95% of the water I should have X amount of supplies on hand to be ready for filling the water up.
    5) Once the pool is stabilized, then I can convert to SWG correct?

    Thank you all!
    17.5K gal IG Plaster Pool & Spa
    Pentair FNS Plus 60 DE, Hayward EcoStar SP3400VSP, Raypak Digital Heater (older unknown model), Hayward SimPure Plus T15 SWG
    Taylor K-2006 Test Kit

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    Re: New Owner Ready to Take Over Pool - Numbers Not so Good

    FC, CC, CH are ppm. pH is a scale 0-14. IDK about TA
    2 Yes
    3 Depends on your water table. If you are on a hill and not in a valley you can drain a good bit, I can drain my whole pool no problem. However, for erring on the side of safety you could do 2 (or more) partial drains. The CYA x 2 test is not as reliable, it's possible you aren't really at 160.
    4. Some bleach, some acid, maybe some CYA (see where you are after draining.)
    5 Yes.
    32K gallon Plaster - 1hp Hayward 2 speed Super Pump - Hayward S200 Sand Filter - TF100XL
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    Texas Splash's Avatar
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    Re: New Owner Ready to Take Over Pool - Numbers Not so Good

    Hello and welcome to TFP. Definitely do the water exchange and we can help you adjust from there. Nice to have you with us.
    Pat (a.k.a. Texas Splash) ~ My Pool: Viking Fiberglass; 17,888 Gal; Waterway Supreme 2-sp/2-hp pump; Hayward Ctg filter; TF-100 w/ Speed Stir
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    Re: New Owner Ready to Take Over Pool - Numbers Not so Good

    Thank you for the response.

    re the CYA test, even if it was not 160 it has to be really high. It was like half the way between the 100 mark and the bottom. Is a high FC level like that supportive of a high CYA too?

    re 3, I'm in the LA/OC basin so everything is relatively flat, but we are more inland so assuming I could drain it all. Normally I'd do a smaller change as you suggested but who knows how long this water has been in there and the previous owners did little maintance on anything.

    re 4, what I'm confused about is if I do PoolMath it seems to show all I need to take FC from 0 to 4 is 100oz of 8.5% bleach... seems so low but what do I know? Is this right?
    17.5K gal IG Plaster Pool & Spa
    Pentair FNS Plus 60 DE, Hayward EcoStar SP3400VSP, Raypak Digital Heater (older unknown model), Hayward SimPure Plus T15 SWG
    Taylor K-2006 Test Kit

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    Re: New Owner Ready to Take Over Pool - Numbers Not so Good

    There is nothing wrong with "old" water. Water is ashes.

    Another thing is to look around, where are the nearest ponds and creeks? That's another clue. You don't want to float your pool!

    Trust Poolmath, but in the beginning it's best to do things in half steps (especially acid). When refilled, I'd add half a bottle of bleach, let it mix around for a minute (brush!) and retest.

    I got curious, TA is apparently in ppm per this thread Alternate test procedures for the TF Test Kit
    32K gallon Plaster - 1hp Hayward 2 speed Super Pump - Hayward S200 Sand Filter - TF100XL
    Test Kits - Pool Math - Chlorine/CYA/Target/Slam Chart

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    Re: New Owner Ready to Take Over Pool - Numbers Not so Good

    Thank you again for the prompt response and warnings! I was able to do some research and find the depth to the shallow-most groundwater in my area is supposed to be 30-40' deep. Given the drought, it likely could be more. Either way I'll take the prudent route and stop at 75% or less to leave some weight on the pool.

    I trust the map. I guess I was surprised. I thought I would be buying gallons upon gallons of bleach and getting the death stare from some employee haha.
    17.5K gal IG Plaster Pool & Spa
    Pentair FNS Plus 60 DE, Hayward EcoStar SP3400VSP, Raypak Digital Heater (older unknown model), Hayward SimPure Plus T15 SWG
    Taylor K-2006 Test Kit

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    Re: New Owner Ready to Take Over Pool - Numbers Not so Good

    Okay, spent the weekend draining the pool, refilling, and draining again. Would love for you folks to take a gander and let me know how I am doing.

    Pre-Drain:
    23 FC
    1 CC
    8.0 pH
    160 CYA
    225 TA
    2000+ CH

    1st Drain:
    1.8 FC
    0.0 CC
    55 CYA
    7.5 pH
    230 TA
    550 CH
    150 Salt

    I felt the CH numbers were still too high, and since I had the rental pump I figured may as well drain some more and refill. I also added some salt to prep for a transition to SWG

    2nd Drain:
    1.0 FC
    0.0 CC
    25 CYA
    8.5? pH
    275 TA
    350 CH
    2350 salt

    I noticed what looked like mustard algae on the bottom of the pool and some side corners. Could be dirt or pollen, but since no one will be swimming for a couple weeks figured I would SLAM just in case.

    SLAM:
    41.5 FC
    0.0 CC
    25 CYA
    8.5? pH
    275 TA
    350 CH
    2350 salt

    Yes, that FC is crazy high. That is what happens when you trip over a hose and drop and knock over lots of liquid chlorine in the pool lol. Should lower quickly with the pool cover off and the lower CYA.

    Goal Chemistry:
    6.0 FC
    0.0 CC
    50 CYA
    7.6 pH
    ??? TA
    350 CH
    3000 salt

    Questions:
    1) Are my goal levels good pre-SWG
    2) What level should TA be at pre and post-SWG?
    3) I noticed the TA rose after each drain - how could this be? City water was high?
    17.5K gal IG Plaster Pool & Spa
    Pentair FNS Plus 60 DE, Hayward EcoStar SP3400VSP, Raypak Digital Heater (older unknown model), Hayward SimPure Plus T15 SWG
    Taylor K-2006 Test Kit

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    Re: New Owner Ready to Take Over Pool - Numbers Not so Good

    HI! You have done a great job so far!

    Do a PH and TA test on your fill water and see what is says.

    No matter what the fill water tests shows you should bring the TA down. Here is a link:

    Pool School - Lower Total Alkalinity

    It will take a little time but it is doable.

    Kim
    TFP Moderator 33x52 round AG 25,600 gals Sand Filter 1.5hp Pump - 2 Speed, SLAM, Pool School, Recommended Levels, Recommended Chemicals, Pool Math, Chlorine/CYA Chart, TF-100 Test Kit

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    Re: New Owner Ready to Take Over Pool - Numbers Not so Good

    Thank you for the kind words Kim! I was nervous doing this, but all the great info here has truly made the process so much easier.

    Great idea on the tap water test. I do know after my first drain my pH was 7.5. Only difference I can think of is a) First fill the hoses were in the water whereas the second fill they were cascading into the pool from the deck or b) the high FC I messed up on. Nothing that cannot be fixed.

    I'm going to work on lowering that TA which works out since I need to lower the current pH anyways. Thanks all!
    17.5K gal IG Plaster Pool & Spa
    Pentair FNS Plus 60 DE, Hayward EcoStar SP3400VSP, Raypak Digital Heater (older unknown model), Hayward SimPure Plus T15 SWG
    Taylor K-2006 Test Kit

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    Re: New Owner Ready to Take Over Pool - Numbers Not so Good

    Quote Originally Posted by Stryprod View Post
    I'm going to work on lowering that TA which works out since I need to lower the current pH anyways. Thanks all!
    When FC is higher than 10, the pH test is not accurate and can read higher than it is. I recommend waiting until your FC comes down before adjusting pH.
    11,500 Gal Fiberglass IG Pool. Hayward cartridge filter with Pentair 3/4 HP pump
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    Re: New Owner Ready to Take Over Pool - Numbers Not so Good

    Thank you for the advice. I was trying to SLAM and lower TA at the same time since I had heard lower pH levels made FC more effective too. Sounds like it is better to do one thing at a time.

    We've had overcast skies, so I left the CYA low to make lower FC levels more effective. Seeing over a 10 FC depletion during the day, and with sunny skies forecasted, I added stabilizer to buffer FC. I was aiming for 40 but erred on the side of less is more. Currently a little under but I'm waiting at least +24 hours for more reliable numbers to adjust off of.

    Still kept the FC higher and will see how the FC levels react during the day with higher CYA. Assuming the levels do not go too low, I will taper down the FC to 25 and maintain until I get an overnight clear.

    4/15/2016 PM
    41.5 FC
    0 CC
    25 CYA
    8.2 pH
    275 TA

    4/16/2016 PM (Evening)
    28.5 FC
    0.5 CC
    25 CYA
    7.6 pH
    200 TA

    4/16/2016 PM (Night)
    38 FC
    0.5 CC
    20 CYA
    7.4 pH
    200 TA

    4/17/2016 AM
    39 FC
    1 CC
    33 CYA
    7.3 pH
    225 TA
    Last edited by Stryprod; 05-17-2016 at 12:35 PM. Reason: spelling
    17.5K gal IG Plaster Pool & Spa
    Pentair FNS Plus 60 DE, Hayward EcoStar SP3400VSP, Raypak Digital Heater (older unknown model), Hayward SimPure Plus T15 SWG
    Taylor K-2006 Test Kit

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    Re: New Owner Ready to Take Over Pool - Numbers Not so Good

    Just to confirm .. what is your current CYA? Is it 40 or 50? Also, remember there's no need to test pH while your FC is so high. You'll continue to get a false (high) pH reading. You can just save your reagents.
    Pat (a.k.a. Texas Splash) ~ My Pool: Viking Fiberglass; 17,888 Gal; Waterway Supreme 2-sp/2-hp pump; Hayward Ctg filter; TF-100 w/ Speed Stir
    Vital Links: POOL SCHOOL, RECOMMENDED LEVELS, RECOMMENDED CHEMICALS, Poolmath Calculator, SLAM, Chlorine/CYA CHART.
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    Re: New Owner Ready to Take Over Pool - Numbers Not so Good

    CYA was 33 this morning. I added 34oz of stabilizer last night which should have brought me from 25 to 40 CYA per pool math, but my initial read may have been lower than 25 (the tube only fills so high). I've read, after adding stabilizer, to wait at least 24 hours before testing and making adjustments.

    I am going to stop trying to lower TA in tandem with the SLAM thus negating the need for a pH test. I'm amazed how quickly you go through these regents when SLAMing.
    17.5K gal IG Plaster Pool & Spa
    Pentair FNS Plus 60 DE, Hayward EcoStar SP3400VSP, Raypak Digital Heater (older unknown model), Hayward SimPure Plus T15 SWG
    Taylor K-2006 Test Kit

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    Re: New Owner Ready to Take Over Pool - Numbers Not so Good

    I asked because I was looking at your FC. If we use a CYA of 40, your SLAM FC level is only 16. You are significantly higher right now. Was there a specific reason for being so high?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Also.. for FC testing, are you using the 10ML sample size:
    10ml sample, multiply drop count by 0.5 (standard method)
    Pat (a.k.a. Texas Splash) ~ My Pool: Viking Fiberglass; 17,888 Gal; Waterway Supreme 2-sp/2-hp pump; Hayward Ctg filter; TF-100 w/ Speed Stir
    Vital Links: POOL SCHOOL, RECOMMENDED LEVELS, RECOMMENDED CHEMICALS, Poolmath Calculator, SLAM, Chlorine/CYA CHART.
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    Re: New Owner Ready to Take Over Pool - Numbers Not so Good

    I am using the 10ml sample size and the 24 FC SLAM numbers since my algae matched online images of mustard algae. The reason my FC went so high initially was because I tripped and dumped a lot of chlorine in. Whoops.

    The next day though, my FC numbers dropped -12. Wow. I knew some would be because of consumption killing algae, but I bet a lot was due to the sun's effect and low CYA. Until I could get the CYA up, I was using a +10 FC buffer (~35 FC). Now that my CYA is near 40 I intend to let that FC drift down to ~25 until I pass the SLAM requirements for cessation.

    Overall water clarity was never bad, but I have the clearest water I've ever had today. Hopefully my numbers bode well for me tonight!

    Hope that explains my crazy logic
    17.5K gal IG Plaster Pool & Spa
    Pentair FNS Plus 60 DE, Hayward EcoStar SP3400VSP, Raypak Digital Heater (older unknown model), Hayward SimPure Plus T15 SWG
    Taylor K-2006 Test Kit

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    Re: New Owner Ready to Take Over Pool - Numbers Not so Good

    It does help. And I'm glad your water is looking good. For MA treatment we generally maintain regular SLAM shock levels first, then raise to MA only for 24 hours. I just wanted to make sure you were aware. I was concerned about wasting bleach. As you have seen, excess FC gets burned really fast when it doesn't have the corresponding ration of CYA to bond to.
    Pat (a.k.a. Texas Splash) ~ My Pool: Viking Fiberglass; 17,888 Gal; Waterway Supreme 2-sp/2-hp pump; Hayward Ctg filter; TF-100 w/ Speed Stir
    Vital Links: POOL SCHOOL, RECOMMENDED LEVELS, RECOMMENDED CHEMICALS, Poolmath Calculator, SLAM, Chlorine/CYA CHART.
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    Re: New Owner Ready to Take Over Pool - Numbers Not so Good

    I was unaware, or missed, the 24 hour part. So much to learn here for a newbie!

    I tested my FC 2 hours after adding chlorine last night, and I got a ~37. When I tested this AM I got a 39 FC. Weird it went up, but within the margin of error for such high numbers. I suppose that is a positive overnight number too lol.

    I will absolutely let the FC drop to 16 now, although odds are the algae will be loooong dead by then, and I'll be dropping to 6 soon enough. I bet I'll pass the over night test tonight or tomorrow.
    17.5K gal IG Plaster Pool & Spa
    Pentair FNS Plus 60 DE, Hayward EcoStar SP3400VSP, Raypak Digital Heater (older unknown model), Hayward SimPure Plus T15 SWG
    Taylor K-2006 Test Kit

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    Texas Splash's Avatar
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    Re: New Owner Ready to Take Over Pool - Numbers Not so Good

    Good luck on your OCLT!
    Pat (a.k.a. Texas Splash) ~ My Pool: Viking Fiberglass; 17,888 Gal; Waterway Supreme 2-sp/2-hp pump; Hayward Ctg filter; TF-100 w/ Speed Stir
    Vital Links: POOL SCHOOL, RECOMMENDED LEVELS, RECOMMENDED CHEMICALS, Poolmath Calculator, SLAM, Chlorine/CYA CHART.
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    Re: New Owner Ready to Take Over Pool - Numbers Not so Good

    After a steady OCLT, I can declare my first 2.5 day SLAM a success! (numbers below) My FC is still too high, but I will allow it to drift down to my target of 6 FC, and begin work on lowering the TA to 100.

    Side note - we had a last minute opportunity to finally remove the 15 Italian cypress trees that some dumb person decided to plant 3 feet from the pool. Not only dangerous to the concrete, but constantly dumped tiny pieces of "leaf" litter into the pool. I'm sure tree litter and dirt will be falling in during the removal, so the high FC should help in this situation. How fortuitous.

    Thank you again for all the resources and help here!

    5/17 PM
    30 FC
    0.5 CC

    5/18 AM
    30 FC*
    0.5 CC

    *NOTE: Average of two test (1st @ 29 FC, 2nd @ 31 FC)
    17.5K gal IG Plaster Pool & Spa
    Pentair FNS Plus 60 DE, Hayward EcoStar SP3400VSP, Raypak Digital Heater (older unknown model), Hayward SimPure Plus T15 SWG
    Taylor K-2006 Test Kit

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    Re: New Owner Ready to Take Over Pool - Numbers Not so Good

    Nice work! I must say...you passed your SLAM in record time.
    Pat (a.k.a. Texas Splash) ~ My Pool: Viking Fiberglass; 17,888 Gal; Waterway Supreme 2-sp/2-hp pump; Hayward Ctg filter; TF-100 w/ Speed Stir
    Vital Links: POOL SCHOOL, RECOMMENDED LEVELS, RECOMMENDED CHEMICALS, Poolmath Calculator, SLAM, Chlorine/CYA CHART.
    If you enjoyed your TFP experience, please consider donating to Support TFP!

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