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Thread: So, I've been doing some math (electricity usage)...

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    So, I've been doing some math (electricity usage)...

    ... and I'm quite surprised at the results.

    Yesterday I played with different GPM settings on my pump, recording how many watts are used at each step, and calculated out the power usage. Now this will vary with different pools and plumbing, but either way I'm still quite surprised to see the results.

    My goal was to determine what the most efficient setting was. Running slower is not always going to result in the lowest power consumption, but in my case it did.

    But what REALLY caught me off guard is how little it costs per month to run my pump. If I turn over the full 44,000 gallons once per day, at the most efficient setting, which for me turned out to be 30 GPM, my pump only adds $3.29 per month to my power bill. Yes, this includes changing run time calculation when running higher GPMs.

    Before yesterday, I had the misconception that it was much higher, based on the information provided to me by a third party, which we did our best to validate through energy usage from two identical houses 6 doors apart, one (that third party's) with a pool and one without.

    Now, I don't know how much of the difference has to do with the fact that they were using a very inefficient single speed pump (they buy the cheapest thing they can find), but still, I think the numbers I was given were way overstated. They sincerely believe their pump added $100 per month to their bill.
    Built in 1957 44,000 gallon in-ground, Wet Edge Primera Stone in Sky Blue, Intelliflo VF Pump, 600 lb. Pentair Triton II TR-100 Sand Filter, CircuPool RG 60 Plus SWG, TF-100 test kit
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    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: So, I've been doing some math (electricity usage)...

    What do you pay for electricity?

    30 GPM should be about 130 watts +- and for a full turnover, that is over 24 hrs. But assuming 24/7, that alone is 92kwh per month not counting additional usage for high speed. So are you paying less than $0.04/kwh?
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: So, I've been doing some math (electricity usage)...

    I have a similarly sized pool but I didn't do the exhaustive testing that you probably did. To keep my water clean, comparing a 1.5HP super pump usage to the VS I have now I can confirm that I am saving a great deal more than $100/month. I replaced the pump at the pool opening last year so only compared the KWh's and $$ easily through my utility's website.
    3 years of very similar costs to run the house then our 4 month summer dropped by a lot last year. one thing that also impacted me and I calculated this separately with the electrical specs of my unit is the added savings of the heat pump. I set the VS just below the acceptable flow of the heater to make sure not to have it run along there pump at all times.

    G.
    1979, 40K Gallon IG Vinyl, Laser250 sand filter, 1.5 hp Pentair SuperMax VS pump, Aqua-Rite SWG

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    Re: So, I've been doing some math (electricity usage)...

    I've done my math 100 times and double checked it, and I am pretty sure I have it right, but that's one of the reasons I put this up here.

    30 GPM is pulling 435 watts. Turnover is 24.44 hours, so just slightly over one day. This puts me at 10.63 kWh per day, energy cost is 1.03 per kWh, which calculates to $3.29 per 30 day month.

    Here's my math, because somewhere I'm off compared to your math.
    kWh per day = watts (435) x turnover hours (24.44 is a little off but close enough for this math) / 1000 which comes to 10.63.

    Then of course cost per 30 days is (kWh per day (10.63) times cost (1.03)) / 100 for per day, then x30 for month's cost = $3.29

    - - - Updated - - -

    Note - 25 gpm pulls 270, 20 pulls 225. Ramping up to 30 is a big jump.
    Built in 1957 44,000 gallon in-ground, Wet Edge Primera Stone in Sky Blue, Intelliflo VF Pump, 600 lb. Pentair Triton II TR-100 Sand Filter, CircuPool RG 60 Plus SWG, TF-100 test kit
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    Re: So, I've been doing some math (electricity usage)...

    cost is 1.03 per kWh
    What does that mean? 1 cent per kwh?

    In another post, you said your electrical cost was $0.10 per kwh which is $1.06 per day or over $30/month.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: So, I've been doing some math (electricity usage)...

    In this part of the country, we pay ~$0.23/kWh. I'm jealous!
    Jay--Metro NYC
    35K gal, in-ground, free-form, pebble finish, 2 skimmers, 3 returns, autofill. No spa, no features. Partial shade.
    Pentair C&C cartridge filter (400 sq in), Pentair VS pump, Pentair 140 btu heat pump, Triton Plus Robo-cleaner; Stenner with 55 gal bleach cistern. TFT 100 test kit.

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    Re: So, I've been doing some math (electricity usage)...

    Sorry, typo.

    Energy Charge (all kWh) $0.0561 per kWh
    Recovery Adjustment Factor* $0.0469

    Total 0.103
    Built in 1957 44,000 gallon in-ground, Wet Edge Primera Stone in Sky Blue, Intelliflo VF Pump, 600 lb. Pentair Triton II TR-100 Sand Filter, CircuPool RG 60 Plus SWG, TF-100 test kit
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    Re: So, I've been doing some math (electricity usage)...

    So that is $30 per month, not $3 per month.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: So, I've been doing some math (electricity usage)...

    I need to go back and see where I have a decimal off. I thought there was no way that pump cost $3 a month...

    But still, $30 a month is a lot better!

    But with the correct math, it illustrates where I could save around $10 a month or so by not turning once per day.

    - - - Updated - - -
    GPM Watts RPM Watts/GPMx1000 Hours required to turn over pool kWh per day Cost per day Cost per 30 day month Turnovers per day
    15 175 1275 85.71 48.89 4.20 0.43 $12.98 0.490909091
    20 225 1400 88.89 36.67 5.40 0.56 $16.69 0.654545455
    25 270 1500 92.59 29.33 6.48 0.67 $20.02 0.818181818
    30 435 1840 68.97 24.44 10.63 1.10 $32.86 0.981818182
    35 560 2025 62.50 20.95 11.73 1.21 $36.26 1
    40 690 2180 57.97 18.33 12.65 1.30 $39.09 1
    45 880 2400 51.14 16.30 14.34 1.48 $44.31 1
    50 1260 2755 39.68 14.67 18.48 1.90 $57.10 1



    I know that's hard to read, but it is correct now. Thanks!

    That watts/GPMx1000 was just an arbitrary number I wanted to see.
    Built in 1957 44,000 gallon in-ground, Wet Edge Primera Stone in Sky Blue, Intelliflo VF Pump, 600 lb. Pentair Triton II TR-100 Sand Filter, CircuPool RG 60 Plus SWG, TF-100 test kit
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    Re: So, I've been doing some math (electricity usage)...

    But 435 watts for only 30 GPM is quite high. You must have very high head loss plumbing. Just saw RPM above.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: So, I've been doing some math (electricity usage)...

    What is the significance of turnover? I though that was something we really don't consider so I've never thought about it.
    Bob - Palm Beach by San Juan Pools. approx 5000 gals., Pentair 320 cartridge filter (all new guts installed by me), Goldline SWG, 'New to me' Kreepy Krauly Sand Shark, Intermec 104 Timer Test kit: TF-100 w/Speed Stir

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    Re: So, I've been doing some math (electricity usage)...

    It's in the chart, just hard to read. At 30 GPM I am running 1840 RPM.

    Keep in mind, this pool was built in 1957.

    The one skimmer and one main drain are pulled by the pump into the system through 2" copper. From there, I go through the pump, filter, SWG, then there is a reducer to send the water back through 1.5" copper. There are four returns, all at the wall of the shallow end, and IIRC they are 3/4" copper, adapted to PVC during the remodel.

    The returns are approximately 70' from the equipment room.

    One other thing that comes to mind, there may be some restriction due to the eyeball type I have. I should probably try removing them and see what happens at 30 GPM. They only have a 3/8" opening. Should I consider changing them to 3/4" openings?

    [edited]

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by pabeader View Post
    What is the significance of turnover? I though that was something we really don't consider so I've never thought about it.
    I'm just using that as a constant. Note in my chart I have lower turnovers listed. And, I have a SWG, so I have to consider enough runtime and GPM for it also.
    Built in 1957 44,000 gallon in-ground, Wet Edge Primera Stone in Sky Blue, Intelliflo VF Pump, 600 lb. Pentair Triton II TR-100 Sand Filter, CircuPool RG 60 Plus SWG, TF-100 test kit
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    Re: So, I've been doing some math (electricity usage)...

    If you switch to larger opening returns you will get less head loss. You will also have lower pressure at the return so may effect circulation. But I think the gain in head will compensate for that. More volume moving around the pool.
    Bob - Palm Beach by San Juan Pools. approx 5000 gals., Pentair 320 cartridge filter (all new guts installed by me), Goldline SWG, 'New to me' Kreepy Krauly Sand Shark, Intermec 104 Timer Test kit: TF-100 w/Speed Stir

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    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: So, I've been doing some math (electricity usage)...

    Whoa, 3/8" really? That is like spa jet size. Definitely, you will get far more flow rate and better efficiency with larger eyeballs.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
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    Re: So, I've been doing some math (electricity usage)...

    These are the one the PB put in when he did the replaster. I thought they looked pretty small.

    All this pumping stuff is one area I get really lost in.

    Ordering new eyeballs right now.

    Before, it had little copper discs with 4 3/8" holes. No eyeballs. We are talking ancient history here.
    Built in 1957 44,000 gallon in-ground, Wet Edge Primera Stone in Sky Blue, Intelliflo VF Pump, 600 lb. Pentair Triton II TR-100 Sand Filter, CircuPool RG 60 Plus SWG, TF-100 test kit
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    Re: So, I've been doing some math (electricity usage)...

    1979, 40K Gallon IG Vinyl, Laser250 sand filter, 1.5 hp Pentair SuperMax VS pump, Aqua-Rite SWG

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    Re: So, I've been doing some math (electricity usage)...

    Pure marketing and far from reality.
    Mark
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    Re: So, I've been doing some math (electricity usage)...

    It won't even go large enough for my pool. Besides, there are too many variables to consider. For example, how many pools have a single 1.5" run to the returns, and how many are 70' from the pump like mine?

    I'm trying my best to use real world numbers on my own pool.

    For that matter, how many 44,000 gallon pools have one skimmer?
    Built in 1957 44,000 gallon in-ground, Wet Edge Primera Stone in Sky Blue, Intelliflo VF Pump, 600 lb. Pentair Triton II TR-100 Sand Filter, CircuPool RG 60 Plus SWG, TF-100 test kit
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    Re: So, I've been doing some math (electricity usage)...

    Quote Originally Posted by mas985 View Post
    Pure marketing and far from reality.
    yes but iff you are entering your own numbers it's no different than making up a spreadsheet with the exact data the OP calculated.

    Quote Originally Posted by RobbieH View Post
    It won't even go large enough for my pool. Besides, there are too many variables to consider. For example, how many pools have a single 1.5" run to the returns, and how many are 70' from the pump like mine?

    For that matter, how many 44,000 gallon pools have one skimmer?
    I say 40k gal since the pool places around here don't calc larger but I have a similar size as yours, 1.5' return T'd off for 2, 1 ( very small) skimmer, 80ft from pad.

    and marketing or not, my proof is on my elect bill. once solar heat is installed I'll be able to narrow the pump & heater's effect on costing more precisely.

    G.
    1979, 40K Gallon IG Vinyl, Laser250 sand filter, 1.5 hp Pentair SuperMax VS pump, Aqua-Rite SWG

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    Re: So, I've been doing some math (electricity usage)...

    Just an interesting math note, the area of a 1.5 inch pipe is 1.77 square inches. With only (4) 3/8" eyeballs you only have 0.44 square inches of opening to you pool. With a change to (4) 3/4" eyeballs that will give you 1.76 square inches return into the pool. You said the previous set up was 4 copper plates with (4) 3/8" hole per plate. The copper plate set up is equal in square inches of opening to having (4) 3/4" eyeballs.
    Chuck-
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