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Thread: Handrail in Pavers

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    IrwinK's Avatar
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    Handrail in Pavers

    A Paver deck will be installed in my new pool at any time now yet they haven't prepared for the 54" Stainless Steel Handrail I specified.

    54" is a big amount of leverage so it should need lots of cement to safely hold the old folks in the family who will be using the pool.

    They are pouring the footings for the pool cage tomorrow (Wednesday 5/11) but did not prepare any forms for the rail base. They said they will do it later but that might mean after pavers are already in and a sloppy inadequate job.

    Has anyone been through this or have any info on the size of a cement base and anchors to properly mount the handrail?

    Thanks,
    Irwin
    New Pool - Orlando Florida
    My 2016 Build 14'x19'x35' IG Gunite 15K Gal. Roman, 4'-5' deep, 6 returns, 3 sheers
    4 deck jets, 2 Pentair XF22005 Pumps, Clean&Clear 200 Cartridge Filter, Brick Coping
    2 Pentair 5g 12v LED Pool Lights, 1 Pentair 12v Globrite LED in step area, 2 Bubblers
    Inline Chlorinator - SWG later, WetEdge Mediterranean Pebble, Intermatic MultiWave
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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Handrail in Pavers

    I would sure prefer to have the footers for the railing poured at the same time as the cage ... and certainly before they show up to lay pavers.

    Call and make your concerns known and have them explain their plan.
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    Kpag's Avatar
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    Re: Handrail in Pavers

    Is your handrail from this company? If yes, here's the link to the installation instructions. If no, I would find the brand and it's particular instructions.

    http://srsmith.com/media/126979/rail...ders080713.pdf
    IG ~12000 gallon 1988 freeform pool with IG spa, Hayward equip, Ecostar pump. Remodel done: NPT Arctic 1x2 tile in Lagoon w/ gray thinset & Light Pewter grout, French Gray PebbleSheen w/ grey fittings, Leuders buff eased edge limestone coping w/ Light Buff mortar, buff mastic

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    IrwinK's Avatar
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    Re: Handrail in Pavers

    Thanks Jason I will see the PB's employees (not Sub) in the a.m. The PB will not be here as I was told he injured his back. They will pour the footers for the cage and the raised areas in back of the waterfalls with delivered ready mix cement. They told me they will pour the footer for the rail later and they will mix the cement themselves like they did for the equipment pad and the skimmer.

    The PB's wife (it's a Ma & Pa business) doesn't know when the Pavers are being scheduled yet. I don't want anything to interfere with getting the pavers done ASAP as it will hold up the Screen Enclosure Sub measuring and getting his permit. Said it will take 2 weeks after Pavers to complete the screen and then allthta'sleft is the We Edge Plasterers.
    So if it means lifting up an small area of pavers to pour the base for the rail I will have live with that.

    Thanks Kpag Yes. The Rail in my contract specs is the SR Smith DMS-102 MS. I haven't seen the rail yet.
    Distance between anchors 8"
    I don't understand what they mean by 6" minimum setback. I think it means 6"min. back from the pool wall.
    They don't say what size the cement base should be.
    My 2016 Build 14'x19'x35' IG Gunite 15K Gal. Roman, 4'-5' deep, 6 returns, 3 sheers
    4 deck jets, 2 Pentair XF22005 Pumps, Clean&Clear 200 Cartridge Filter, Brick Coping
    2 Pentair 5g 12v LED Pool Lights, 1 Pentair 12v Globrite LED in step area, 2 Bubblers
    Inline Chlorinator - SWG later, WetEdge Mediterranean Pebble, Intermatic MultiWave
    43'x33' Screened Paver Deck&15'x30' Lanai, Doheny Discovery (S200) Robot, TF-100

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    Kpag's Avatar
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    Re: Handrail in Pavers

    Sorry, I am clueless about construction. It does say "bond anchor to rebar in deck". That sounds important! And "follow NEC or local building codes". Maybe google those? orlando pool building codes

    New Construction
    • Set anchor fl ush with the deck, with wedge oriented away from pool. Refer to Figure below.
    • Bond anchor to rebar in deck. Make sure to follow NEC or local building codes.
    • Pour concrete with minimum compression strength of 3,000 PSI. Concrete not included.
    • Allow cement to cure per manufacturer’s instructions.
    • Install the ladder or rail into the anchor.
    IG ~12000 gallon 1988 freeform pool with IG spa, Hayward equip, Ecostar pump. Remodel done: NPT Arctic 1x2 tile in Lagoon w/ gray thinset & Light Pewter grout, French Gray PebbleSheen w/ grey fittings, Leuders buff eased edge limestone coping w/ Light Buff mortar, buff mastic

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    Re: Handrail in Pavers

    The achor cups need to be bonded to the bonding grid.

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    IrwinK's Avatar
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    Re: Handrail in Pavers

    Rail was installed this morning although it was the wrong one.

    The one I specified in the contract was: SR Smith DMS-102 MS

    http://srsmith.com/en-us/products/la...rails/dms-102/

    What was installed appears to be the DMS-101 which is smaller and shaped differently.
    http://srsmith.com/en-us/products/la...rails/dms-101/

    They both have the same dimensions at the Anchors so they should be able to be swapped.

    It is also important that it is the MS version. MS stands for Marine Stainless Steel. It is the one that is more resistant to salt and I will eventually have a salt pool.

    The anchors were bonded to the bonding grid.

    I'll post pictures soon.
    My 2016 Build 14'x19'x35' IG Gunite 15K Gal. Roman, 4'-5' deep, 6 returns, 3 sheers
    4 deck jets, 2 Pentair XF22005 Pumps, Clean&Clear 200 Cartridge Filter, Brick Coping
    2 Pentair 5g 12v LED Pool Lights, 1 Pentair 12v Globrite LED in step area, 2 Bubblers
    Inline Chlorinator - SWG later, WetEdge Mediterranean Pebble, Intermatic MultiWave
    43'x33' Screened Paver Deck&15'x30' Lanai, Doheny Discovery (S200) Robot, TF-100

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    IrwinK's Avatar
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    Re: Handrail in Pavers

    My 2016 Build 14'x19'x35' IG Gunite 15K Gal. Roman, 4'-5' deep, 6 returns, 3 sheers
    4 deck jets, 2 Pentair XF22005 Pumps, Clean&Clear 200 Cartridge Filter, Brick Coping
    2 Pentair 5g 12v LED Pool Lights, 1 Pentair 12v Globrite LED in step area, 2 Bubblers
    Inline Chlorinator - SWG later, WetEdge Mediterranean Pebble, Intermatic MultiWave
    43'x33' Screened Paver Deck&15'x30' Lanai, Doheny Discovery (S200) Robot, TF-100

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    Re: Handrail in Pavers

    Nice setup / view!
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    Mod Squad kimkats's Avatar
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    Re: Handrail in Pavers

    Do you have any idea how deep they made the concrete base for that? I wonder why they brought the smaller one? What does your PB have to say about it?

    Kim
    TFP Moderator 33x52 round AG 25,600 gals Sand Filter 1.5hp Pump - 2 Speed, SLAM, Pool School, Recommended Levels, Recommended Chemicals, Pool Math, Chlorine/CYA Chart, TF-100 Test Kit

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    IrwinK's Avatar
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    Re: Handrail in Pavers

    They dug a few shovels full, put in a piece of rebar that they bent into a triangle and quickly filled with cement.

    It can't be more than a foot deep because a pipe with the wires from the Globrite LED in the 1st step is right under it.

    Bringing the smaller rail might be just another careless error or worse. They did the same thing with my XF pumps. They brought the lower priced VF pumps.

    As for the PB he wasn't here and very hard to get in touch with. I sent an email about the handrail but have not received a reply yet.
    My 2016 Build 14'x19'x35' IG Gunite 15K Gal. Roman, 4'-5' deep, 6 returns, 3 sheers
    4 deck jets, 2 Pentair XF22005 Pumps, Clean&Clear 200 Cartridge Filter, Brick Coping
    2 Pentair 5g 12v LED Pool Lights, 1 Pentair 12v Globrite LED in step area, 2 Bubblers
    Inline Chlorinator - SWG later, WetEdge Mediterranean Pebble, Intermatic MultiWave
    43'x33' Screened Paver Deck&15'x30' Lanai, Doheny Discovery (S200) Robot, TF-100

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    IrwinK's Avatar
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    Re: Handrail in Pavers

    Here's what I should have received:
    S.R. Smith DMS 102 - Official S.R. Smith Products

    - - - Updated - - -

    Here's what I got substituted from the PB:
    S.R. Smith DMS 101 - Official S.R. Smith Products
    My 2016 Build 14'x19'x35' IG Gunite 15K Gal. Roman, 4'-5' deep, 6 returns, 3 sheers
    4 deck jets, 2 Pentair XF22005 Pumps, Clean&Clear 200 Cartridge Filter, Brick Coping
    2 Pentair 5g 12v LED Pool Lights, 1 Pentair 12v Globrite LED in step area, 2 Bubblers
    Inline Chlorinator - SWG later, WetEdge Mediterranean Pebble, Intermatic MultiWave
    43'x33' Screened Paver Deck&15'x30' Lanai, Doheny Discovery (S200) Robot, TF-100

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    Mod Squad kimkats's Avatar
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    Re: Handrail in Pavers

    MUCH different! You NEED the one your ordered

    Kim
    TFP Moderator 33x52 round AG 25,600 gals Sand Filter 1.5hp Pump - 2 Speed, SLAM, Pool School, Recommended Levels, Recommended Chemicals, Pool Math, Chlorine/CYA Chart, TF-100 Test Kit

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    IrwinK's Avatar
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    Re: Handrail in Pavers

    Kim they are working this a.m. on finishing tile & pavers & brought a large flat box. I thought it was the correct rail but it was only the box to bring back the incorrrect one. Hopefully they ordered the correct one and it fits the anchors. PB still hasn't called or visited. Employees "know nothing" about a new rail.

    Will post picture of new rail when it eventually arrives. Also I'll post pictures of today's work on my construction page, if they don't get rained out. High rain chances all week - rainy season might have started early in FL this year which will cause more delays.

    I added a link to my construction page to my signature. Hope it works.
    My 2016 Build 14'x19'x35' IG Gunite 15K Gal. Roman, 4'-5' deep, 6 returns, 3 sheers
    4 deck jets, 2 Pentair XF22005 Pumps, Clean&Clear 200 Cartridge Filter, Brick Coping
    2 Pentair 5g 12v LED Pool Lights, 1 Pentair 12v Globrite LED in step area, 2 Bubblers
    Inline Chlorinator - SWG later, WetEdge Mediterranean Pebble, Intermatic MultiWave
    43'x33' Screened Paver Deck&15'x30' Lanai, Doheny Discovery (S200) Robot, TF-100

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    Mod Squad kimkats's Avatar
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    Re: Handrail in Pavers

    Your link showed up! Nice job!

    I would write an email to your PB asking about your handrail so it is documented. Unreal he has not showed up

    Kim
    TFP Moderator 33x52 round AG 25,600 gals Sand Filter 1.5hp Pump - 2 Speed, SLAM, Pool School, Recommended Levels, Recommended Chemicals, Pool Math, Chlorine/CYA Chart, TF-100 Test Kit

  16. Back To Top    #16
    IrwinK's Avatar
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    Re: Handrail in Pavers

    They installed the correct rail today.

    My 2016 Build 14'x19'x35' IG Gunite 15K Gal. Roman, 4'-5' deep, 6 returns, 3 sheers
    4 deck jets, 2 Pentair XF22005 Pumps, Clean&Clear 200 Cartridge Filter, Brick Coping
    2 Pentair 5g 12v LED Pool Lights, 1 Pentair 12v Globrite LED in step area, 2 Bubblers
    Inline Chlorinator - SWG later, WetEdge Mediterranean Pebble, Intermatic MultiWave
    43'x33' Screened Paver Deck&15'x30' Lanai, Doheny Discovery (S200) Robot, TF-100

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    Mod Squad kimkats's Avatar
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    Re: Handrail in Pavers

    That is purrfect! They should be able to grab that and pull up and out with out any problem.

    Kim
    TFP Moderator 33x52 round AG 25,600 gals Sand Filter 1.5hp Pump - 2 Speed, SLAM, Pool School, Recommended Levels, Recommended Chemicals, Pool Math, Chlorine/CYA Chart, TF-100 Test Kit

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    IrwinK's Avatar
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    Re: Handrail in Pavers

    My Mother in her 90s needs that rail. Steps are steep to 4' depth. She's a happy camper now with the right rail.

    The only possible problem I see is that the tip of the rail will touch or be splashed by the water. I'm going to eventually have a SWG so I hope PB got the Marine Stainless version of the rail.

    I don't see any way to tell Marine from Regular Stainless. Maybe someone here on TFP knows.
    My 2016 Build 14'x19'x35' IG Gunite 15K Gal. Roman, 4'-5' deep, 6 returns, 3 sheers
    4 deck jets, 2 Pentair XF22005 Pumps, Clean&Clear 200 Cartridge Filter, Brick Coping
    2 Pentair 5g 12v LED Pool Lights, 1 Pentair 12v Globrite LED in step area, 2 Bubblers
    Inline Chlorinator - SWG later, WetEdge Mediterranean Pebble, Intermatic MultiWave
    43'x33' Screened Paver Deck&15'x30' Lanai, Doheny Discovery (S200) Robot, TF-100

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    Re: Handrail in Pavers

    If I recall correctly, there was a small clear label with black text in some inconspicuous spot on the railing. Also, I have the same railing and the end dips into the pool and has had no corrosion after five years.

    Quote Originally Posted by IrwinK View Post
    My Mother in her 90s needs that rail. Steps are steep to 4' depth. She's a happy camper now with the right rail.

    The only possible problem I see is that the tip of the rail will touch or be splashed by the water. I'm going to eventually have a SWG so I hope PB got the Marine Stainless version of the rail.

    I don't see any way to tell Marine from Regular Stainless. Maybe someone here on TFP knows.
    Free-form concrete walls with vinyl liner, 18,000 gallon capacity, Jandy 1.5HP e-Pump, Jandy DEV48 DE filter (using cellulose media), Jandy AE2500 heat pump, Jandy Aqualink Power Center with 14-blade cell kit and Jandy PDA-P8 wireless control system.

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    Re: Handrail in Pavers

    Quote Originally Posted by IrwinK View Post
    I don't see any way to tell Marine from Regular Stainless. Maybe someone here on TFP knows.
    No way to tell visually unless it's labeled. Marine (316) stainless is just regular 304 stainless that has a tiny bit of Molybdenum added to increase the resistance to chlorides. The impact on the corrosion resistance is large though, so if you specified 316, you better have gotten 316. Ask to see the purchase order - the part number will end in "-MG" if it's the marine grade stainless.

    Realistically though most people won't see a difference unless it's a particularly harsh environment. The 316 stuff is usually used for chemical transport piping with corrosive levels far exceeding those in your chlorine pool.
    13,000 Gallon AG Vinyl, Hayward Power-Flo Matrix 1HP Single Speed @ 80GPM, Hayward XStream 100SF Cartridge Filter

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