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Thread: Ontario Electrician's in the house?

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    Ontario Electrician's in the house?

    So I'm gearing up to finish this pool install I started last fall. The pool and equipment pad are in, now to install the electrical and equipment.

    I'm doing the work myself and just wanted to get feeback on if anything I'm doing is not to Ontario code. I've already applied for my ESA inspection as well.

    Some background:
    Main service is 200A. The panel is full so the previous owners ran a secondary 125 service to a small 4 port Square D panel. Good thing is they did it legit with 2/3 wire from the main panel.

    What I'm looking to do is replacing the Square D sub panel with some other panel (Siemens?) with 125A main and a spot for a 60A sub service. The 60A sub will be run 110 ft with 6/3 NMWU wire through 1.25" PVC conduit buried 3 ft deep. This line will be run to the equipment pad and connected to a Hayward Omnilogic that will control the usual equipment (heater, pump, ect..) along with other things like Cabana/landscape lighting, receptacles in the cabana, ect.

    I'm sure I could be okay with only running 40A out but I'd like 60 for future growth. Never know.

    Any feedback would be helpful. Again, I live in Ontario so i'm looking on feedback on the Ontario code. Thanks!

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    Isaac-1's Avatar
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    Re: Ontario Electrician's in the house?

    I don't know about Ontario, but in the US running NM through conduit is a big no no, you should use THWN, or one of its cousins.
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    Re: Ontario Electrician's in the house?

    +1 on what Issac said above. Generally no sheathed cable inside conduit.

    I would go down and talk to the local building inspector. Tell him what you want to do. I would put a subpanel at the end of your run. I would ask if that can act as the maintenance disconnect for your pump.

    I'd also google "Mike Holt swimming pool guide 2014" It comes up with a PDF document that you should read before you do the work. Its based on the 2014 NEC and while there are differences in CAnada they are fairly close.
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    Re: Ontario Electrician's in the house?

    Quote Originally Posted by Isaac-1 View Post
    I don't know about Ontario, but in the US running NM through conduit is a big no no, you should use THWN, or one of its cousins.
    Thanks Issac! This is just the kind of info I'm looking for.

    Quote Originally Posted by gwegan View Post
    +1 on what Issac said above. Generally no sheathed cable inside conduit.

    I would go down and talk to the local building inspector. Tell him what you want to do. I would put a subpanel at the end of your run. I would ask if that can act as the maintenance disconnect for your pump.

    I'd also google "Mike Holt swimming pool guide 2014" It comes up with a PDF document that you should read before you do the work. Its based on the 2014 NEC and while there are differences in CAnada they are fairly close.
    Thanks gwegan. Is the subpanel at the end of the run really necessary? After reading about the Omni, I'm to understand that it is a subpanel rated for 100A as part of it's automation solution. Is this a added safety suggestion or code?

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    Isaac-1's Avatar
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    Re: Ontario Electrician's in the house?

    Code (in the US) requires a disconnect at the pump and a breaker can be used as a disconnect if it is in a panel with 6 or less breakers. On a side note I suspect this is why some companies make a 6 and 8 breaker version of the same panel with the only difference being a plastic tab that prevents 2 breakers from being inserted.
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    Re: Ontario Electrician's in the house?

    /\/\ What he said.

    The maintenance disconnect (NOT A SWITCH THEY ARE DIFFERENT) must be visible from the pump. The Mike Holt pdf that I referenced explains all of this per the US code.
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    Re: Ontario Electrician's in the house?

    Good info!! Upon review of the Omnilogic specs, I can confirm it has a 12 port subpanel. Although the Omni will be wall mounted above the pump, it seems this falls outside of the "maintenance disconnect" requirement. What are my options for a maintenance disconnect? Can I wire an emergency stop switch for the pump?

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    Re: Ontario Electrician's in the house?

    That would qualify as a maintenance disconnect in California as long as there are no more than 6 throws to disconnect all power.. I would ask your local building inspector.
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    Re: Ontario Electrician's in the house?

    Quote Originally Posted by Isaac-1 View Post
    I don't know about Ontario, but in the US running NM through conduit is a big no no, you should use THWN, or one of its cousins.
    Taking this information, I investigated on the ESA (Electrical Safety Authority) FAQs section (Electrical Code | EsaSafe) and found a response specific to the use of NMD90 wire in PVC conduit. The answer is as follows:
    Question
    Can NMD90 be installed in a buried PVC conduit?
    Answer
    No. The Code classifies a buried raceway as a wet location. NMD90 is suitable for use in dry or damp locations only. Wires and cables installed in buried raceways shall be suitable for wet locations and will contain the letter "W" in the type designation. An example is NMWU cable.


    Rules 12-902 and 12-928.


    Ontario Electrical Safety Code 25th Edition/2012

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    Re: Ontario Electrician's in the house?

    I also searched for references for THWN on the ESA site bud did no turn anything up. So I took to Google and found the following
    detail:
    • When used as Type THHN, conductor is suitable for use in dry locations at temperatures not to exceed 90C
    • When used as Type THWN-2*, conductor is suitable for use in wet or dry locationsat temperatures not to exceed 90C or not to exceed 75C when exposed to oil or coolant.

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    Re: Ontario Electrician's in the house?

    THWN-2 is the replacement for THWN, prior to that 25-30 years ago there was TW wire, many of these new wires carry multiple ratings as the new rating supersedes the old one, so if you look at the casing it may be rated THWN-2, THWN, TW, MTW, etc..

    Ike

    p.s. you often run into something similar with multi-conducter rubber cord (outdoor extension cord, etc.), in the electrical trade this is often referred to as SO cord, even though plain SO has probably not been made in years, instead you end up with SOOW, SJOOW, SEOW, STOW, etc.
    Indoor 20x40 35,000 gallon vinyl pool with 1.5 HP 2 speed Jandy FloPro pump, Hayward EC75 Perflex DE filter, 11 4x12 Techno-Solis solar panels w/ Aquasolar controller, Aquabot Turbo T Robot Cleaner. Also LMI metering chlorine dispenser pump and HotSpring Jetsetter
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