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Thread: Autopilot operation confirmation.

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    Autopilot operation confirmation.

    If I have my pump type set to one-speed, will I only get chlorine when the pump is programmed to turn on? I did not read this dependency in the manual, but it appears to work this way.

    It only took me three weeks of no chlorine, except in boost mode, to figure this out if it is true.

    thanks,
    dave
    15,500 gal, inground gunite pool with 7 ft spa, 2 speed pump 2hp/.33hp, 3/4 hp booster pump, Intermatic P1353 timer, AutoPilot SC-48, Sand filter with ZeoBest, Heater, that I never use . . .

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Autopilot operation confirmation.

    Yes, if the pump type is set to single speed, then the AutoPilot shuts down when it thinks the pump is off. If you set the pump to two speed the AutoPilot will produce chlorine regardless of which speed it thinks the pump is running at.

    If you tell the AutoPilot that you have a one speed pump, then it thinks that it is turning the pump on and off. Since it is dangerous to run the cell when the pump is off, it turns the cell off any time the pump relay is turned off.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
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    Re: Autopilot operation confirmation.

    OK then that explains why I've not had chlorine for the last two weeks.

    It does sound that if I set it to two-speed pump, then I can get Autopilot to control the pump and keep chlorinating when it is on, even if the it has it's pump turned off?

    If this works, then I can use the Autopilot to control my peristaltic pump for acid injection. Which is what I was trying to get before.

    dave
    15,500 gal, inground gunite pool with 7 ft spa, 2 speed pump 2hp/.33hp, 3/4 hp booster pump, Intermatic P1353 timer, AutoPilot SC-48, Sand filter with ZeoBest, Heater, that I never use . . .

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Autopilot operation confirmation.

    If you tell the AutoPilot that it has a two speed pump, it thinks that the pump is always on, and it has control over the pump speed. Since the cell will work even when the pump is on low, it doesn't ever disable the cell.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    Re: Autopilot operation confirmation.

    Quote Originally Posted by lovingHDTV
    If this works, then I can use the Autopilot to control my peristaltic pump for acid injection. Which is what I was trying to get before.

    dave

    I may be totally off here, but I think you have to choose between controlling the pool pump or the acid feed pump from the pool pilot. It seems to be one or the other. It can't be both. At least that's what I understand from the directions. Unless you are using the optional relay.

    I've connected my pool pilot to a timer, and the acid pump is controlled by the pool pilot. I did not incorporate the optional relay into the system. I figured the PP should only be running while the pump is on anyway, so I have the pool pump and the PP on the load of the timer. When it needs acid, then the PP turns on the acid feed pump.
    18' x 54" Round AG 7500 gallon w/small prefab 2-piece fandeck
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    Re: Autopilot operation confirmation.

    Lazyman, I believe that lovingHDTV is using an AutoPilot Digital model, not the Total Control System. The Digital model does not have an option for controlling an acid pump. However, he has "tricked" it into controlling the acid pump (using simple timing, not PH sensing) by telling it that the acid pump is a two speed main pump.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    Re: Autopilot operation confirmation.

    Quote Originally Posted by JasonLion
    Lazyman, I believe that lovingHDTV is using an AutoPilot Digital model, not the Total Control System. The Digital model does not have an option for controlling an acid pump. However, he has "tricked" it into controlling the acid pump (using simple timing, not PH sensing) by telling it that the acid pump is a two speed main pump.
    Exactly.
    15,500 gal, inground gunite pool with 7 ft spa, 2 speed pump 2hp/.33hp, 3/4 hp booster pump, Intermatic P1353 timer, AutoPilot SC-48, Sand filter with ZeoBest, Heater, that I never use . . .

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    Re: Autopilot operation confirmation.

    Oops, sorry. Carry on gentlemen.

    lol
    18' x 54" Round AG 7500 gallon w/small prefab 2-piece fandeck
    Waterways 200sf Cartridge Filter, 1.5 hp 2-speed pump. 2" pvc piping
    Pool Pilot Total Control swg w/acid tank feeder
    Pool Rover Jr., BBB, TF 100 test kit

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    Re: Autopilot operation confirmation.

    About the only way you can do this is to have the main filter pump controlled externally, the Digital wired to the same relay the pump is, then program the Digital for two speed pump.
    Connect the acid pump to terminals # 5 and # 6. The acid pump MUST be of the type that has a feed rate control (adjustable output control dial).
    Then, program the Digital's High speed for when you want to energize the acid pump. The Low speed will shut the acid pump off.
    The cell will generate chlorine during the whole time that the Digital is energized.

    What's important is that you manual adjust the Pool Pilot Output % setting, and the acid pump's feed rate control setting so that they are both maintained to your desired levels.

    BE CAREFUL OF THE VOLTAGE BETWEEN THEFILTER PUMP, THE DIGITAL, AND THE ACID PUMP. THESE MUST ALL BE THE SAME!

    Jason, as you're familiar with our Pool Pilot products, check my work to see if there's anything that may cause a problem....
    Sean Assam - Sean@teamhorner.com
    National Accounts and Commercial Products Manager
    AquaCal Heat Pumps www.aquacal.com
    AutoPilot Salt Chlorine Generators www.autopilot.com

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    Re: Autopilot operation confirmation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Poolsean
    About the only way you can do this is to have the main filter pump controlled externally, the Digital wired to the same relay the pump is, then program the Digital for two speed pump.
    Connect the acid pump to terminals # 5 and # 6. The acid pump MUST be of the type that has a feed rate control (adjustable output control dial).
    Then, program the Digital's High speed for when you want to energize the acid pump. The Low speed will shut the acid pump off.
    The cell will generate chlorine during the whole time that the Digital is energized.

    What's important is that you manual adjust the Pool Pilot Output % setting, and the acid pump's feed rate control setting so that they are both maintained to your desired levels.

    BE CAREFUL OF THE VOLTAGE BETWEEN THEFILTER PUMP, THE DIGITAL, AND THE ACID PUMP. THESE MUST ALL BE THE SAME!

    Jason, as you're familiar with our Pool Pilot products, check my work to see if there's anything that may cause a problem....
    This sounds like what I want. I currently have my AutoPilot setup with 'external timer'. So both speeds on my pump are controlled by the external timer. So if I change my AutoPilot from 'external timer' to two-speed pump, I can then use the pump timer programs to turn on/off the acid pump. The acid pump is set to deliver 28ml/min of acid. I plan on diluting the acid to a 1-1 or 1-2 solution of water in my five gallon storage container.

    I know that I need 1 quart of acid per week, based on about 2 years of testing data. I'll of course continue to test and adjust as needed.

    I do need to check that I have the AutoPilot setup as 110v, and not 220v as my acid pump is 110v.

    thanks for the help,
    dave
    15,500 gal, inground gunite pool with 7 ft spa, 2 speed pump 2hp/.33hp, 3/4 hp booster pump, Intermatic P1353 timer, AutoPilot SC-48, Sand filter with ZeoBest, Heater, that I never use . . .

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    Re: Autopilot operation confirmation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Poolsean
    Be careful of the voltage between the filter pump, the digital, and the acid pump. These must all be the same!
    Sean, I followed everything you said except this. I don't know of any fundamental reason why the voltages need to match. As long as everything is wired correctly, and properly grounded and bonded, it is possible to use mixed voltages on the equipment pad. If the pump relay is setup the same way that automation systems setup their relays, so that the high voltage contacts on the relay are completely independent of the rest of the system, it ought to be possible to use a mixture of voltages.

    Of course, the AutoPilot manuals does not document what the exact specifications of the pump relay are, nor does the manual provide a true circuit diagram. So there is no way to verify that a non-matching voltage is allowed on the AutoPilot pump relay, or what the correct wiring would be in that situation.

    Reading through various AutoPilot manuals, there are cautions in a few places that the device connected to the pump relay must match the voltage of the AutoPilot control unit, though I didn't see that in the manual for the Digital unit. Of course, even if we accept that limitation, there is nothing the requires the pump to be at that same voltage, given that the pump is being powered externally, and not through the AutoPilot unit.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    Re: Autopilot operation confirmation.

    Quote Originally Posted by JasonLion
    Quote Originally Posted by Poolsean
    Be careful of the voltage between the filter pump, the digital, and the acid pump. These must all be the same!
    Sean, I followed everything you said except this. I don't know of any fundamental reason why the voltages need to match. As long as everything is wired correctly, and properly grounded and bonded, it is possible to use mixed voltages on the equipment pad. If the pump relay is setup the same way that automation systems setup their relays, so that the high voltage contacts on the relay are completely independent of the rest of the system, it ought to be possible to use a mixture of voltages.

    Of course, the AutoPilot manuals does not document what the exact specifications of the pump relay are, nor does the manual provide a true circuit diagram. So there is no way to verify that a non-matching voltage is allowed on the AutoPilot pump relay, or what the correct wiring would be in that situation.

    Reading through various AutoPilot manuals, there are cautions in a few places that the device connected to the pump relay must match the voltage of the AutoPilot control unit, though I didn't see that in the manual for the Digital unit. Of course, even if we accept that limitation, there is nothing the requires the pump to be at that same voltage, given that the pump is being powered externally, and not through the AutoPilot unit.
    My Autopilot is configured for 220V as it is now. I just looked at the unit and the pool pump relay is just a standard dpdt relay hooked between terminals 3 & 5, and 4 & 6.

    Unfortunately there is no common wire pulled from the breaker box to the pool timer, as there was no need for 110v at the time it was installed. So I guess I need to pull a common, from the breaker box to the Autopilot. I can then get a "true" 110v supply. I could cheat and use ground and one leg, but I think I'll look into pulling the common wire first. The conduit is 3/4" and only has 3 wires in it, I should be able to fit a 4th.

    thank again everyone,
    dave
    15,500 gal, inground gunite pool with 7 ft spa, 2 speed pump 2hp/.33hp, 3/4 hp booster pump, Intermatic P1353 timer, AutoPilot SC-48, Sand filter with ZeoBest, Heater, that I never use . . .

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    Re: Autopilot operation confirmation.

    I was on the track that since the Pool Pilot will be wired to the same connection points as the filter pump, they must match. And since the Acid pump will be wired through the Digital, that too should match. I was not thinking of bringing in a separate 110 line dedicated for the acid pump.
    However, if the pump and Pool Pilot are both 220 volts, you can bring a 110 volt line to terminals 3 and 4, then the power out of the relay on terminals 5 and 6 will be 110 volts also.
    In this case, you can mix the voltages.
    THIS IS NOT THE CASE IF YOU HAVE A 75003, Digital control unit for the Total Control Model.
    Sean Assam - Sean@teamhorner.com
    National Accounts and Commercial Products Manager
    AquaCal Heat Pumps www.aquacal.com
    AutoPilot Salt Chlorine Generators www.autopilot.com

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    Re: Autopilot operation confirmation.

    That makes sense. It can be done, just don't underestimate the possible complexity of "wired correctly". To elaborate a little for people who are half way following the conversation:

    You don't want to wire a 115 volt device on one leg of 230 volt circuit. You need to have a separate set of conductors run from an 115 volt breaker. If you do try to use one leg of a 230 volt circuit you will both create a potentially hazardous situation and you will trip a GFCI breaker.

    So mixing voltages can be done, except for the Total Control Model, but you really need to know what you are doing.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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